Man shot and killed inside Kroger on Indy's southside

[bwframe]

The guy that was killed was shot and stabbed. Quite possibly he drew in self defense...

Lotsa possibilities, including threatening the other guy with his gun and got the blade as a result of it? Wonder if the guy was OCing or CCing?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Lotsa possibilities, including threatening the other guy with his gun and got the blade as a result of it? Wonder if the guy was OCing or CCing?

Yep, lots of possibilities. But the actions of the shooter afterwards makes some a bit more likely than others, at least IMO.

 

[Tanfodude]

On this I would politely disagree in part. Otherwise comparing absolute criminal homicides doesn't mean much. One needs to ask how the per capita numbers are measured: metropolitan area or the city proper. The FBI keeps track of both for metro areas. What I would agree with is the need to dig deeper into the demographics of the murders, and not purely by race, but more by gang involvement and economic class as I believe those are the real drivers. As an aside, Indianapolis is considered one of the higher criminal homicide rates in the nation in the top 20-25. This was shocking when I discovered it. The figures I've seen show it in the top ten for violent crime; the criminal homicide numbers belie this. Chiraq, while perhaps the closest is actually safer than St. Louis, Cleveland or Detroit. Cincinnati also has major problems. The worst is probably East St. Louis, but it isn't usually listed as it doesn't have a population in excess of 200k-250k.

John

Rates still doesn't show the magnitude IMO as it is based on a number of population. But what kind of population?
Rates doesn't specifically target a location and demographics. IMO rates is a lazy way to categorizing a city's murder crimes.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Rates still doesn't show the magnitude IMO as it is based on a number of population. But what kind of population?
Rates doesn't specifically target a location and demographics. IMO rates is a lazy way to categorizing a city's murder crimes.

But straight number of deaths don't really tell you much either. City A had 144 criminal homicides in 2015, city B had 50. Which would you say is safer? But city A had a per capita rate of 16.9 and city B was 64.7 Would it help if told you that city A was Indianapolis and that city B was Gary? Per capita numbers by themselves may or may not tell you much, but the same with just the number of times either. As I mentioned there were 2 years that my town had rate of about 38, but that entailed a total of 2 murder each year.

And yes rates target a location, whether that location is a neighborhood, entire city, state, nation, etc. They can also target specific demographics. Be it based on type of employment, income, prior criminal status, race, just about any kind of demographic you wish to target.

 

[Tanfodude]

But straight number of deaths don't really tell you much either. City A had 144 criminal homicides in 2015, city B had 50. Which would you say is safer? But city A had a per capita rate of 16.9 and city B was 64.7 Would it help if told you that city A was Indianapolis and that city B was Gary? Per capita numbers by themselves may or may not tell you much, but the same with just the number of times either. As I mentioned there were 2 years that my town had rate of about 38, but that entailed a total of 2 murder each year.

And yes rates target a location, whether that location is a neighborhood, entire city, state, nation, etc. They can also target specific demographics. Be it based on type of employment, income, prior criminal status, race, just about any kind of demographic you wish to target.

Then stats should do that to be more specific. Indianapolis is decent size city and on the indy crime map, the crime locations are clustered on specific areas.

The Gary/Indianapolis example is what exactly I meant, the rates doesn't reflect as both cities are of different sizes. Indy is big enough that the crime rates doesn't reflect the whole city while Gary is small enough that it reflects almost the whole city itself.

 

[bwframe]

How does the saying go?

There's lies, there's damned lies, then there's statistics...

 

[bwframe]

Yep, lots of possibilities. But the actions of the shooter afterwards makes some a bit more likely than others, at least IMO.

I don't disagree. However, all we know is what the news is reporting. Their accuracy is always questionable.

I'd like to learn how the poor gent was killed with his own gun. There is learning to be had by all of us in these details.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Then stats should do that to be more specific. Indianapolis is decent size city and on the indy crime map, the crime locations are clustered on specific areas.

The Gary/Indianapolis example is what exactly I meant, the rates doesn't reflect as both cities are of different sizes. Indy is big enough that the crime rates doesn't reflect the whole city while Gary is small enough that it reflects almost the whole city itself.

I have no idea how familiar you are with NWI and Gary in particular, but actually no the stats for Gary don't reflect the whole city. There are better and worse parts just like Indy, or pretty much any city. I used to live there and where I lived was pretty safe, there was one murder in the 6 or so years I lived there and it was of the type that could pretty much happen anywhere. It was a targeted hit stemming from what iirc was rumored to have been because someone ripped off a large drug dealer. My wife lived there for probably 15 yrs or so, the one neighborhood the only problems she had were from drunks from the local bar arguing outside, or peeing next to her apartment. The other, littering. Here is a map, while it doesn't show specific crimes it shows the different areas from safest to least safe. And there are divisions in the areas that vary as well.
https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/in/gary/crime

How does the saying go?

There's lies, there's damned lies, then there's statistics...

Pretty much.

I don't disagree. However, all we know is what the news is reporting. Their accuracy is always questionable.

I'd like to learn how the poor gent was killed with his own gun. There is learning to be had by all of us in these details.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

How does the saying go?

There's lies, there's damned lies, then there's statistics...

I've always thought that was an ironic saying, since statistics are intrinsically honest.

I'd like to learn how the poor gent was killed with his own gun. There is learning to be had by all of us in these details.

Me too. I won't be surprised if the bad guy was just on him too quick for him to draw, or maybe he did draw but hesitated, or maybe he was carrying without one in the chamber.

 

[mensajess]

This article has been bothering me since I read it.
https://www.wthr.com/article/police-kroger-murder-victim-was-shot-with-his-own-gun

In the fourth line "stabbed the victim then took his gun"

Last line "How did a convicted felon get a gun"
Does no one proofread anymore?

 

[dudley0]

Last line "How did a convicted felon get a gun"
Does no one proofread anymore?

They answered their own question... he got the gun from stabbing the victim and taking his.

Sometimes I wish I was in journalism so I could talk in circles and get paid for it.

Why aren't more politicians from the journalism field?

 

[Cameramonkey]

I've always thought that was an ironic saying, since statistics are intrinsically honest.




Me too. I won't be surprised if the bad guy was just on him too quick for him to draw, or maybe he did draw but hesitated, or maybe he was carrying without one in the chamber.

statistics can be presented in ways that are not appropriate. Like "mass shootings have increased!" No, that stat is wrong because they (those using the stats to prove the point they want to make) changed the definition midstream. When you change from the FBI standard of 4 killed to 2 or more shot, of course it appears on paper to increase.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I have no idea how familiar you are with NWI and Gary in particular, but actually no the stats for Gary don't reflect the whole city. There are better and worse parts just like Indy, or pretty much any city. I used to live there and where I lived was pretty safe, there was one murder in the 6 or so years I lived there and it was of the type that could pretty much happen anywhere. It was a targeted hit stemming from what iirc was rumored to have been because someone ripped off a large drug dealer. My wife lived there for probably 15 yrs or so, the one neighborhood the only problems she had were from drunks from the local bar arguing outside, or peeing next to her apartment. The other, littering. Here is a map, while it doesn't show specific crimes it shows the different areas from safest to least safe. And there are divisions in the areas that vary as well.
https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/in/gary/crime

Littering?? Did they make the perp sit on the Group W bench? Oh wait, that requires creatin' a nuisance too.

 

[cosermann]

Is there any video of the incident out yet?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Is there any video of the incident out yet?

I would not expect it to enter public domain for awhile, if ever.

 

[cosermann]

I would not expect it to enter public domain for awhile, if ever.

Thanks BBI. Yeah, I had my doubts.

W/o video, we're all just kind of guessing at how it all played out - what part was potentially failure of the MUC process, not creating space before going for access, etc. . . . or not. Certainly limits the potential for learning by others, but certainly respect the privacy of the family, integrity of the justice process and all that.

Sad situation.

 

[bwframe]

statistics can be presented in ways that are not appropriate...

Correct. How often do we hear the famous anti-gunner statistic, "90% of gun owners are for universal background checks?"

 

[Leadeye]

Sad situation being shot with his own gun, listen to Tuco.

 

[churchmouse]

Sad situation being shot with his own gun, listen to Tuco.

OK Blondie.

 

[Kutnupe14]

The victim, BTW has a son overseas serving, and was out testing a vehicle to see if the fuel line was good. The vehicle was intended to be a gift for his son. Shame.