Last Jedi ***WITH SPOILERS***

[jedi]

Ouch!!!
The truth does hurt.

 

[Woobie]

Yoda was right. Luke was too old to become a Jedi. By the way, on the Academy angle: I wondered about that. He didn't seem too keen on the empire, even before they turned his family all crispy. Was he talking about a merchant marine type academy, or did he want to be a pilot so bad it didn't matter that it was for the bad guys?

 

[T.Lex]

Yoda was right. Luke was too old to become a Jedi. By the way, on the Academy angle: I wondered about that. He didn't seem too keen on the empire, even before they turned his family all crispy. Was he talking about a merchant marine type academy, or did he want to be a pilot so bad it didn't matter that it was for the bad guys?

I seem to recall that he ran into that friend he mentioned, who had defected to the Rebellion. I think in some extended universe work, it was not uncommon for lower-class kids to go to join the Empire's military (like the Academy) just to get off their sucky home worlds. Not unlike some of my forebears who used the military to get out of the coal mines and urban poverty a hundred and some years ago.

Once they tasted life outside of their little corner of the galaxy, they would switch sides or disappear into the outer rim. Not much loyalty going on.

Which kinda fits the narrative about how the stormtroopers' sucked so bad. Most of the good recruits bailed.

 

[Woobie]

I can buy that. Yeah, he ran into his buddy Biggs in the hanger on Yavin 15 minutes before Luke's daddy killed him.

 

[jedi]

You realize that the empire was not bad, right?
The Case for the Empire | The Weekly Standard

Its an old article but still worth the read.

 

[T.Lex]

Palpatine was just trying to drain the swamp planet of Deecee I.

 

[Woobie]

You realize that the empire was not bad, right?
The Case for the Empire | The Weekly Standard

Its an old article but still worth the read.

Leave it to a republican establishment rag to tout the benefits of a militarized, all powerful centralized empire. That told me nothing about Star Wars, but confirmed a lot I suspected about the Weekly Standard.

 

[Woobie]

Palpatine was just trying to drain the swamp planet of Deecee I.

Lol


To quote Queen Hotness of the Naboo: "So this is how democracy dies."

 

[Woobie]

Speaking of SW hotties. Lucas must have a thing for brunettes. Where are all the blondes from the Skandyyy system? I want to see planet Scotta with all the warriors painting themselves in blue and the women are all redheads. Sorry, but the purple hair didn't do it for me.

 

[femurphy77]

Speaking of SW hotties. Lucas must have a thing for brunettes. Where are all the blondes from the Skandyyy system? I want to see planet Scotta with all the warriors painting themselves in blue and the women are all redheads. Sorry, but the purple hair didn't do it for me.

Avatar?

 

[Woobie]

Avatar?

Not blue skin. I was thinking of woad on Gaelic types.

 

[jamil]

Yoda was right. Luke was too old to become a Jedi. By the way, on the Academy angle: I wondered about that. He didn't seem too keen on the empire, even before they turned his family all crispy. Was he talking about a merchant marine type academy, or did he want to be a pilot so bad it didn't matter that it was for the bad guys?

I seem to recall that he ran into that friend he mentioned, who had defected to the Rebellion. I think in some extended universe work, it was not uncommon for lower-class kids to go to join the Empire's military (like the Academy) just to get off their sucky home worlds. Not unlike some of my forebears who used the military to get out of the coal mines and urban poverty a hundred and some years ago.

Once they tasted life outside of their little corner of the galaxy, they would switch sides or disappear into the outer rim. Not much loyalty going on.

Which kinda fits the narrative about how the stormtroopers' sucked so bad. Most of the good recruits bailed.

Watch the deleted scenes. That part is better explained.

 

[printcraft]

Speaking of deleted scenes ......

[video=youtube;I7I0xJNIxiE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7I0xJNIxiE[/video]

 

[jedi]

 

[chipbennett]

Well given that they've already had homosexual relationships in at least two of their teenie shows, it seems hard to imagine they won't introduce it to SW as well. It's part of their corporate morality.

Already been introduced. It's part of the reason that I can't stand the Aftermath book trilogy. Personally, I don't have an inherent problem with homosexual relationships in the Star Wars universe. The problems are a) the Star Wars universe hasn't much focused on any but a very few, romantic relationships at all, and only where those relationships (mostly, the Skywalker family) impacted the story; and b) Wendig didn't just incorporate it; he was overtly pushing a social agenda with it. It was obvious both in the novels, and in his real-world responses to readers/critics.

 

[printcraft]

From a youtube account...xNaruto420x.....

. Long but precise.

THE THEME OF THE LAST JEDI IS ALL SET UP AND NO PAY OFF

Set up in TFA: Rey is unusually skilled at combat, piloting, mechanics, lightsaber dueling, and the Force. She gets visions when she touches Luke’s lightsaber. Rey seems to have an interesting backstory that may explain her unusual skills.


Pay off in TLJ: Rey is a nobody.


Set up in TFA: The film's motivation is to find Luke Skywalker before the First Order, hinting that he's important to winning the fight.


Pay off in TLJ: Luke barely trains Rey. Luke doesn't fight. Luke only buys time for the Resistance. Luke dies.


Set up in TFA: Rey makes the journey to give Luke back his lightsaber.


Pay off in TLJ: Luke tosses it behind him for a gag joke.


Set up in TFA: Maz Kanata teases us about the lightsaber’s origin. “Where’d you get that?” says Han Solo. “A good question. For another time,” says Maz.


Pay off in TLJ: The “good question” is never answered.


Set up in TFA: Finn is hinted to become good friends with Poe. Maybe he’ll get a subplot adventure with Poe next film.


Pay off in TLJ: Finn goes on an inconsequential subplot with a completely different character.


Set up in TFA: The Knights of Ren are shown in a flashback. They give off a cool, mysterious aura similar to Boba Fett.


Pay off in TLJ: They are never seen or talked about again.


Set up in TFA: Snoke is setup as the big, main villain. Snoke is kept mysterious, leaving a lot of room to develop his character because repeating the same Emperor archetype from the OT is unlikely.


Pay off in TLJ: Snoke just dies.


Set up in TFA: Rey finally finds Luke. Now she can be trained.


Pay off in TLJ: Rey gets almost no training and spends very little time on the island before leaving.


Set up in TFA: Finn is severely injured by Kylo, leaving him in a coma.


Pay off in TLJ: Finn is back to normal health immediately.


Set up in TFA: Starkiller Base is destroyed by the Resistance.


Pay off in TLJ: Doesn’t seem to affect the First Order’s military abilities.


Set up in TFA: Kylo is obsessed with his grandfather’s legacy, Vader. “I will finish what you started.”


Pay off in TLJ: That “what” is never mentioned again.


Set up in TFA: C3-PO’s red arm. "You probably don't recognize me because of the red arm."


Pay off in TLJ: C3-PO gets his gold arm back. The red arm is never explained. (I almost left this out because, seriously, it's not important but it speaks to the constant theme of set up/no pay off between TFA and TLJ.)




Now for set up and pay off in TLJ’s own story.


Set up in TLJ: Kylo hesitates and doesn’t kill his mother, further developing his character, but Leia dies anyway creating a sense of tragedy.


Pay off in TLJ: Leia survives and flies back to the ship robbing us the emotional impact seconds before. Previous movies have never hinted at Leia being this good at the Force. Han Solo stayed mostly the same, why does Leia get superpowers off screen?


Set up in TLJ: Leia survives, probably to keep leading the Resistance.


Pay off in TLJ: Leia goes into a coma and has no impact on the rest of the story.


Set up in TLJ: Finn is going to ram his ship into the First Order’s cannon to save everyone.


Pay off in TLJ: Rose stops him which leaves the Resistance at the mercy of the First Order. She had no idea Luke was coming to save the day.


Set up in TLJ: Luke shows up to save the day and to have a final epic, satisfying battle with Kylo.


Pay off in TLJ: Luke was just astral projecting and then dies on a rock.


Set up in TLJ: Holdo is distant and cold, and the First Order tracked them through hyperspace (which the film says is impossible). Maybe she’s a traitor.


Pay off in TLJ: No, Holdo is just a bad leader. “I know you’re type… hotheaded,” says Holdo to Poe, so she knows that Poe might do something that could hurt her plans. She should’ve been aware of Poe’s charisma and reputation. Holdo doesn’t reduce this risk at all but chooses to look like an unsympathetic commander when crew morale is very low because death is literally chasing them. It's ripe for mutiny.


Set up in TLJ: We spend a large portion of the movie following Finn/Rose’s subplot.


Pay off in TLJ: The plot fails, leaving us frustrated because Holdo and Poe should’ve worked together: Holdo’s plan + Poe’s plan.


Set up in TLJ: Rey is to be trained by Luke.


Pay off in TLJ: Rey gets almost no training; missing opportunities for character development and world building.


Set up in TLJ: Rey sees the black water hole representing dark side temptations, accompanied with tones of dread; something forbidden and fascinating is down there.


Pay off in TLJ: It's just a mirror and Rey sees her own reflection.


Set up in TLJ: Kylo directly says the movie’s theme that they should cast aside the past and he asks Rey to join him, a very interesting direction the story could’ve taken.


Pay off in TLJ: Rey says no, and the film goes back to the same good guys vs bad guys cliche.






“When ‘Force Awakens’ came out we were in prep and there was definitely a little gasp,” the director says. “The spotlight turned on us briefly and we went and made sure the script was as tight as it could be and did a little polish to it. For me, the big thing I’m thankful for looking back is I wrote the script before ‘Force Awakens’ was even really made. They were shooting it while I was making the script. So I got the best of both worlds. I got to just personally react to the story and the script and what I was seeing the actors bringing to the parts in the dailies, and I got to put that personal reaction into it without trying to filter all the world’s reaction to it.” —Rian JohnsonVariety


"Remove everything that has no relevance to the story. If you say in the first chapter that there is a rifle hanging on the wall, in the second or third chapter it absolutely must go off. If it's not going to be fired, it shouldn't be hanging there." — Anton Chekhov


Chekhov's gun: a dramatic principle that states that every element in a story must be necessary, and irrelevant elements should be removed; elements should not appear to make "false promises" by never coming into play.

 

[Alpo]

+1 for the Chekov ref.

 

[jedi]

Can we just agree that star wars is dead.
TLJ should not be spoken anymore. In fact it should be like that james bond movie that the franchies does not acknolwdge, and just skipped over with the next one.

 

[chipbennett]

Can we just agree that star wars is dead.
TLJ should not be spoken anymore. In fact it should be like that james bond movie that the franchies does not acknolwdge, and just skipped over with the next one.

Star Wars is dead. Long live Star Wars.

 

[jedi]

There will NEVER be another steel bikini leia, ever!