Japan Earthquake and other observations

[Osobuco]

The people on this thread posting that it is "karma" that this happened to Japan and the others posting smart a$$ remarks that are uncaring and incompassionate -I have to ask you have any of you ever been to japan???? I have. It is an amazing place with friendly people. In fact it is one of the few countries an American can go to these days and feel welcome since most of the world hates us. Any of you been to France lately - I have and 50% of them treat americans like crap.

The Japanese are one of our strongest allies and I pray they come out of this as best they can and I ceratainly hope a lot of my tax dollars go to helping them.

Someone said this was karma for what the Japanese did in WW2. Well what about what the US did with slavery?? What about what we did to american indians - remember those blankets contaminated with smallpox?? The past is the past - learn from it and move on in a more noble manner - and be grateful that those events are in the past.

Also, my father in law fought the Japanese in WW2 and was wounded. he was also part of the US occupation after the war and although he never talks of the combat he does talk about how welcoming and gracious the locals were to him and the troops.
God bless Japan and the USA -

 

[trophy hunter]

this thread needs locked...

 

[ISHOOTHST'S]

so he says he didnt know what a tsunami was. what does he call it when he jumps in the tub? a drought?

 

[littletommy]

Also, my father in law fought the Japanese in WW2 and was wounded. he was also part of the US occupation after the war and although he never talks of the combat he does talk about how welcoming and gracious the locals were to him and the troops.
God bless Japan and the USA -

Yeah, two of my uncles fought the Japs, I'm still hatin em'. But thanks for trying to change my mind though!

Oh, and I don't go to any foreign countries anymore, they all suck.

 

[Arm America]

Well this thread has certainly been interesting.

No one is innocent if our ancestors decisions are held against us.

Japan has been a better Allie to America than most.

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

It's not about karma, it's about location. Japan has put a lot of intelligent, coordinated effort into planning and creating an infrastructure that can deal with seismic events. Yet despite all the cutting edge engineering and technology, they were pounded by mother nature. We do not have as much control over our environment, as we think we have. That is why we prep in case the worst happens to us, and lend a hand when it happens to others.

 

[longbow]

I go away for most of the day and this thread has really gone south......

Mods, feel free to trash this. I was just trying to see what the locals did or didn't do after this disaster hit.

 

[Jack Ryan]

I'm sure it's all the white American working man's fault.

Obama should be there any day bowing, apologising and giving them some money he borrowed and stuck on my account.

 

[littletommy]

I go away for most of the day and this thread has really gone south......

Mods, feel free to trash this. I was just trying to see what the locals did or didn't do after this disaster hit.

I don't see it. Your just getting differing opinions, nothing has gone South. Except Japan.

 

[E5RANGER375]

The people on this thread posting that it is "karma" that this happened to Japan and the others posting smart a$$ remarks that are uncaring and incompassionate -I have to ask you have any of you ever been to japan???? I have. It is an amazing place with friendly people. In fact it is one of the few countries an American can go to these days and feel welcome since most of the world hates us. Any of you been to France lately - I have and 50% of them treat americans like crap.

The Japanese are one of our strongest allies and I pray they come out of this as best they can and I ceratainly hope a lot of my tax dollars go to helping them.

Someone said this was karma for what the Japanese did in WW2. Well what about what the US did with slavery?? What about what we did to american indians - remember those blankets contaminated with smallpox?? The past is the past - learn from it and move on in a more noble manner - and be grateful that those events are in the past.

Also, my father in law fought the Japanese in WW2 and was wounded. he was also part of the US occupation after the war and although he never talks of the combat he does talk about how welcoming and gracious the locals were to him and the troops.
God bless Japan and the USA -

go outside of the tourist traps in japan, and you will find a very different and unfriendly japan to americans. everyone in the world is friendly to americans when they want our money.

this thread needs locked...

UHHHHH, no. threads dont get locked anymore. sorry that you have to listen to everyone else who doesnt agree with your opinion.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

go outside of the tourist traps in japan, and you will find a very different and unfriendly japan to americans. everyone in the world is friendly to americans when they want our money.

Ranger - you and I have had many civil conversations. I will try to continue that here. I do not know what time you have spent in Japan, but every experience I have had screams that the above is pure iguana . I lived in several different areas over a couple of years. From Takasaki in Gunma prefecture to Nagano (where the olympics were held) to Mito in Ibaraki (currently in the middle of the disaster) to Shin-Koiwa on the edge of Tokyo. I found Japan to be a remarkably warm and friendly place. Not perfect, mind you - I'm still an American with an American appetite for freedom! That said, I found it to be decidedly NOT unfriendly. And a couple of years there in several locations will tell you that I dang sure was not a tourist.

I would be the last to try and tell you what your experiences are/were. What I WILL say is that I have been there and done that. And my experience was the exact opposite of yours. It's been my experience that why you were there, and what you were doing can influence a) your perception and b) people's reaction. Perhaps that's a possible explanation for you seeing a different side of Japan than I did??? When were you there, where at, and what were you doing? I wonder if that won't explain the difference.

I am learning a great deal by watching the situation now. It's going to influence how I prepare things in the future. I wish I could go over there and help - but I would likely just be in the way. Knowing how the "villages" of 20k or so people are laid out along that coastline, though, I KNOW that the death toll has got to be higher than the 7-800 I'm hearing about now. If they were our sworn enemy - someone dedicated to eradicating us, then I might be able to be ambivalent about this. But they are not. Even if the worst you say is true - and they think of us as the "Ugly American" - they have still been extraordinarily faithful allies post WWII. We have several bases there, and they have voted with us at every turn. If we treat our allies as badly as some have suggested that we should - gloating over their demise, etc. then what does that say about us? Have we _really_ let the xenophobia strike that deep into our system? I'm not saying that they are perfect, they walk on water or something. I'm just saying that how we treat them (even assuming the worst that they are grudging allies) in a time of great distress and need says a lot about our character. Both individually and as a country.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Also, my father in law fought the Japanese in WW2 and was wounded. he was also part of the US occupation after the war and although he never talks of the combat he does talk about how welcoming and gracious the locals were to him and the troops.
God bless Japan and the USA -

Hmmm, I suppose getting their azz nuked back to the stone age would have something to do with that... When we dropped those two bombs the WHOLE WORLD was on their knees before us until they established the UN and castrated us. You guys realize that's exactly what the UN was for right? The socialist distribution of power to prevent any nation for having what they deemed to be "too much". The UN IS globalism/socialism and has de-industrialized (through things like NAFTA, etc) us to the point we are no longer a threat to their agenda. The UN is pure evil, completely anti-American/anti-freedom.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

I personally have ZERO use for the UN. They are way worse than worthless in most cases. I'm not sure what the hell that has to do with treating our allies (or even fellow human beings, for that matter) civilly and doing what we can for our allies (for the last 60 years) in their hour of need. Opinions vary - and everyone is entitled to theirs. I believe that if someone is a proven ally (at least for the last 60 years) , even if they were previously our enemy, that we should have the decency not to gloat at their misfortune. I don't think that speaks well of us or our character if we take that approach.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

I personally have ZERO use for the UN. They are way worse than worthless in most cases. I'm not sure what the hell that has to do with treating our allies (or even fellow human beings, for that matter) civilly and doing what we can for our allies (for the last 60 years) in their hour of need. Opinions vary - and everyone is entitled to theirs. I believe that if someone is a proven ally (at least for the last 60 years) , even if they were previously our enemy, that we should have the decency not to gloat at their misfortune. I don't think that speaks well of us or our character if we take that approach.

The question remains...were they our ally because they believe the same things we believe or because they were forced to be.....Sort of like when the king claims his subjects to be loyal...are they loyal because he is just or because he has a bigger army than them.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

So let's take this example... You are the biggest kid in the school and can kick anyone's ass. You are also pretty smart in some areas. I'm the puny smart kid. I thought I was big stuff in third grade, punched you, and you beat the crap out of me. I was FORCED to recognize that you could kick my butt. I did an about-face and said - "ok -I was out of line, I thought I was the shizzle, and I'm obviously not." Pragmatically, I decide to be your friend, since we could benefit from trading, studying together, etc. Our interests are probably %80 aligned anyway, since there are two other big bullies in the neighborhood. (Russia and China). You could use a friend and so could I. For 60 years, I mean all through school, we cooperate and help each other out. Even if it's a relationship of convenience it works for both of us.

The one day we're Juniors in high school, we're walking to school and I slip and fall on a patch of ice and hit my head on the pavement. BADLY. I'm bleeding pretty good, and likely going to need a doctor. Mother Nature caught up with me, but there I am, dazed and confused, trying to figure out what just hit me, and why the heck I'm bleeding.

Do you a) extend a hand and help me get my bearings back and get me to help b) laugh your ass off, THEN extend a hand c) laugh your ass off THEN tell me to pick my own self up and I deserve it since I attacked you back in the third grade d) kick me in the huevos while I am down and say "see - paybacks are a *****. Remember the third grade?".

You can answer the question. Remember that all of you other friends (and enemies) will notice how you act. Or don't. I think I remember a quote about adversity not creating character, but rather revealing it.

Anyway that's my two centavos on this one.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

So let's take this example... You are the biggest kid in the school and can kick anyone's ass. You are also pretty smart in some areas. I'm the puny smart kid. I thought I was big stuff in third grade, punched you, and you beat the crap out of me. I was FORCED to recognize that you could kick my butt. I did an about-face and said - "ok -I was out of line, I thought I was the shizzle, and I'm obviously not." Pragmatically, I decide to be your friend, since we could benefit from trading, studying together, etc. Our interests are probably %80 aligned anyway, since there are two other big bullies in the neighborhood. (Russia and China). You could use a friend and so could I. For 60 years, I mean all through school, we cooperate and help each other out. Even if it's a relationship of convenience it works for both of us.

The one day we're Juniors in high school, we're walking to school and I slip and fall on a patch of ice and hit my head on the pavement. BADLY. I'm bleeding pretty good, and likely going to need a doctor. Mother Nature caught up with me, but there I am, dazed and confused, trying to figure out what just hit me, and why the heck I'm bleeding.

Do you a) extend a hand and help me get my bearings back and get me to help b) laugh your ass off, THEN extend a hand c) laugh your ass off THEN tell me to pick my own self up and I deserve it since I attacked you back in the third grade d) kick me in the huevos while I am down and say "see - paybacks are a *****. Remember the third grade?".

You can answer the question. Remember that all of you other friends (and enemies) will notice how you act. Or don't. I think I remember a quote about adversity not creating character, but rather revealing it.

Anyway that's my two centavos on this one.

Since your hypothetical doesn't involve sucker punching me and killing hundreds of thousands of my closest friends and relatives in an attempt to dominate the world I'm going to say it isn't relevant. In the situation we are discussing, I vote D. Primarily because those that "will notice how I act" can have the same treatment if they have a problem with my actions. I really am against this whole "global community", globalism, one world thing in every way shape and form no matter how it is packaged. Regardless of the wrapper it is the same BS.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Throttle Jockey -
Opinions are like .... well you know. Everybody's got them. And I respect the fact that we're able to discuss this rationally and civilly. I deliberately made it a schoolyard analogy ON BOTH SIDES. Ours AND theirs. I said that we "beat the crap out of them" not "firebombed Tokyo and nuked the bleep out of two cities" either. I was trying to be reasonable and still illustrate the situation. The sucker punch part of it would be a completely fair edit to the analogy. And just for the record, a lot of rational people on both sides (US and Japan) agree that going nuclear saved MANY lives on both sides, and was likely the lesser of the evils. I personally agree with that line of thinking.

For myself, I would choose a less "isolationistic" view. I put "isolationistic" in quotes, because I struggled for the right word. I wanted to say "xenophobic" but I really don't think that that is fair to your point of view. I think isolationism is much closer and fairer. As I stated above, I am ENTIRELY opposed to the UN-ish "one world" sort of a view of things. I believe however, that we as a nation should help those nations that are friendly towards us (or rather even those who are not actively our enemies???) in their hour of need. No different than we should help our neighbors when something goes dreadfully wrong in their life. And that laughing at them and spiting them in that hour of need is a poor way to treat ANYONE save perhaps even our worst enemy (one that's actively after us like say, al-quaeda).

This sort of thing is, and ought to be VOLUNTARY, in my opinion. NOT compulsory - a la UN-style/ one world gubbamint. No way in HELL on that! On that part I get the sense that we totally agree, TJ.

There is a VAST difference between the Bribery/Foreign Aid racket a la what we send to Egypt for example, and sending search and rescue teams/ nuclear specialists to help out in Japan. At least I believe so. I would abolish the first kind of foreign aid while encouraging the latter. It even has a side benefit of sharing knowledge and experience with our experts so WE can better handle/avoid situations here.

As for what we do voluntarily, looks like we agree to disagree there. And as for the "kick them in the huevos" part, if we truly take that attitude, we will soon have NO friends/allies. Why would ANYONE become your ally/friend if your kick your friends in the nards when they are down? Not terribly smart on our part.

Are there ANY nations/allies that you would deem worthy of our help should they face a similar situation? Who would be worthy of our aid when they face a disaster of this magnitude? Or do we help no one?

Again - I refer specifically to us as a nation VOLUNTARILY helping another nation friendly to us (to one degree or another). And NOT us being forced into it! You and I agree on that from everything I can see.

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

On a different note, what can we learn and apply from the disaster in Japan? Here are a few that I have thought about,

1. Never give up hope. Example - a 60 year old man was found 10 miles out at sea, clinging to the remains of his roof. He had been out at sea for two days with no food or water.

2. Stock up on food, fuel, water, other necessary items. Example - Japanese retail is based upon "just in time delivery". They live in small houses and apartments with little extra storage. Appliances are smaller and have limited capacity. Asian culture, like much of the world, goes shopping everyday. It makes for an efficient balance until the flow is disrupted. Even areas far from the quake are experiencing shortages and rationing.
3. Technology is fragile. Example - Despite all the best planning, Mother Nature can overwhelm our best efforts. The Japanese are the best emergency planners in the world. Yet the billions of Yen spent on contingency planning and infrastructure improvements could not help them. It did limit the amount of damage farther away from the epicenter, but the poor people near the coast, did not have a chance.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

SLD -
Good points all. Actually I saw one video of Sendai, I believe, where the tsunami alarms went off and they had 10-15 minutes before it hit to get to high ground. I suspect that that saved a lot of people.

I would add to your list:

1) When the alarm sounds - GO. Doubt that there's many Japanese right now that are sorry for heeding the alarm. Even if they only had a minute or two...
2) Keep your stuff in a reasonably mobile setup. Spare fuel (or perhaps a vehicle with additional fuel capacity??) is a good idea. Even if you choose to hole up at your main location, you can use the extra fuel to run a generator.
3) Have a "hioly crap" communication plan with close friends and family. If you ever get stuck have a bunch of backup ways to reestablish communications. I'm still thinking through this for my own use - but it's clear that a lot of people are caught apart in this case - and are having a tough time reconnecting.

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

AP, those are good points as well. Some of the tsunami vids show the snow flurries that were happening when the earthquake hit. We never know the time or place when disaster will strike.

I've thought about asking my adult Sunday school class the question; If the New Madrid earthquake happened today, how much food, fuel and other necessary items do you have? If Walmart and Sam's Club were shut down and the gas and oil pipelines and electricity were cut, how long could you survive?