Mattis to step down.

[Libertarian01]

While I have the GREATEST RESPECT and admiration for Secretary Mattis, this is an issue I believe President Trump is correct on.

We have been actively involved in Middle Eastern turmoil and war for years! We have been in Afghanistan for over 17 years now! There are kids that will have been born, gone to school, and perhaps graduate from high school and maybe college all while our troops are involved over there if we don't end this. Currently, there is NO endgame. Not in sight, just NO endgame at all!

I like that President Trump is willing to acknowledge this and get our people out. I'd also love it if he'd stop lobbing ordnance into nations we have not declared war on, but one thing at a time.

We don't need every country in the world to like us, love us, or be our ally. We do need to not be messed with, and that may(?) start by us desisting in messing with others.

Regards,

Doug

 

[HoughMade]

Much respect for Mattis (not something that was ever in doubt, really). Unlike so many political appointees at that level, who might work to undercut the executive that they disagree with, he's leaving.

It's a shame that Trump couldn't surround himself with good people....then LISTEN to them.

...but listening was never his strong suit.

 

[T.Lex]

It's a shame that Trump couldn't surround himself with good people....then LISTEN to them.

...but listening was never his strong suit.

For a couple years, especially in the foreign policy area, it felt like he really did listen to the professionals surrounding him. I could see some good things happening, or at least starting to. (Even though I'm not really a John Bolton fan.)

Now... I'm not so sure. We'll see what happens.

 

[indiucky]

(Even though I'm not really a John Bolton fan.)

"I'm the cool Bolton..."

 

[HoughMade]

 

[Expat]

I'd expect the only people seriously consider taking the job, are young guys looking to make a name, or someone old, in the twilight of their political career. I do wonder however, can a president order an active-duty general to become SoD?

Since Mattis had to get a Congressional waiver because he hadn't been retired from the military long enough, probably not.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Since Mattis had to get a Congressional waiver because he hadn't been retired from the military long enough, probably not.

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs is the highest-ranking military member in the armed forces. In uniform, he is at the top of the heap. The Chairman works for SecDef, so SecDef is a civvie.

 

[wagyu52]

This whole thing kinda reminds me of Al Haig, for those old enough to remember.

 

[KG1]

Careful, some on here don't like those kinds of references to Trump's dealings.

That's right. I forgot about Micheal Cohen.

 

[Vigilant]

We have other great military minds. I love the General but he wasnt the best secretary of defense this country has ever had. Also I disagree that we needed him more than President Trump.

While I’d normally side with you, the fact that Chaos Actual is throwing in the towel tells me that Trump is a sinking ship. Semper Fidelis is something I believe General Mattis still holds close, and if he’s bailing, there’s a reason.

 

[Vigilant]

While I have the GREATEST RESPECT and admiration for Secretary Mattis, this is an issue I believe President Trump is correct on.

We have been actively involved in Middle Eastern turmoil and war for years! We have been in Afghanistan for over 17 years now! There are kids that will have been born, gone to school, and perhaps graduate from high school and maybe college all while our troops are involved over there if we don't end this. Currently, there is NO endgame. Not in sight, just NO endgame at all!

I like that President Trump is willing to acknowledge this and get our people out. I'd also love it if he'd stop lobbing ordnance into nations we have not declared war on, but one thing at a time.

We don't need every country in the world to like us, love us, or be our ally. We do need to not be messed with, and that may(?) start by us desisting in messing with others.

Regards,

Doug

Incorrect. There is and always has been an endgame. Unfortunately, the American political machine, followed by the public, has no stomach for”endgames”. Let slip the dogs of war, and this **** will end in weeks.

 

[Libertarian01]

Incorrect. There is and always has been an endgame. Unfortunately, the American political machine, followed by the public, has no stomach for”endgames”. Let slip the dogs of war, and this **** will end in weeks.

I disagree. There is no endgame. The Soviets used extreme measures in Afghanistan and couldn't achieve victory. We cannot achieve victory in any reasonable way. There has been no set terms and/or conditions for withdrawal. We simply have wanted to "win" without every really defining what a "win" would look like.

If it is to "defeat terrorism" that is impossible. Terrorism is a tactic not a power. If it is to defeat radical Islamic terrorists also impossible. This would be like the Chinese and Russians invading the USA, winning, and trying to hunt down "nationalists." There will always be more.

I do respect Mattis and his loyalty to allies, but that should not place upon Americans the burden of eternal war. The Romans crossed the Rhine, got their butts kicked, lost legions, and pulled back. They accepted their limitations. We need to have the same strength to do the same.

Regards and Merry Christmas,

Doug

 

[KellyinAvon]

On 2 August 1990, young USAF SSgt KellyinAvon stopped in the USO at Keflavik NAS, Iceland to get coffee on the way to work. Two friends (Gator and Ski) were leaving that day, and were sitting at a table watching TV. This was not unusual, we met for coffee before work often. What was on the TV was Iraq's invasion of Kuwait. The guy hanging from the crane is something I will never forget.

We've been on this path for nearly 30 years.

I think about things between then and now. Desert Storm, Holy ****, Batman. Saddam's feared Republican Guard were surrendering to news crews. 9% of what we dropped was precision munitions, no ****, 9%. We should've went to Baghdad or got the hell outta Dodge, we did neither.

Somalia and Bill ****** Clinton. Operation Southern Watch and Operation Northern Watch. Every Eastern Euro ****hole Clinton could find where Christiane Amanpour showed up we were there. Operation Allied Force should've been called Operation Stained Dress. We sent A-10s to support. I remember telling a young troop who was going "I can't pronounce where you're going, I don't know when you'll come home." Hell, we went to South Africa on a classified deployment because Hillary said we would.

11 September 2001. I was with my boss and his boss at Langley AFB, Va. The next day we drove 900 miles back to Florida (had to drive, nothing was flying.) East gate at Eglin AFB at 2300: armored vehicle with a mounted M-60, I could see the belt of 7.62 hanging from it. I knew the world I'd known in the USAF since 1986 was gone.

I remember the purple fingers. I remember saying that anyone who risks their life to vote is worth fighting for.

I remember in 2005, I was home (Indiana, I was stationed in Virginia, Indiana is home) on leave. I'd been in Qatar earlier that year. An acquaintance of my Dads told me it was all about oil. I told him that 300,000 Iraqis would disagree if they weren't dead, then I asked him how he got so damn worldly in this little ****hole. 2005 was a while ago too.

Muhammad Ali once said if you have the same world view at 50 as you did at 20, you've wasted 30 years. It's almost 2019, 22 May will make 12 years since I wore the uniform. Next month I'll turn 54. We need to kick ass when it's in the National Interest and get the hell out of Dodge when we're done. If they want to kill each other? It's because we're not there for them to kill. In the Middle East these people have been killing each other since the Hittites and the Mesopotamians got into it 4,000 years ago. I don't see peace breaking out anytime soon.

That is one cynical view of the world, but it is based on experience.

 

[Trigger Time]

The man once said, "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet." We may never see another like him.

SecDef is the principle advisor to the President on defense matters. President Trump ran on keeping us out of nation-building. Get the 2.2K troops the hell out of Syria seems to follow a campaign promise. The SecDef disagreed, a split occurred. When you think about it, it should work this way.

I can understand why he's stepping down and of course it's a bit in the future. The man is a professional and will allow for a replacement to be in the pipeline before he steps away. (How's this confirmation hearing going to go??) The next SecDef will have big shoes to fill, but you can bet it won't be a Les Aspin, a Mumbles Hagel, an Ash Carter, or anyone else less qualified to be SecDef than I am.

Exactly. That's what me and my buddy talked about today. Another campaign promise kept. I'm glad we are getting the hell out of Syria.

Also I agree about Secretary Mattis. He understands the chain of command unlike some other little *****es in the government who try to usurp the Presidents authority daily and they should be hung in my opinion. The President is the chief executive and at the present time that is Trump and his vision and rules go, period. If you dont like it be a MAN like Mattis and resign. I love the guy. No, I love both guys, no homo.

 

[Trigger Time]

On 2 August 1990, young USAF SSgt KellyinAvon stopped in the USO at Keflavik NAS, Iceland to get coffee on the way to work. Two friends (Gator and Ski) were leaving that day, and were sitting at a table watching TV. This was not unusual, we met for coffee before work often. What was on the TV was Iraq's invasion of Kuwait. The guy hanging from the crane is something I will never forget.

We've been on this path for nearly 30 years.

I think about things between then and now. Desert Storm, Holy ****, Batman. Saddam's feared Republican Guard were surrendering to news crews. 9% of what we dropped was precision munitions, no ****, 9%. We should've went to Baghdad or got the hell outta Dodge, we did neither.

Somalia and Bill ****** Clinton. Operation Southern Watch and Operation Northern Watch. Every Eastern Euro ****hole Clinton could find where Christiane Amanpour showed up we were there. Operation Allied Force should've been called Operation Stained Dress. We sent A-10s to support. I remember telling a young troop who was going "I can't pronounce where you're going, I don't know when you'll come home." Hell, we went to South Africa on a classified deployment because Hillary said we would.

11 September 2001. I was with my boss and his boss at Langley AFB, Va. The next day we drove 900 miles back to Florida (had to drive, nothing was flying.) East gate at Eglin AFB at 2300: armored vehicle with a mounted M-60, I could see the belt of 7.62 hanging from it. I knew the world I'd known in the USAF since 1986 was gone.

I remember the purple fingers. I remember saying that anyone who risks their life to vote is worth fighting for.

I remember in 2005, I was home (Indiana, I was stationed in Virginia, Indiana is home) on leave. I'd been in Qatar earlier that year. An acquaintance of my Dads told me it was all about oil. I told him that 300,000 Iraqis would disagree if they weren't dead, then I asked him how he got so damn worldly in this little ****hole. 2005 was a while ago too.

Muhammad Ali once said if you have the same world view at 50 as you did at 20, you've wasted 30 years. It's almost 2019, 22 May will make 12 years since I wore the uniform. Next month I'll turn 54. We need to kick ass when it's in the National Interest and get the hell out of Dodge when we're done. If they want to kill each other? It's because we're not there for them to kill. In the Middle East these people have been killing each other since the Hittites and the Mesopotamians got into it 4,000 years ago. I don't see peace breaking out anytime soon.

That is one cynical view of the world, but it is based on experience.

Bingo. ****'em all. Let them sort out their own ****. Bad **** happens all the time, better we not have our name in it until it threatens us.
We've killed a lot of terrorist pieces of ****. More pop up, we kill them too and their kids and grandkids, hell great grandkids, literally.
It's time to either nuke the middle east or get the **** out. Since no one has the balls to nuke it, it's time to get out.
Islam will be the cause of the next world war mark my words. Islam is the next third reicht and eventualy we will eradicate it like we did the nazis (as a fighting force at least). But for now let them have their power struggles with each other and we will kill the victor later on.
Right now we need to focus on our own **** here at home.

KellyinAvon, I'd say you are a pretty wise man and I always enjoy your insight and I look up to you now, as a young E nothing would to his NCO in the military. What you say has weight to it.
We have both seen some **** around this big globe,
But yours spans a lot more time and you had a lot better eyes on a lot of things behind the curtain, and that counts a bunch. A ****load in my eyes.

 

[Brad69]

The military Industrial Complex does not want reduction in conflict in any part of the world and will fight to keep it going at all cost.

Secretary Mattis is acting like a true senior leader when he feels his advice and counsel isineffective so it’s time to leave.


BTW
The Muslim Brotherhood was tied to the Third Reich.

 

[BugI02]

While I’d normally side with you, the fact that Chaos Actual is throwing in the towel tells me that Trump is a sinking ship. Semper Fidelis is something I believe General Mattis still holds close, and if he’s bailing, there’s a reason.

I see this as internally contradictory. In the first sentence, you seem to imply that Mattis is getting out while the getting is good - which is what the sinking ship metaphor implies. Rats desert a sinking ship, and I do not believe Mattis is a rat in any way. I think his action is more akin to making the ritual cuts when your duty conflicts with your personal honor

In the second sentence you speak of Mattis holding Semper Fidelis close, you surely know that means 'always faithful' My own understanding is that it means faithful to God, country, family and The Corps - more or less in that order

I might argue whether what Mattis has chosen to do is what is best for country or The Corps, but never with his right to do so or that it must be the most personal of decisions. Just not sure precisely what he is being faithful to in this case

 

[jamil]

I see this as internally contradictory. In the first sentence, you seem to imply that Mattis is getting out while the getting is good - which is what the sinking ship metaphor implies. Rats desert a sinking ship, and I do not believe Mattis is a rat in any way. I think his action is more akin to making the ritual cuts when your duty conflicts with your personal honor

In the second sentence you speak of Mattis holding Semper Fidelis close, you surely know that means 'always faithful' My own understanding is that it means faithful to God, country, family and The Corps - more or less in that order

I might argue whether what Mattis has chosen to do is what is best for country or The Corps, but never with his right to do so or that it must be the most personal of decisions. Just not sure precisely what he is being faithful to in this case

I think there’s a flaw in your reasoning that seems more rationalizing than reasoning. It’s not internally contradictory if he does not believe the first part represents rats deserting a sinking ship. I took the sinking ship metephore to mean a foolish captain is bringing down the ship, and there’s no honor in remaining faithful to policies Mattis thinks are responsible for the sinking. If that’s the case, you can disagree with the Secretary’s judgement, but the above statement is consistent and his honor upheld.

 

[Vigilant]

I think there’s a flaw in your reasoning that seems more rationalizing than reasoning. It’s not internally contradictory if he does not believe the first part represents rats deserting a sinking ship. I took the sinking ship metephore to mean a foolish captain is bringing down the ship, and there’s no honor in remaining faithful to policies Mattis thinks are responsible for the sinking. If that’s the case, you can disagree with the Secretary’s judgement, but the above statement is consistent and his honor upheld.

This!

 

[BugI02]

While I’d normally side with you, the fact that Chaos Actual is throwing in the towel tells me that Trump is a sinking ship. Semper Fidelis is something I believe General Mattis still holds close, and if he’s bailing, there’s a reason.

I think there’s a flaw in your reasoning that seems more rationalizing than reasoning. It’s not internally contradictory if he does not believe the first part represents rats deserting a sinking ship. I took the sinking ship metephore to mean a foolish captain is bringing down the ship, and there’s no honor in remaining faithful to policies Mattis thinks are responsible for the sinking. If that’s the case, you can disagree with the Secretary’s judgement, but the above statement is consistent and his honor upheld.

Review the indicated [strike]mixed metaphors[/strike] overwrought clichés and tell me again the message you're being given is honorable man doing what honor demands. Not buying it Padre