Mollie Tibbetts is dead because of...

[Twangbanger]

So, they're saying more womens' studies classes and sensitivity training would fix this?

Actually, I can roll with that. There's at least one girl from Parkland who authored an article stating Nikolas Cruz beat her at school. Sounds like toxic masculinity at work to me. Next time we have a mass shooting, I know what excuse I'm using.

As for any potential Gary Johnson-bots claiming walls don't work, I can't wait to see their plan for removing the walls from America's prisons. Since they don't work and all. I mean, someone escaped from them once, didn't they? See, there's my proof. I only need to find one individual.
​

 

[JeepHammer]

Now you are missing my point.....sigh.
You offered a lot of info as to why a wall is not the answer. I asked what you think we could do. Simple question really.

Do you by any measure think I do not know what has taken place and why. Of course I do. I am not a dummy nor am I out of touch. My point is she should not have been here. Now she is gone or is she. Back south. Gathered herself up and north again. Yes this happens every day but that is not the focus of this discussion.


Not sure I know exactly how to take your response. Nothing I said is even remotely worthy of all that. You are not the smartest man in the room. Not the opposite either. I can hold my own sir.

Actually, I was making a statement about the comments on that thread.

I saw no where you asked me about what we *Could* do with, or without a wall.
It wasn't the issue of the Molly post anyway.

We have done the best thing we could do under the circumstances, which was NAFTA, without crippling the US, the standard of living came up in Mexico and Mexican immigration slowed to a trickle.
NAFTA didn't do a thing for points south, where more than 50% of illegal immigrants come from when crossing the southern border.

I always enjoy the 'Mass Herds' comments having been to the border and seeing the pairs & small groups trickle in here & there.
I have to learn everything the hard way, my sister lives down there so I packed up the truck, night vision, desert gear and wasted 6 weeks of my life...
I'm sure *SOME* bad things happen, but what I directly saw with my own eyes was stragglers, and the border patrol chasing us down since we tripped the sensors... I saw a lot more border patrol than illegal immigrants.

What I want to point out about a 'Wall' is, most of the Mexican border isn't public land.
The same people that rant & race over imminent domain want private property to be taken for the wall and it's construction.
The second point would be roads, to build the wall they will have to build mostly direct roads, which would be highways for immigrants to use once they illegally enter.
North/south roads are intentionally scarce...
Then there will be the water issues, water is difficult to control, and that will be a giant crap fight, not to mention the damages water will do to any structure like a wall...

If you want an absloute answer, wouldn't you think someone would have already come up with it were it 'Simple'?
Without help from Mexico, and without a military reason (like Israel has) for a 2,000 mile wall, I just don't think it's an absloute answer.

With overstaying legal entry visas being a bigger issue, and passing right through customs on the way in, that's a pickle I can't produce an 'Easy' (bumper sticker/meme) plan for curbing that either.
I just don't have the conditioned response and immedately foam at the mouth anytime the subject comes up, it's going to be rational thought, probably comes from several directions, that solves these problems.
NAFTA brought the standard of living form 3rd world to 2nd in several places in Mexico, increased border patrol curbed some, a wall in the heaviest traffic areas might help...

Doesn't matter who is in office, if the wall goes through, it will be a bloated, convoluted, tax dollar money pit run by military contractors.

 

[Hawkeye]

Well, Jeephammer, I guess you’ve set all us idiots straight. A wall won’t work. So what will.

Rather than another lengthy monologue implying we are knee jerk racist idiots, why not give us the benefit of your vast and erudite knowledge and expertise. Tell us what will work.

To me the “wall” isn’t necessarily a concrete and metal physical barrier. It’s more of a metaphor for controlling the borders to our country. Making it more difficult to enter the country, undocumented, unapproved, and, yes, ILLEGALLY.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[churchmouse]

Actually, I was making a statement about the comments on that thread.

I saw no where you asked me about what we *Could* do with, or without a wall.
It wasn't the issue of the Molly post anyway.

We have done the best thing we could do under the circumstances, which was NAFTA, without crippling the US, the standard of living came up in Mexico and Mexican immigration slowed to a trickle.
NAFTA didn't do a thing for points south, where more than 50% of illegal immigrants come from when crossing the southern border.

I always enjoy the 'Mass Herds' comments having been to the border and seeing the pairs & small groups trickle in here & there.
I have to learn everything the hard way, my sister lives down there so I packed up the truck, night vision, desert gear and wasted 6 weeks of my life...
I'm sure *SOME* bad things happen, but what I directly saw with my own eyes was stragglers, and the border patrol chasing us down since we tripped the sensors... I saw a lot more border patrol than illegal immigrants.

What I want to point out about a 'Wall' is, most of the Mexican border isn't public land.
The same people that rant & race over imminent domain want private property to be taken for the wall and it's construction.
The second point would be roads, to build the wall they will have to build mostly direct roads, which would be highways for immigrants to use once they illegally enter.
North/south roads are intentionally scarce...
Then there will be the water issues, water is difficult to control, and that will be a giant crap fight, not to mention the damages water will do to any structure like a wall...

If you want an absloute answer, wouldn't you think someone would have already come up with it were it 'Simple'?
Without help from Mexico, and without a military reason (like Israel has) for a 2,000 mile wall, I just don't think it's an absloute answer.

With overstaying legal entry visas being a bigger issue, and passing right through customs on the way in, that's a pickle I can't produce an 'Easy' (bumper sticker/meme) plan for curbing that either.
I just don't have the conditioned response and immedately foam at the mouth anytime the subject comes up, it's going to be rational thought, probably comes from several directions, that solves these problems.
NAFTA brought the standard of living form 3rd world to 2nd in several places in Mexico, increased border patrol curbed some, a wall in the heaviest traffic areas might help...

Doesn't matter who is in office, if the wall goes through, it will be a bloated, convoluted, tax dollar money pit run by military contractors.

I completely agree with the last sentence.That is a given.

 

[churchmouse]

Oh I get your points. Completely. But I do think that some kind of hardened border will cut way back on the herds that roll over as we are all typing.
In all of this info I see the problems but what to do. What can we do to stop this crap. Hell I am good with most who are in my area as I have openly stated they have fixed up a lot around here but again....What to do.

Read the last sentence please. I asked what to do. More than once.

I do not intend coming off as a wise guy. I am anything but. At last in this. You have some solid opinions on what will not work JH.....

We need to do something.

 

[Hawkeye]

Read the last sentence please. I asked what to do. More than once.

I do not intend coming off as a wise guy. I am anything but. At last in this. You have some solid opinions on what will not work JH.....

We need to do something.

This.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[1DOWN4UP]

My wife has taught me doing nothing is easier then doing something.

 

[churchmouse]

My wife has taught me doing nothing is easier then doing something.

It is. But thn we can not gt alarmed when these things go south.

Look at the current rate of drunk driving/crashs/escapes from prosecution that involves those here under the radar. It will raise some eyebrows.

 

[1DOWN4UP]

It is. But thn we can not gt alarmed when these things go south.

Look at the current rate of drunk driving/crashs/escapes from prosecution that involves those here under the radar. It will raise some eyebrows.

Build it.A little bit of something is better then a whole lot of nothing.

 

[BugI02]

Actually, I was making a statement about the comments on that thread.

I saw no where you asked me about what we *Could* do with, or without a wall.
It wasn't the issue of the Molly post anyway.

We have done the best thing we could do under the circumstances, which was NAFTA, without crippling the US, the standard of living came up in Mexico and Mexican immigration slowed to a trickle.
NAFTA didn't do a thing for points south, where more than 50% of illegal immigrants come from when crossing the southern border.

[You ignore the concomitant effects of NAFTA on US standard of living. You argue that the wall should be rejected as an imperfect solution, yet you argue for NAFTA? Is tghis the old canard that we only have to reduce first world standard of living and raise third world SOL so we meet in the middle at second world and everybody will be happy. I'll have what you're drinking]

I always enjoy the 'Mass Herds' comments having been to the border and seeing the pairs & small groups trickle in here & there.

[A similar fallacy. The intimation is that you speak from greater authority because you have actually personally witnessed the situation. What you have actually witnessed is a tiny, specific segment of a large and diffuse problem. I live in Columbus, OH - can I meaningfully extend my experiences here with crime to generalize about crime in Indianapolis? I think not]

I have to learn everything the hard way, my sister lives down there so I packed up the truck, night vision, desert gear and wasted 6 weeks of my life...
I'm sure *SOME* bad things happen, but what I directly saw with my own eyes was stragglers, and the border patrol chasing us down since we tripped the sensors... I saw a lot more border patrol than illegal immigrants.

[There are well documented cases of bad things happening, and testimony by people who live in the area year round rather than on holiday. How many bad things are we expected to tolerate/live with - perhaps a pithy Sadiq Khan quote would serve your purpose]

What I want to point out about a 'Wall' is, most of the Mexican border isn't public land.
The same people that rant & race over imminent domain want private property to be taken for the wall and it's construction.

[I don't believe the land involved in an international border can actually be owned by a private individual and be private property. Access might require permission/eminent domain but I believe the feds already own the border]


The second point would be roads, to build the wall they will have to build mostly direct roads, which would be highways for immigrants to use once they illegally enter.
North/south roads are intentionally scarce...

[Ask Charlie Company why the wouldn't walk the road]

Then there will be the water issues, water is difficult to control, and that will be a giant crap fight, not to mention the damages water will do to any structure like a wall...

If you want an absloute answer, wouldn't you think someone would have already come up with it were it 'Simple'?
Without help from Mexico, and without a military reason (like Israel has) for a 2,000 mile wall, I just don't think it's an absloute answer.

[Yesss. We should adopt perfection as the standard and abandon all potential solutions that don't completely, 100% solve the problem they're directed at - cost/benefit analysis, too. You know, using those criteria, there goes Universal Basic Income and Universal Health Care and the Climate Accords etc. All those feel good social-justicey things can't breast that hurdle either]

With overstaying legal entry visas being a bigger issue, and passing right through customs on the way in, that's a pickle I can't produce an 'Easy' (bumper sticker/meme) plan for curbing that either.

[That's relatively easy, if we manifest the will. Fingerprinting/Biometric data taken in exchange for that visa. Crack down hard on states supplying a gateway into the legitimate system. Reference to the database in order to do anything that requires ID. Seriously onerous penalties (proportional to the assets of the lawbreaker) for violating restrictions. If we do a good job securing access to valid ID so that aliens must use their visa ID, US citizens would not be required to participate in the biometric screening. You can't make this work, however, with Cali handing out ID like candy. Good news is it's cheaper to whip Cali in to shape than it is to build a wall]

I just don't have the conditioned response and immedately foam at the mouth anytime the subject comes up, it's going to be rational thought, probably comes from several directions, that solves these problems.
NAFTA brought the standard of living form 3rd world to 2nd in several places in Mexico, increased border patrol curbed some, a wall in the heaviest traffic areas might help...

Doesn't matter who is in office, if the wall goes through, it will be a bloated, convoluted, tax dollar money pit run by military contractors.

I disagree. It does matter who is in office. An open borders/ let the new voters in administration will do nothing to solve the problem because to them it is not a problem

The quote of the form "Better is the enemy of ggod enough" has many historical threads, but the one that resonates for me is that quote from Sergey Gorshkov. Facing daunting problems as a Russian military commander in WWII, he clearly saw that insisting on having the best possible solution to a problem interfered with having any solution at all. T-34 wasn't perfect but it most certainly was good enough, same with the Mosin

 

[KellyinAvon]

Didn't this toxic masculinity crap get rolled out when the Weinstein story was breaking? A way to blame all men and push an agenda?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Didn't this toxic masculinity crap get rolled out when the Weinstein story was breaking? A way to blame all men and push an agenda?

[video=youtube;K8gyGNTsw_w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8gyGNTsw_w[/video]

 

[churchmouse]

[video=youtube;K8gyGNTsw_w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8gyGNTsw_w[/video]

They left in fear of the loss of their packages. Which is what is happening.

 

[DRob]

See my sig line! But in this case, doing nothing is the worst choice.

 

[churchmouse]

It is. But thn we can not gt alarmed when these things go south.

Look at the current rate of drunk driving/crashs/escapes from prosecution that involves those here under the radar. It will raise some eyebrows.

So as I suspected the "E" key on my laptop is Poo-Poo.
I have to put sim serious effort into it's use....

 

[DoggyDaddy]

They left in fear of the loss of their packages. Which is what is happening.

Seems a lot are giving them up voluntarily.

 

[churchmouse]

Seems a lot are giving them up voluntarily.

Yup. Sad times my friend. Sad times

 

[JeepHammer]

I think the term 'Toxic Masculinity' popped up in a research paper about roving gangs of street thugs.
Seems (no suprises to most of us) when large numbers of males go without strong father and strong role models present, they tend to go 'Lord Of The Flies' when raising themselves.

Apparently, it's been misinterpreted & misappropriated to mean all men need to act like 13 year old girls...
Someone with Dunning-Kruger had a web site, and I'm sure the man hating lesbians got hold of it.

I discount it out of hand since it doesn't reflect the intended research into gangs & entitled groups.
It's just blowhards parroting the phrase they didn't understand to begin with... Zero credibility, zero time wasted on the opinion.

Molly is dead because she crossed paths with a sociopath, or since he abducted, most probably raped, and murdered her, he would be classified as a psychopath since he went completely outside social norms.
This probably isn't the first time, and if he hadn't been caught, it wouldn't be the last time.
There is a reason we have maximum security prisons, this guy is a VERY good argument for those prisons.

 

[JeepHammer]

Yup. Sad times my friend. Sad times

"May You Live In Interesting Times" was actually a curse...

I survived the 70s with over 1,000 bombings a year, platform shoes, amphetamines & cocaine were NOT addictive, "Better Living Through Chemistry" poisoning everything & everyone, and the collapse of the family farm,
And where the hell is my flying car, jet pack, bionic back & artificial heart?

I survived the 80s mostly deployed in the Marines, places the US shouldn't have been doing things we shouldn't have done, selling high tech weapons to terrorist countries (Iran), selling chemical & biological weapons to Iraq, supplying both sides of three wars, supporting dictators, importing drugs into the US to pay for illegal wars,

I survived the 90s with defective cars from Detroit, drunk drivers, Monica's blue dress, and school shootings, 'Gangsta Rap' & 'baby's daddies',

I survived the 00s with militias, Y2k, phony tax 'rebates', 9/11/01, the 'Patriot Act', wars on two fronts & big banking stealing trillions, and school shootings, Dick Cheney & Halliburton stealing billions of taxpayer dollars, meth epidemic,

I survived the 10s so far with polarized population, 12/21/12, 'Consumer Economy', paid pundts telling me what I *Should* think, the most idiotic conspiracy theories ever dreamed up, and mass/school shootings, opioid epidemic,

Compared to being shot at by every kid that could build a slingshot in the 80s, and idiots setting off bombs everywhere in the 70s, this isn't so bad.
Even polarized and ranting, at least people aren't shooting & blowing things up regularly!
Even if they scream, talking isn't shooting...

"MORE COWBELL! WE NEED MORE COWBELL!"

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Are you saying it couldn't have?

A wall alone? Highly unlikely. An obstacle not backed by deadly force is just a speed bump. I've mentioned this multiple times from the historical and Combat Engineer perspective. Even the "Great Wall of China" failed, and it's job was largely to restrict trade.

The DMZ in Korea works because it will kill you. Even if completely unmanned, it's a lethal obstacle. A wall where the only penalty is getting put back on your side to try again? Pointless posturing.