Man OCing Robbed of His Gun

[AJBB87]

I'm sure in the history of the world, a person CC'ing has been disarmed during a robbery.

Just like I'm sure that a person OC'ing has been a deterrent to a robbery.

No I don't have an article or story to back up my statements. I do, however, have my 22 years of worldly experience. It's a crazy world where weird things happen.

As responsible gun owners it's up to us to keep stuff like this from happening. If you must be walking alone at 4 am then it would be wise to keep your eyes, ears, and nose, peeled. If you carry, it would be wise to use a holster with a good retention system but even more so if you open carry. If you carry, it would be wise to train for situations where someone tries to disarm you but even more so if you open carry.

Many of us don't do these things and many of us will never encounter this situation, just like many of us will never have to use our guns. I'm sure the guy in the original post probably wishes he did some things differently though.

AJB

 

[JetGirl]

Tagged

 

[public servant]

If you carry, it would be wise to use a holster with a good retention system but even more so if you open carry. If you carry, it would be wise to train for situations where someone tries to disarm you but even more so if you open carry.

I'm not sure it was a case of being "disarmed" as much as it was someone shoving what the subject of the robbery thought was a gun to the back of his head and saying to him..."hand over the gun or I'll blow your effing head off".

No retention holster in the world is going to prevent that...unless they can't get it out of the holster after they shoot you.

I think the point was...with times getting tougher and tougher the crooks are going to take more and more chances. A $500 to $900 gun could easily be sold for $50 on the street for that next fix...or to feed hungry kids.

Let's be careful out there...it's a dangerous world.

 

[AJBB87]

I'm not sure it was a case of being "disarmed" as much as it was someone shoving what the subject of the robbery thought was a gun to the back of his head and saying to him..."hand over the gun or I'll blow your effing head off".

No retention holster in the world is going to prevent that...unless they can't get it out of the holster after they shoot you.

I completely agree. I was using those examples generally for those of us who regularly OC.

AJB

 

[cce1302]

I think a good comparison would be "people who were robbed while OCing" vs "people who were robbed while not OCing."

Hmmm..from disastercenter.com, there were 447,403 robberies in 2006. One of those, we know, was a man who was OCing. Let's assume an error margin of, well, it doesn't really matter. 5%? 10% 30%? let's say 10%. the numbers still are overwhelmingly more robberies of people who were not OCing than those who were open carrying. I don't feel like doing the math on this one.

 

[haldir]

I can remember the old man always telling me the other guy shouldn't know you had a pistol until you were pulling the trigger. He commented more than a couple times that otherwise someone would eventually take it away from you. Those old guys were purty smart.

 

[jeremy]

tag

 

[jeremy]

I can remember the old man always telling me the other guy shouldn't know you had a pistol until you were pulling the trigger. He commented more than a couple times that otherwise someone would eventually take it away from you. Those old guys were purty smart.

Hmmm... I was always told by my grandparents only a criminal hides there firearms...

 

[dross]

You can always tell when a sacred cow has been gored by the reactions of the faithful. I leaned away from the idea of OC when I started viewing this forum, but many of the arguments were compelling, and shifted my view. I don't however, have strong feelings one way or the other, except that it should be a right, and I admire those who assert it.

That said, the fact that this might have happened to someone OCing doesn't destroy your case. Just acknowledge that now the people who disagree with you have a bit of factual ammunition. You don't have to blame the guy's situational awareness, or start getting mad.

Even though there's a lack of evidence (but then, the sample is small) it doesn't hurt your case to acknowledge that yes, openly wearing might create a tactical disadvantage, just as it doesn't hurt the CC only case to admit that OC probably has deterred crime.

You look bad when you can't acknowledge that there is any possible way at all that there is any imagined possible argument against your own point.

 

[pftraining_in]

'COP-BASH THUG' NABBED - NYPOST.com

'COP-BASH THUG' NABBED

By JAMIE SCHRAM, LARRY CELONA and DAN MANGAN
Last Updated: 5:00 AM, February 6, 2007
Posted: 5:00 AM, February 6, 2007
Two rookie cops yesterday chased down a Queens punk who, after stalking their Police Academy classmate, bashed his skull with a baseball bat and stole his gun and handcuffs, authorities said.
The thug, Danny Fernandez, 21, looked for a cop for more than three hours before he pounced on Officer Joseph Cho at around 1 a.m. on 102nd Street and 39th Avenue in Jackson Heights, sources said.
Fernandez was nabbed moments later by fleet-footed Officer Patrick Lynch, who had spotted the tail end of the cowardly attack from a block away.
Fernandez allegedly told police later that he wanted to use the officer's gun in a series of robberies to pay off $16,000 in debt.
"He needed money," a police source said.
Fernandez first spotted Cho about a half-hour before the assault, and stalked the officer, waiting for the right moment to make his move, authorities said.
Finally, he darted out between two parked cars on the frigid, deserted street, jumping up behind the unsuspecting cop and cracking him in the head with the bat, a source said.
Cho fell to the ground. Fernandez, seeing that he still was moving, then bashed him once more in the head, authorities said, knocking him unconscious. Fernandez then bent down to grab Cho's 9mm Glock service pistol and handcuffs, authorities said.
Lynch spotted Fernandez as the suspect struggled to remove Cho's gun belt, the sources said.
Unaware that the assault victim was a fellow cop, Lynch ran over and Fernandez fled, according to the sources. As Lynch came up to Cho's prone body, he realized he was a cop and radioed for help.
Lynch, a long-distance runner while attending college in Vermont, then chased Fernandez several blocks to 37-40 102nd St.
Lynch grabbed Fernandez, who was carrying Cho's gun and cuffs, cops said. A third rookie, Officer Christine Schmidt, 26, had heard the radio call and assisted in the arrest.
Back at the assault scene, cops found the baseball bat used in the attack, authorities said.
Cho, 32, was taken to Elmhurst Hospital where he was in serious but stable condition with a fractured skull, a concussion and other injuries.
Mayor Bloomberg paid him a visit, as did Rep. Joseph Crowley (D-Queens), who was already at the medical center for an unrelated meeting.
"He was asleep when I was there. He looked sedated," said Crowley, whose father and grandfather were city cops. "The whole thing is just unbelievably hard to describe, the notion that someone would have the depravity to hit anyone, much less a police officer.
"I think that the full extent of the law needs to be brought to bear on the individual so this won't be tolerated."
Cho was also visited by several cops and relatives, some visibly shaken by the incident.
"He's OK. He's still stable," said a sergeant from the 115th Precinct. "That's all we can hope for."
Cho, Lynch and Schmidt all graduated from the NYPD Police Academy on Dec. 26, before being assigned to patrol duty in the 115th Precinct.
"He's only six weeks on the road," said Lynch's proud dad, Thomas, himself a former police sergeant in Suffolk County. "He told me he wasn't looking for glory, he was just doing his job."
"He's only 22, but he's got a good head on his shoulders. He's a phenomenal long-distance runner. They say he ran this guy down. That's not unusual at all."
Fernandez, a former student at La Guardia Community College who lives in Flushing, was ordered held without bail last night at his arraignment. He is charged with attempted murder, aggravated assault on a police officer, robbery, criminal possession of a weapon and criminal possession of stolen property.
He faces a maximum of 25 years to life in prison if convicted. He is due back in court Feb. 20.
Several of Fernandez's teary-eyed relatives attended the hearing.
"He's doing fine," his lawyer, Joseph Ramirez, said afterward.
The brazen attack stunned veteran cops, who said they could not recall a case of an officer being targeted for assault so that his weapon could be stolen and used for other crimes.
"It is a miracle that the officer survived," said Queens District Attorney Richard Brown. "This case underscores yet again the dangers faced by the New York City police officers in the performance of their duties."
Cho and Lynch, who is not related to police-union boss Patrick Lynch, on Sunday night were separately walking the streets of Jackson Heights in uniform as part of Operation Impact, a 5-year-old NYPD program that floods high-crime areas with rookie cops to combat violence.
Fernandez told police that at about 9:30 p.m., he went out with a baseball bat looking for an officer working alone for the express purpose of robbing the cop of his gun and handcuffs, Brown said.
"Fernandez claimed to be $16,000 in debt, which he hoped to pay off by committing robberies with the police officer's gun and cuffs," according to a statement from Brown's office.
Officials did not reveal the nature of Fernandez's debts.
When he confessed to the assault under interrogation, Fernandez mentioned not only his debts, but also the fact that he had recently broken up with his girlfriend, the sources said.
Police Commissioner Ray Kelly praised Lynch and Schmidt's quick action.
"The outstanding response by the young police officers to this vicious attack on their fellow police officer prevented the assailant from escaping and from posing a greater risk to the public," Kelly said.
Additional reporting by Patrick White, Rich Calder, Ikimulisa Livingston and Jana Winter
jamie.schram@nypost.com

 

[Arm America]

If it were to happen to me, I don't know that I would admit it.
Of course, I would report it to the police since the bad guys
now had my weapon but it might be an anonymous call.

 

[cce1302]

'COP-BASH THUG' NABBED - NYPOST.com

'COP-BASH THUG' NABBED

By JAMIE SCHRAM, LARRY CELONA and DAN MANGAN
Last Updated: 5:00 AM, February 6, 2007
Posted: 5:00 AM, February 6, 2007

Proof positive that only uniformed cops on duty should open carry.

 

[ATM]

This old story has come up here before. It was also claimed to be a false report:

Gun Stolen...while being open carried! - News & Political Alerts - Open Carry Brigade - OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum

(but that is as unverified as the original report.)

Doesn't matter, I know that it can and likely does happen... but very rarely.

If the rarity becomes more common, I will adapt accordingly.

Gotta play the odds.

 

[ihateiraq]

thats why i pie off corners and windows. i also fashioned a rearview mirror that attaches to a headband, so i can view 360 at all times. i dont want to get jumped and have people say i should have been paying attention to my surroundings.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Hmm. He must have never heard of situational awareness.

ROTFLMAO, yeah. That was it.

May be he needed a more intimidating gun. He needed a serrated I-pod to play a track of slide racking 870s. May be he could glue one of those surveys to his back that have never ever shown a single person singled out because bad guys so him carrying and bluffed him out of his weapon with some plumbing supplies.

 

[Jack Ryan]

One case of an OCers gun being stolen is of little consequence. If I could find you a case (or a hundred since it is much more common) of a CCer in the same circumstance would declare CC to be tactically unsound? Most importantly, beyond personal experience non of us will ever know exactly how often the deterrence actually takes effect. There are no available statics and therefore no way to prove your biased theories. No carry method is an excuse for tactical lethargy.

It's not ONE case. It's happened several times before and at least a few time that never even made it to the papers.

I knew a guy who had he wallet and his gun both stolen by a stripper and all she did is lean in his car window for a kiss and came out with the half of his pay check he didn't give her inside and his 380. ROTFL, I'll give you he wasn't technically OCing on purpose.

He was just drunk, sloppy and stupid.

 

[1032JBT]

It's not ONE case. It's happened several times before and at least a few time that never even made it to the papers.

I knew a guy who had he wallet and his gun both stolen by a stripper and all she did is lean in his car window for a kiss and came out with the half of his pay check he didn't give her inside and his 380. ROTFL, I'll give you he wasn't technically OCing on purpose.

He was just drunk, sloppy and stupid.

I KNEW IT!!!!!! He was preparing to drive drunk!!!!!! Where did I put that blood draw search warrant paperwork????




Sorry Jack........I couldn't pass that one up

 

[Jack Ryan]

I KNEW IT!!!!!! He was preparing to drive drunk!!!!!! Where did I put that blood draw search warrant paperwork????




Sorry Jack........I couldn't pass that one up

Don't bother me any. She should have taken his keys, to tell the truth I don't remember for sure that he was driving. There were other people with him is how we all knew about it at work the next day.

 

[remymartin]

I do not OC. I have never OC'd off of my property. I didnt even know OC was legal until a few months ago. I have been carrying for 14 years. I am not against OC. I believe that there may be time and a place for it. Walking down the street is not one of those times. I've seen alot of 20/20 hindsight in this thread.... "I'm aware".... "I'm careful"....... I'm not saying its not possible that another person would not have seen this assult and robbery of a weapon coming, but really. We all may think we're John Wayne, Rambo, Segal, Tony Danza....... C'mon this A&R probably happened in seconds. They'd have got you too. I'm not trying to tick anyone off, but those that have said "that would not happen to me", know in the back of your head that it could have. We can train all we want, be as paranoid as we want, double layer our tinfoil hats, but none of us are invincible. To pretend we are is as foolish as the two that robbed the OC'er.

 

[public servant]

IBTL

It really is just personal preference...