Indiana DUI Checkpoint Refusal Info

[Route 45]

That is not the purpose of a sobriety checkpoint, and shenanigans like that is what will ultimately get them tossed.

I usually don't have much of a problem with DUI checkpoints, but I certainly do have a problem with them when they become fishing expeditions.

Reading of the widespread antics of the Elkhart PD, I certainly wouldn't want to find myself at one of their checkpoints.

 

[VUPDblue]

Again no stats anywhere that says this works. I've never been in an Indiana check point. In Alabama they were straight up intrusive and always ran your info. In New Mexico they commonly had them on the interstate.

I think having officers stationed visibly around parking areas for parties and celebrations would be more effective.

Highly publicized still more than likely doesn't reach the drunk driver. Getting them at the check point didn't stop them from driving drunk to that point. I have been back in Indiana for 3 years and never heard of one being publicized so i see no deterrence.

Well actually there are stats, though they aren't probably as specific as you are wanting. Any jurisdiction that keeps stats on aggressive DUI enforcement will also show a reduction in fatality/SBI crashes as well as PI crashes where alcohol is involved. There's been many a study done on the correlation between DUI enforcement and crash data.

That all said, it's next to impossible to measure deterrence because there is no way to determine how many people DIDN'T do something unless their apprehension was a guarantee in the first place.

 

[VUPDblue]

I usually don't have much of a problem with DUI checkpoints, but I certainly do have a problem with them when they become fishing expeditions.

Reading of the widespread antics of the Elkhart PD, I certainly wouldn't want to find myself at one of their checkpoints.

I hate them because I feel they're an inefficient use of resources. MADD and IACP both LOVE checkpoints but like we discussed above, it's next to impossible to measure specific deterrence. If you take 15-20 people to man a checkpoint, you'll probably net less than 10 DUI arrests in a 6 hour period. If you take those same 15-20 people and put them out aggressively hunting impaired drivers on a weekend night, I'd bet you a cheeseburger that they'd get at least 20 DUI arrests.

 

[Dead Duck]

Sorry for your loss. Losing people sucks. I don't think this is the answer anymore than prohibition or mandatory interlock devices on every vehicle. I don't want to marginalize your pain or grief.

I remember in our town where I grew up they would display one of the latest drunk driver wrecks (the worst ones) at a few of the busy corner gas stations to see if it would discourage DWIs. I don't know what impact it made if any. Other than standing in bar parking lots and beating the **** out of drunks trying to start their cars, I just don't know what else would work. I've had a long history of taking people's keys but that gets old.

Like I said earlier, checkpoints in super populated places like CA stopped a crap load of drunks. Some weekends ended with a drunk ramming into the checkpoint itself or the cars waiting in line because they are drawn to the pretty lights like a moth to the flame. Every time I've seen drunks crash (quite a few) there aren't any brakes used or skidding at all.

They don't deserve all the chances the courts keep giving them. But somehow they keep getting let out and get their driving privileges back. And now days they are calling it a disease? What like they caught it and they can't help themselves? BS!

Alcoholism sucks. Sure it's tearing families apart. I don't even care anymore. Get fixed or don't get fixed. Whatever. But don't take down the rest of us.

 

[Ggreen]

Well actually there are stats, though they aren't probably as specific as you are wanting. Any jurisdiction that keeps stats on aggressive DUI enforcement will also show a reduction in fatality/SBI crashes as well as PI crashes where alcohol is involved. There's been many a study done on the correlation between DUI enforcement and crash data.

That all said, it's next to impossible to measure deterrence because there is no way to determine how many people DIDN'T do something unless their apprehension was a guarantee in the first place.

That's my point. Having officers on patrol aggressively going for distracted/ drunk drivers will always work better than a checkpoint. Just not as good for photo ops. I'm fine with aggressive enforcement and application of force, where and when warranted. Blanket stop and frisk style tactics are not effective. I'm not anti police.

 

[VUPDblue]

That's my point. Having officers on patrol aggressively going for distracted/ drunk drivers will always work better than a checkpoint. Just not as good for photo ops. I'm fine with aggressive enforcement and application of force, where and when warranted. Blanket stop and frisk style tactics are not effective. I'm not anti police.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. I'm not in favor of checkpoints because I see them as a waste of resources. I have zero issue with their legality, I just think the money and effort would be better spent elsewhere.

What I do understand though, is that deterrence is part of the larger DUI eradication model and it's just something that has to go along with independent patrol enforcement. In my neck of the woods, we have to have checkpoints with a given frequency as part of the overall DUI enforcement grant money given to us by the feds. If I were the one making the calls, I would spend it on more patrol, but that's just me...

 

[VUPDblue]

I will have made somewhere around 130 DUI arrests in 2018 and exactly ONE of them came from a checkpoint.

 

[Mgderf]

I'm sorry. I simply do not possess an adequate supply of popcorn to remain in this thread.

 

[hoosierdoc]

I will have made somewhere around 130 DUI arrests in 2018 and exactly ONE of them came from a checkpoint.

What percentage of your patrol time is doing checkpoint work?

that’s a lot of dui arrests. Nearly one a shift? Are you still working nights? Is it usually alcohol or just “impaired” from who knows what cocktail?
i am full of questions

 

[MrsGungho]

Again no stats anywhere that says this works. I've never been in an Indiana check point. In Alabama they were straight up intrusive and always ran your info. In New Mexico they commonly had them on the interstate.

I think having officers stationed visibly around parking areas for parties and celebrations would be more effective.

Highly publicized still more than likely doesn't reach the drunk driver. Getting them at the check point didn't stop them from driving drunk to that point. I have been back in Indiana for 3 years and never heard of one being publicized so i see no deterrence.

I was the lucky draw at a checkpoint this past summer in Marion County, Beech Grove on Emerson Ave., to be exact. They did not check every vehicle. They would pull 2 or 3 over at a time, letting the rest of traffic move on by. when those 2 or 3 were gone, they would pull the next 2 or 3. My license was handed to the officer, he looked at it, asked me if I had anything to drink, if I knew about the checkpoint ahead of time, instructed me on how to exit the parking lot and get back to the street I had been on and let me go. Less than a minute of my time.
If that minute of my time meant a possibility of getting a drunk off the street, then it was worth it.
No intrusion, no unwarranted checks, etc. He never ran my license looking for anything else. A quick glance to make sure it was me... that's it. He never leaned down into my car to smell my breath, never rude, never out of line. Professional as he could get. I actually thanked him for his time.
To some this may be the end all be all of rights violations. to me, it's the possibility that one person may make it home alive because a drunk was taken off the street.

 

[ghuns]

...If that minute of my time meant a possibility of getting a drunk off the street, then it was worth it.

The, "if it saves just one life", logic is the slipperiest of slippery slopes.

 

[VUPDblue]

What percentage of your patrol time is doing checkpoint work?

that’s a lot of dui arrests. Nearly one a shift? Are you still working nights? Is it usually alcohol or just “impaired” from who knows what cocktail?
i am full of questions

I think I only worked 2 or 3 checkpoints this year, I try my best to get out of going to them. I work afternoons and work a lot of the “drive sober or get pulled over” grant OT at night. I’m also on call in the early mornings for SBI/Fatal crashes. Add all that up and 130 isn’t a lot. Our full time DUI unit guys do 300+ annually.

the lions share of arrests are alcohol only but drugs are making their way into the spotlight.

 

[churchmouse]

The, "if it saves just one life", logic is the slipperiest of slippery slopes.

Truth. But in the fact that so many are putting others at risk is also a violation of my rights. It can be looked at this way. Not saying you are wrong just saying how what and when can we put idiots in check. My tolerance for alcohol/drug related bravo sierra is in the negative area. Especially repeat offenders. Just no use for the idiocy. What is to be done.

Fair question.

 

[VUPDblue]

Truth. But in the fact that so many are putting others at risk is also a violation of my rights. It can be looked at this way. Not saying you are wrong just saying how what and when can we put idiots in check. My tolerance for alcohol/drug related bravo sierra is in the negative area. Especially repeat offenders. Just no use for the idiocy. What is to be done.

Fair question.

Aggressive enforcement and stiff penalties.

 

[HoughMade]

An observation and a question.

In 31 years of driving, the last 23 in NWI, I have never encountered a checkpoint.

How many people who preach he Ziploc bag, never roll down he window gospel have ever actually executed this plan in real life?

Just curious.

 

[ghuns]

...In 31 years of driving, the last 23 in NWI, I have never encountered a checkpoint...

So you're clearly avoiding them.

What have you got to hide?

 

[gregkl]

An observation and a question.

In 31 years of driving, the last 23 in NWI, I have never encountered a checkpoint.

How many people who preach he Ziploc bag, never roll down he window gospel have ever actually executed this plan in real life?

Just curious.

Being much older than Mr. Hough , I have well over a 1,500,000 miles driving and 44 years on the road and have never been through a checkpoint. I'm guessing they are mostly set up past my bedtime?

I can assure you though, that if I did, I would hand him the documentation he asks for, comply and be on my way. That's the nice thing about not having anything to hide. It's a real stress reliever!

 

[gregkl]

On that note you could always throw a donut out the window. That might distract them enough to get a running start.

I couldn't rep you but I would have! lol.

 

[jagee]

At least once or twice a year there is a checkpoint on a major road through Lawrence relatively close to a bar I used to frequent. People would call the bar to give a warning to patrons to not go that way. Everyone knew how to go around and not be bothered by the checkpoint...no matter how many they had.

Seems like that is probably common practice.

 

[Libertarian01]

Truth. But in the fact that so many are putting others at risk is also a violation of my rights. It can be looked at this way. Not saying you are wrong just saying how what and when can we put idiots in check. My tolerance for alcohol/drug related bravo sierra is in the negative area. Especially repeat offenders. Just no use for the idiocy. What is to be done.

Fair question.

Aggressive enforcement and stiff penalties.

I believe it would have much more to do with severe penalties than necessarily enforcement. I think this because fear of something is a greater motivator than the actual reality of probabilities of getting caught.

If we said first offense OWI is minimum three (3) monthes in jail and license suspended one (1) year - oh my!

If we said second offense is minimum six (6) monthes in jail, $1k fine, license suspended three (3) years - well well!

And so on.

People would need to be really, really afraid of driving drunk. I am not saying impaired, but specifically alcohol or illegal drugs.

We would still have drunk drivers. There are folks out there who just do not care about repercussions or consequences. However, for the vast majority of folks the fear of getting caught even once, the casual drinkers who just get stupid on occasion, they would be far more likely to UBER home than drive home due to fear of getting caught.

Just my .

Regards,

Doug