Is it ok to sell now, or am I a gouger?

[shibumiseeker]

Well when folks sit on their thumbs during good times because they refuse to spend the money to generate a decent reserve and suddenly find the shelves are empty when they want to hit the range.....well, that's when the little sissy's cry and moan. Pay no heed sir.

Agreed completely. I expect it of FB, but before last time I never would have expected it from some of the folks I saw it from here. This place has a very different mix of folks now than a few years ago, so I want to see where people are drawing that line.

i have complex feelings on the matter. If it’s a critical life or death need that is impossible or difficult to obtain when it is not a time of crisis and someone knows it and gouges my line is very different than when it is not a crucial supply.

 

[cosermann]

Things are worth what they're worth at any given time assuming the market is somewhat free. Selling under current conditions provides additional "time and place utility" which is a real thing that has value reflected in potentially higher pricing since such items are more difficult to obtain currently.

I don't have a problem with it.

(Exploiting a buyer's ignorance is a different issue, I think.)

 

[shibumiseeker]

Things are worth what they're worth at any given time assuming the market is somewhat free. Selling under current conditions provides additional "time and place utility" which is a real thing that has value reflected in potentially higher pricing since such items are more difficult to obtain currently.

I don't have a problem with it.

(Exploiting a buyer's ignorance is a different issue, I think.)

Hmm. I am not sure where I stand on that. Ignorance because of deception certainly. But ignorance for something I have had an opportunity to correct before buying but fail to do so? I'm less certain. It has never been my style to take advantage of people regardless. When I sell something I try to point out everything I know about it, but ultimately if someone pays 2x what something is worth out of ignorance then their loss if I wasn't trying to deceive them.

I also have less tolerance for people who try to corner the market. Buying everything so you can use your leverage to charge whatever you want is reprehensible to me. If it's not a critical item then as far as I am concerned it just means that I will remember that person or company.

Last time shortages rolled around I sold a brick of .22lr to a gun group member, at my cost, who had some sob story about wanting to take his nephew out shooting blah blah blah. I found out later that he had turned around and sold that same brick a week later on gunbroker for 8x what he bought it from me. Legal? Sure. But not honorable, and that person is someone who will never get anything from me.

 

[4651feeder]

If this were the first time that rolled around unexpectedly, then maybe you'd be a gouger. But it ain't, get what you can for it with clear mind.

I wake up every morning now thinking it's possible that whatever I choose to sell today in this category, may not be available tomorrow and honestly that's diminished a desire to sell even items that I currently have no need for.

 

[JeepHammer]

I let it go 5 pages before I answered...

Since the OP is asking the question *IF* he's being a gouger (unwarranted profiteering) he has an ethical compass.
I have to applaud that since so many these days simply don't.

The OP shouldn't expect new market price, simply because the primers aren't brand new stock (what's called 'New/Old Stock, or NOS).
Age, and potential failure rate should be taken into consideration.

Storage should also be taken into consideration, for example, my primers are kept in temp & humidity controlled environment that according to manufacturers is *Supposed* to be nearly "Ideal"...
If they were kept in the home, that's a plus, less so if it was a garage, even less if they weren't stored in humidity sealed containers, etc.
Primers DO degrade simply with time, it's the nature of the highly reactive chemicals used to manufacture them.

I've had 10 year old primers do just fine, I've also had some brands have a 10% or more failure rate stored exactly the same way...
I *Usually* had anywhere fromnow100k to 30k-40k stored since that's what I shot in a year,
But after the last big shortage (Thanks Homeland Security ) I'm keeping more on hand for my own loads.
This is a substantial INVESTMENT, so I simply did the low oxygen, low moisture content storage thing to safeguard that investment,
While others didn't go through finding someplace they could store at low oxygen levels and low humidity...

I would suggest taking at least 10% off current retail prices for short term storage under good conditions,
More for long term storage or stored under less than 'Ideal' conditions.

When I sell brass, it's a 100% money back guarantee in the first 3 months.
I'm not going to wait forever, but a guy *Should* know if he is happy with the product in 90 days or not.
I will refund even if the buyer didn't like the color of the box, no BS warranty...
In the last 20 odd years, I've had two packages returned, didn't even ask why, just refunded.

Not sure the OP wants to refund money, but it's a way to stand behind what you are selling that no one can argue with...

 

[portercounty]

I think 'gouging' is a relative term. Making a small profit off of something because others didn't think ahead like you did is how the market works. Marking things up double or triple or more from their original cost is a whole different ball-game. Even then though, some people will argue that if the market allows it, go for it. Every situation is different though.

The reason people are selling is an unknown for people viewing the sale though, so personally I think it's unfair to judge anyone for selling at any prices these days. Maybe someone is trying to sell something for double MSRP because stores are out and he thinks he can get it. Maybe this pandemic also left him jobless. If that's the case, I hope someone wants what he has and pays him. I just know it won't be me.

 

[bwframe]

This site was much newer when the last noticeable ammo/component shortage came to be. The INGO classifieds were a fairly new thing at that time, composed of members who pretty much were all forum contributors. Everyone knew everyone else, for the most part. INGO was growing by leaps and bounds as word got around about the only local site for Indiana gun owners.

After SandyHook, INGO had a huge influx of nameless faceless folks whose only care for INGO was to market their box store, gun store, wherever "finds" to a crowd desperate for ammo and components at ANY price.

With pretty easy access to the INGO classifieds, the word got around the web that INGO was the place to be if you were a Hoosier with a back door source to be the first to ammo shipments. A lot of much desired ammo never made to store shelves before being gobbled up by inside staff.

The prices were often doubled and more for ammo that was supposed to be on the shelf at Walmart, but never made it there.

There was a pretty good push back then to not support the gougers, but it only worked so well. Good people supported the gougers because there was no choice other than not shoot.

 

[Expat]

I remember there were even a few of the flippers trying to argue they were providing a public service by buying up all the .22 ammo before it hit the shelves and then supplying it to us here.

 

[churchmouse]

I have a very deep disdain for carpet baggers.

 

[hoosierdaddy1976]

I agree that cornering the market, flipping, etc. is an a-hole move. That's not the case with the OP. If I bought an SKS or a Mosin when they were plentiful and cheap, am I a gouger for selling them at today's prices?

 

[bwframe]

Not a thing wrong with selling items for profit. That is how business works. No one should be ashamed of making a profit.

It's a different story to specifically buy a difficult to acquire product to knowingly sell for 100% profit (or more) to what is supposed to be your local friends.

 

[mechmc17]

This site was much newer when the last noticeable ammo/component shortage came to be. The INGO classifieds were a fairly new thing at that time, composed of members who pretty much were all forum contributors. Everyone knew everyone else, for the most part. INGO was growing by leaps and bounds as word got around about the only local site for Indiana gun owners.

After SandyHook, INGO had a huge influx of nameless faceless folks whose only care for INGO was to market their box store, gun store, wherever "finds" to a crowd desperate for ammo and components at ANY price.

With pretty easy access to the INGO classifieds, the word got around the web that INGO was the place to be if you were a Hoosier with a back door source to be the first to ammo shipments. A lot of much desired ammo never made to store shelves before being gobbled up by inside staff.

The prices were often doubled and more for ammo that was supposed to be on the shelf at Walmart, but never made it there.

There was a pretty good push back then to not support the gougers, but it only worked so well. Good people supported the gougers because there was no choice other than not shoot.

Agree completely with this.

I only consider it gouging when someone goes to extreme lengths to buy up all the supply or uses connections/influence to buy up large amounts before the public can access the product. In that case, the person is worsening the shortage and profiting from anti-market activity.

Individuals who store up product in times of plenty and release it to the market during a shortage are doing the opposite. They are helping to balance availability of product across time, so people who really need it will be able to find it. This type of activity, where the seller is not using undue influence or access to artificially cause shortages, but is instead helping to relieve the shortage, is a good thing.

 

[shibumiseeker]

I agree that cornering the market, flipping, etc. is an a-hole move. That's not the case with the OP. If I bought an SKS or a Mosin when they were plentiful and cheap, am I a gouger for selling them at today's prices?

Oh gawd, I don't even want to think of that. I bought numerous SKS back in the early 90s when they were being imported and dumped on the market for $50-60 each. Over the years I sold all of them off because I really don't care for them. Kicking myself now for hanging on to them. I think the most I ever sold one for was $150.

At least I have a few Mosin and 440 round cans tucked away :-)

 

[shibumiseeker]

Not a thing wrong with selling items for profit. That is how business works. No one should be ashamed of making a profit.

It's a different story to specifically buy a difficult to acquire product to knowingly sell for 100% profit (or more) to what is supposed to be your local friends.

No disagreement here.

The thing is, everyone is suddenly your "friend" when you have something they want. I don't care for "friends" like that either.
(to be clear, I have NEVER taken advantage of a friend, I usually either sell something to them at less than I might get otherwise, or just give it to them outright)

 

[shibumiseeker]

Agree completely with this.

I only consider it gouging when someone goes to extreme lengths to buy up all the supply or uses connections/influence to buy up large amounts before the public can access the product. In that case, the person is worsening the shortage and profiting from anti-market activity.

Individuals who store up product in times of plenty and release it to the market during a shortage are doing the opposite. They are helping to balance availability of product across time, so people who really need it will be able to find it. This type of activity, where the seller is not using undue influence or access to artificially cause shortages, but is instead helping to relieve the shortage, is a good thing.

This is the exact argument myself (and I was NOT selling anything) and a few others were trying to make last time, only to be shouted down by a small (but not as small as I would have thought) but very vocal crowd who insisted that they deserved to be able to buy privately held stock at whatever price "they" thought was fair. I ended up being pretty disgusted by both the flippers (your first group), and the group I mentioned.

Part of the reason I posted this in the survival forum is because this is a trope we see again and again during any crisis.

On the neighborhood scale you have the neighbor who would have never helped you out suddenly demand you share your supplies during an extended blackout because "we're neighbors." On the national scale you have the government (ours included) who seizes privately owned material or industry "for the common good."

 

[soupergenius]

always take the money

Edited to add: I'm not planning on selling any of my stock, this is a philosophical question/muse.


Soooo, I'm sitting on many, many hundreds of thousands of primers. All bought when they were cheaper than shortage prices and readily available over the last decade. My buying them did not deprive anyone else of primers.


With some exceptions where I lucked on a smashing good sale and bought all I could afford at the time, I typically paid the going rate for them, just the going rate when they were plentiful.


If I were to sell some now for what I paid for them, adjusted for inflation and accounting for shipping and hazmat, I would have to charge a little more than the current listed prices in the major suppliers - all of whom seem to be out of stock.


In the meantime, had I stuck that money in an interest bearing account, it would have been earning me money, and if I'd put it in something that say, earned 3% interest, I'd have to charge a little more just to break even for my having taken the risk of putting my money in primers, powder, and bullets instead of a safe bank account.


So say a sleeve of 5k primers costs $158 plus $35 shipping and hazmat from Graf's or the like (though who pays hazmat on only one sleeve?) and I charged $200 for a sleeve of primers for a face to face transaction, which would be about how much they are worth to me given what I paid, inflation, lack of my having use of my money for the last few years, and not earning any interest on it, would I be price gouging? Or if I decided to charge $220 a sleeve so my interest made on my money would be more like 6-7%? Is that fair?


This is not a thinly veiled ad to sell my stock, I'm genuinely curious what people think. Yes, I do have lots and lots of primers and powder, but the last time we had a major shortage, several long time members here took a lot of heat for trying to recoup some of their investment in material they bought when there was no shortage, thus not depriving anyone of the opportunity to buy commercially. There were people who would sell only to watch someone turn around and sell that same material on some of the national gun sites for 2-5 times what was advertised here.


In the meantime, I have encouraged people to stock up when it was cheap the last few years and now prices are going up again. Should I risk the angry mob who says I should sell them stuff at a loss to me? Because last time there were an awful lot of gun people who claimed to be all about freedom and free market who were doing just that.

I just put some ammo on armslist. I make money the American way, capitalizing on the misfortune of others.

 

[churchmouse]

I just put some ammo on armslist. I make money the American way, capitalizing on the misfortune of others.

So you are a carpet bagger then.....

Hey smoke-em if you got-em but man.

 

[1775usmarine]

So you are a carpet bagger then.....

Hey smoke-em if you got-em but man.

Obviously those who are a true part of what INGO means and the have interacted with others in FTF meetings other than to sell or trade wouldn't take advantage of other members. If someone needed bullets, brass or primers and I could afford to part with some of my stash for an even trade would be at pre panic prices.

 

[Megasaki]

Sell Mortimer Sell. Be a capitalist. Its fun. Make some $. The old saying was " buy low, sell high".

 

[223 Gunner]

So you are a carpet bagger then.....

Hey smoke-em if you got-em but man.

He's certainly not a "runner" with 46 posts since 2014, unless he is upping his post count to sell in the classifieds.