Michigan teenager shot during traffic stop

[BigBoxaJunk]

Had the cop not pulled the kid over for a non-offense this discussion wouldn't even exist. Should the kid have attacked the cop? Hell, no! But that would not have happened if the cop didn't initiate contact by pulling the kid over.

I don't disagree, but once the officer pulled him over, it was entirely the kid's actions that made it go so badly from there. He could have driven away with a ticket, but decided to kick it up a notch instead.

If an officer doesn't have the authority to escalate his actions in dealing with an uncooperative driver, then what's the point of them ever pulling anyone over?

 

[jstory]

Had the cop not pulled the kid over for a non-offense this discussion wouldn't even exist. Should the kid have attacked the cop? Hell, no! But that would not have happened if the cop didn't initiate contact by pulling the kid over.

I've been pulled over for stupid little things before and its always been for my own good. Moron teens like this need to realize the cop is the one in charge of the situation. This cop did NOTHING wrong, you make it sound like it was the cops fault, it wasn't. Did the officer do everything 100% correct? I dont know, I'm not a police man. Did the kid do what he was told? Nope, but more than likely this would have only ended up with a warning or ticket instead of a funeral. Sorry, your post struck me the wrong way...rant over.

 

[Drail]

After seeing the video it is clear to me that the kid either spent way too much time watching Youtube videos and/or was obviously coached by his father or someone to talk back to cops. He quite obviously believed that he could back down a cop with that attitude. Some cops will tolerate that kind of behavior and just laugh to themselves and other cops will put you on the ground - HARD. When you reach the point where a cop points a weapon at you and orders you to the ground any further resistance or comments is just....stupid. It's like poking a stick into a hornet's nest while chanting -"You better not sting me!" I read that some people are actually accusing the cop of inflicting his wounds on himself. Lots of stupid here.

 

[long coat]

Is the LEO driving with his hi beams on, misaimed low beams or what? It said he pulled over 2 other drivers the same nite for flashing lights at him

 

[You'll shoot your eye out]

The officer did not make the teenager attack him. He escalated the encounter, yes. I'm still trying to figure out where the teenager had a legal right to attack the officer. As far as I'm concerned, one has a legal right to defend one's self when attacked. A 19 year old should have enough sense to not punch a cop in his face. In this case, it was a fatal mistake.

Could the officer have handled it better? Sure. We all agree on that. That doesn't change that what happened happened, he was cleared by his department, it was a clean shoot.

I can look the other way right up to the point where a 17 year old juvenile is unarmed and prone and at that point grudgingly compliant. Then knowing said child to be ignorant, and knowing that back-up is on the way Officer makes the decision to initiate physical contact ALONE including the decision to shock him. This was the first fatal decision in the encounter. Whatever the kid did afterwards was because of and in response to the Officer initiating violence.

Let's go again and consult our resident expert; "As far as I'm concerned, one has a legal right to defend one's self when attacked". This is what the kid thought even if mistakenly. The kid reacted to the taser, lashing out. Perhaps it was an involuntary reflexive response. I understand that 100% The death flows from the officers decision and not only the kids decision and/or reflexive self defense. The death stems from an initial bad decision on the Officers part, the juveniles bad decision was consequential to the officer.

I have a hard time rationalizing this because the mode of death was intentional shooting and 7 intentional shots no less, but would it make a difference if I reduced charges to manslaughter? I recognize that the Officer did not stop this kid intending to kill him. The Officer did pull him out of the car at gunpoint without threat, held him at gunpoint without threat, then initiated actions at gunpoint that precipitated a threat before firing SEVEN ROUNDS. There is substantial liability here.

And oh yes, Officer was cleared by his dept. That's not holding much credibility with the general public nowadays. Too much incompetence. Too many cover-ups. Too many negligent shootings. Read the news, our good will is wearing thin.

I do want to acknowledge that these events are happening elsewhere and I am not painting our local constabulary with the broad brush. As INGO LEOs constantly point out, It ain't us..... Thank you for that.

 

[BADWOLF]

Will someone please point out to me because im just not seeing or getting where the ( disparity of force ) claim could be made by the officer and how he properly executed ( escalation of force )?

↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑
These are law enforcement concepts right?

 

[ljk]

Out of curiosity, do you feel anything for the family of the young man?

Nope. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes, doesn't matter it's a total stranger or my brother. He's got the Gold this time. And that's my final answer.

 

[CPT Nervous]

Had the cop not pulled the kid over for a non-offense this discussion wouldn't even exist. Should the kid have attacked the cop? Hell, no! But that would not have happened if the cop didn't initiate contact by pulling the kid over.

Yep. If only cops just left everyone alone. People would stop getting killed by cops, and cops would quit getting killed by trash.

I'm going to propose a strict no public contact policy at my department. We will stop any and all contact with the public.

I'll let you know how that works out.

 

[foszoe]

I can look the other way right up to the point where a 17 year old juvenile is unarmed

Perhaps I missed something in the video or other reporting. How was it known the juvenile was unarmed?

 

[Arthur Dent]

I don't disagree, but once the officer pulled him over, it was entirely the kid's actions that made it go so badly from there. He could have driven away with a ticket, but decided to kick it up a notch instead.

If an officer doesn't have the authority to escalate his actions in dealing with an uncooperative driver, then what's the point of them ever pulling anyone over?

I've been pulled over for stupid little things before and its always been for my own good. Moron teens like this need to realize the cop is the one in charge of the situation. This cop did NOTHING wrong, you make it sound like it was the cops fault, it wasn't. Did the officer do everything 100% correct? I dont know, I'm not a police man. Did the kid do what he was told? Nope, but more than likely this would have only ended up with a warning or ticket instead of a funeral. Sorry, your post struck me the wrong way...rant over.

I'm not in any way shape or form putting 100% of the blame on the cop. Like I said, the kid shouldn't have attacked the cop. However it was the cop who initiated the contact over what is a non-offense.

 

[Arthur Dent]

Yep. If only cops just left everyone alone. People would stop getting killed by cops, and cops would quit getting killed by trash.

I'm going to propose a strict no public contact policy at my department. We will stop any and all contact with the public.

I'll let you know how that works out.

From what you are saying I take it you are a cop. I hope you are smarter than this when you are working. The kid did NOT break any laws or do anything that warranted being pulled over. The kid should NOT have attacked the cop, like I said (if you read that far before replying). But it was the cop who initiated the contact over a NON-offense that began all this.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I'm not in any way shape or form putting 100% of the blame on the cop. Like I said, the kid shouldn't have attacked the cop. However it was the cop who initiated the contact over what is a non-offense.

And I'm saying, whatever blame I might want to place on the officer (if any), it doesn't even begin to include the reason why he pulled the kid over in the first place.

 

[Arthur Dent]

And I'm saying, whatever blame I might want to place on the officer (if any), it doesn't even begin to include the reason why he pulled the kid over in the first place.

None of this would have happened if the cop hadn't pulled the kid over.

 

[churchmouse]

None of this would have happened if the cop hadn't pulled the kid over.

Having been pulled over in my youth and not knowing why I simply complied with the LEO's instructions and was on my way in pretty short order. If speeding or suspended..(yeah, it happened) I got my award.
Turns out there was no real reason for some of those stops but looking back at what I was driving and how I looked I am positive I was being "Hippie" profiled.
Probably could have been ticketed for a number of reasons but after a brief discussion and inspection of the car I was generally let go, again, if I was in compliance.
Worked for me.
If I had gotten rough verbally and or physically I am sure the curb stomp boogie would have commenced.

 

[You'll shoot your eye out]

Having been pulled over in my youth and not knowing why I simply complied with the LEO's instructions and was on my way in pretty short order. If speeding or suspended..(yeah, it happened) I got my award.
Turns out there was no real reason for some of those stops but looking back at what I was driving and how I looked I am positive I was being "Hippie" profiled.
Probably could have been ticketed for a number of reasons but after a brief discussion and inspection of the car I was generally let go, again, if I was in compliance.
Worked for me.
If I had gotten rough verbally and or physically I am sure the curb stomp boogie would have commenced.

Two points.....
1; CM is/was a damn hippie
2; The curb stomp boggie is a far cry from the .40 caliber dirt-nap.

 

[Dead Duck]

None of this would have happened if the [STRIKE]cop hadn't pulled the kid over[/STRIKE] kid had been taught manners.

FIFY

 

[Arthur Dent]

FIFY

You have no idea how the kid was raised or what he was taught. So you fixed nothing.

 

[actaeon277]

I was taught, no matter how right you are, argue your case in court. On the side of the road, possibly with no witnesses... no.

 

[Arthur Dent]

Having been pulled over in my youth and not knowing why I simply complied with the LEO's instructions and was on my way in pretty short order. If speeding or suspended..(yeah, it happened) I got my award.
Turns out there was no real reason for some of those stops but looking back at what I was driving and how I looked I am positive I was being "Hippie" profiled.
Probably could have been ticketed for a number of reasons but after a brief discussion and inspection of the car I was generally let go, again, if I was in compliance.
Worked for me.
If I had gotten rough verbally and or physically I am sure the curb stomp boogie would have commenced.

I am all for complying and being polite to any law enforcement. Makes it easier for both sides.

 

[Dead Duck]

You have no idea how the kid was raised or what he was taught. So you fixed nothing.

You're right, No I have no idea-
But I do know what he wasn't taught. Proofs on the [STRIKE]pudding[/STRIKE] video.