Mollie Tibbetts is dead because of...

[JeepHammer]

A wall alone? Highly unlikely. An obstacle not backed by deadly force is just a speed bump. I've mentioned this multiple times from the historical and Combat Engineer perspective. Even the "Great Wall of China" failed, and it's job was largely to restrict trade.

The point of the great Wall was military, to keep Mongols out.
It didn't work.

The DMZ in Korea works because it will kill you. Even if completely unmanned, it's a lethal obstacle.

True.
But you omit the South side of the DMZ is defensive, designed to stop massed military movements,
While the North side is designed to keep population IN, as well as OUT.
It still doesn't stop immigrants from escaping south, to the tune of 50k to 100k a year, but mostly through China...

A wall where the only penalty is getting put back on your side to try again? Pointless posturing.

I agree. It's more of a political statement than a barrier.
Cities & populated areas have walls & fences, while in wide open spaces there is very little other than some barbed wire strands with signs hanging on them in places.
I saw places where a man in peak condition, and properly equipped, have a hard time getting around. Coyotes have a hard time getting around...

Populated areas are different, waiting a 'Creek' barely getting your ankles wet, with holes in the barriers faster than our side can patch them.
These CBP officers are BUSY!

Catch & release isn't perfect, but unless you want to blow up & shoot women & children, this isn't practical, not to mention illegal.
The moral issues are off the charts on this, this is something North Korea does, not the US.

Until Mexico gets it's business in order and stops the immigrants from South of it's border, and gets on board with it's side of the US border, the only option we have is round up and send back.
I'm NOT going to support a militarized border since Mexico poses no military threat.
If mines/machine guns do make it to that border, the Constitution is out the window, you have to ask yourself, "Who's Next"...

 

[bwframe]

They left in fear of the loss of their packages. Which is what is happening.

We're not all gone...

[video=youtube;K8gyGNTsw_w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8gyGNTsw_w[/video]

Better...

[video=youtube;p-dzl0XcDRo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-dzl0XcDRo[/video]

 

[OutdoorDad]

Molly is NOT dead because there is no wall.
She is dead because she was murdered. By a criminal. Walls, like door locks just keep out honest people.

Immigration is driven by perception of improved economic opportunities.

Access to housing, banking, and employment are far easier to control.

In this case, the murderer had been here for several years.

Duplicate use of SSN should be easy to catch. But the motivation for the government to do so is low.

Living a ‘cash only’ existence isn’t easy. And it could be made more difficult overnight.

Control of who can make money is far more effective than trying to control who can walk/swim/dig/fly/climb over a border.

 

[bwframe]

The wall shows how serious we are about enforcing our laws (or not.)

The reason the libs don't want it is so they can bribe enough votes (legal or not,) to win forever, using our tax dollars.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

The point of the great Wall was military, to keep Mongols out.
It didn't work.

That's the textbook blurb. Like most blurbs, it's true for a certain aspect but very simplified and incomplete. The Mongols were a threat for a small portion of time and a relatively small geographic area for the "wall", which was started well over 1500 years before anyone cared about Mongols as an invasion threat. The wall played economic and military roles at various points of it's non-tourist existence, but it wasn't built to keep Mongols out. Keep in mind that various Chinese dynasties went to great lengths to restrict trade, to the point of burning their fleets and banning ownership of seafaring vessels. Off topic, but China has centuries of practice of economic warfare.

Populated areas are different, waiting a 'Creek' barely getting your ankles wet, with holes in the barriers faster than our side can patch them.
These CBP officers are BUSY!

Catch & release isn't perfect, but unless you want to blow up & shoot women & children, this isn't practical, not to mention illegal.
The moral issues are off the charts on this, this is something North Korea does, not the US..

I've been on border patrol. I'm quite aware of how it works, or more accurately how it doesn't. Building a wall without lethal intent is pointless, wasted money and resources. You can't border-obstacle the problem away. Attacking the economic motivation for coming here illegally is how you fix it. Nobody in power really wants to fix it, though. It's a source of cheap labor and potential voters.

 

[Hawkeye]

The wall shows how serious we are about enforcing our laws (or not.)

The reason the libs don't want it is so they can bribe enough votes (legal or not,) to win forever, using our tax dollars.

This.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JeepHammer]

The wall shows how serious we are about enforcing our laws (or not.)

The reason the libs don't want it is so they can bribe enough votes (legal or not,) to win forever, using our tax dollars.

I call BS!
Doesn't matter what your political affiliations or groups, crime hits everyone.
Mental illness aside, serious crime is more common in cities where more liberal/progressive people tend to live.
Crime is an issue, it's equal and even application of the law that concerns those people, since they also have seen the reactionaries cause just as much damage/problems as criminals.

Tax dollars have always been used to deal with crime, it's the reason we are a democratic socialist country.
The social contract is police & courts deal with criminals, the same way the socialists snow plows clear your streets & socialists sewer lines carry off your waste.

The reason someone that doesn't chant "Build The Wall" thinks it through is because that $20+ Billon could put a LOT of officers on the streets, and the military contractors don't like that.
Thinking it through means we have doubts, and doubts means our brains are working, and we are willing to consider other options.

As for 'Bribes', there is a TON more gray & black money (semi-legal, illegal) funneled into the Republican side of things.
Keep in mind the think tank that devised the strategy had a member write a book called, the name will be censored here, so this link will give you the name of the book https://underratedreads.com/ratfked...plan-to-steal-americas-democracy-david-daley/

This will tell you EXACTLY how YOU got screwed using gray & black money, how the GOP laid out & carried out a plan to steal political seats for at least 2 decades.

Is that 'Politically Correct' enough it didn't hurt your feelings?

 

[Hawkeye]

I call BS!
Doesn't matter what your political affiliations or groups, crime hits everyone.
Mental illness aside, serious crime is more common in cities where more liberal/progressive people tend to live.
Crime is an issue, it's equal and even application of the law that concerns those people, since they also have seen the reactionaries cause just as much damage/problems as criminals.

Is that 'Politically Correct' enough it didn't hurt your feelings?

Jaysus, Mary and t’ Holy Ghost! Ye’re really plowin’ tru yer nooby goodwill.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JeepHammer]

Jaysus, Mary and t’ Holy Ghost! Ye’re really plowin’ tru yer nooby goodwill.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So...
You think someone that doesn't agree with tinfoil hat conspiracy crap, trying to connect two entirely different subjects needs 'Good Will'?

That would imply YOU think this is some 'Safe Space' for right wing radical & conspiracy theroy...

Or does someone with an alternative idea or opinion some how threaten you?

I'm aware these sites are on the internet, but this didn't seem to be one of them when I previewed the site before joining.
I saw extreme views, I wasn't aware these people needed safe spaces or protection.

Or did you mean something entirely different that you didn't express very well in a one line post?
I'm a Marine, I say exactly what's on my mind, and I have a lot on my mind... Seeing as how I read studies, text books, technical manuals and not the brain vomit from NAZIs, paid pundits, or the constant barrage of anti-american sludge from 'Social Media'.

If you have a point, please make it, one line hit & run posts leaves a big void in your intentions/intended purpose of the post.

 

[churchmouse]

 

[Hawkeye]

So...
You think someone that doesn't agree with tinfoil hat conspiracy crap, trying to connect two entirely different subjects needs 'Good Will'?

That would imply YOU think this is some 'Safe Space' for right wing radical & conspiracy theroy...

Or does someone with an alternative idea or opinion some how threaten you?

I'm aware these sites are on the internet, but this didn't seem to be one of them when I previewed the site before joining.
I saw extreme views, I wasn't aware these people needed safe spaces or protection.

Or did you mean something entirely different that you didn't express very well in a one line post?

No. I see someone relatively new to the group ranting and raging. History shows that this generally doesn’t bode well for a long life on INGO. Now, I’ll admit that I’ve not seen your posts other than on this topic, so maybe you’re really a stand up guy... I guess time will tell.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hawkeye]

So...
You think someone that doesn't agree with tinfoil hat conspiracy crap, trying to connect two entirely different subjects needs 'Good Will'?

That would imply YOU think this is some 'Safe Space' for right wing radical & conspiracy theroy...

Or does someone with an alternative idea or opinion some how threaten you?

I'm aware these sites are on the internet, but this didn't seem to be one of them when I previewed the site before joining.
I saw extreme views, I wasn't aware these people needed safe spaces or protection.

Or did you mean something entirely different that you didn't express very well in a one line post?
I'm a Marine, I say exactly what's on my mind, and I have a lot on my mind... Seeing as how I read studies, text books, technical manuals and not the brain vomit from NAZIs, paid pundits, or the constant barrage of anti-american sludge from 'Social Media'.

If you have a point, please make it, one line hit & run posts leaves a big void in your intentions/intended purpose of the post.

Later. Bye bye.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JeepHammer]

No kidding, popcorn & beer is a good idea...

The girl (Molly) was killed by a sociopath, or someone showing sociopathic traits.
Since the man in custody has (reportedly) confessed, and the attack was random/opportunistic according to both law enforcement & confession from the accused.

While the "Build The Wall" chanting types jumped right on the idea this guy *Might* be an undocumented immigrants, so far even the officials are confused about that particular idea and are investigating it.

Some how or another, as WAY TOO OFTEN HAPPENS, ANY voice other than theirs gets degraded, insulted, shouted down, even threatened.
All the while doing EXACTLY the things they attribute to the 'Liberals' or 'Snowflakes'...

I WANT to be called a 'Liberal', that simply means progressive.
I don't live in a cave, I don't ride a horse, I don't make my own cloths, I don't use rocks & stick, opting for 'Progress', a car, machine made cloths, a firearm, I'm progressive.
Build a better mouse trap & I'll use it.

I also support the rule of law,
I wait for investigators to do their jobs, I expect the justice system to deal with offenders, I expect (but don't always get) crooked politicians to wind up in jail, no matter what party they come from.

While a CRAP LOAD seem to rush to judgment, to hell with anyone's rights or due process...
They DEMAND their rights be upheld.
Doesn't work that way, it works the same for everyone, or it works for no one.

You either support the Rule Of Law for EVERYONE,
OR,
The law of the jungle dictates you are lunch for anyone that can catch & kill you.
There is no in-between, no gray area, if you don't support investigation & due process, you don't deserve protection from any of this same laws/protections.

You choose.
It's the Constitution & rule of law, forget that tinfoil hat, paid pundit crap,
Or you become slave or dinner for anyone that gets a lucky shot in.

I've seen it happen first hand, so think carefully before you crap on anyone else, someone is ALWAYS above you and they will eventually crap too.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but don't think YOUR ideas/'Beliefs' are the ONLY way to do things, or you are 'Superior' to anyone else.

 

[JeepHammer]

No. I see someone relatively new to the group ranting and raging. History shows that this generally doesn’t bode well for a long life on INGO. Now, I’ll admit that I’ve not seen your posts other than on this topic, so maybe you’re really a stand up guy... I guess time will tell.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Supporting rule of law, the Constitution is 'Ranting & Raving'?
Disagreeing with things that haven't worked anyplace else (the wall) is ranting & raving?
Pointing out the disparity when someone tries to connect two entirely different subjects is ranting & raving?

You will have to be more clear on what 'Ranting & Raving' you are talking about for a direct address to your statement...

I'm not Lush Dimbulb, if you want a rant, listen to that crap.

 

[Hawkeye]

Supporting rule of law, the Constitution is 'Ranting & Raving'?
Disagreeing with things that haven't worked anyplace else (the wall) is ranting & raving?
Pointing out the disparity when someone tries to connect two entirely different subjects is ranting & raving?

You will have to be more clear on what 'Ranting & Raving' you are talking about for a direct address to your statement...

I'm not Lush Dimbulb, if you want a rant, listen to that crap.

It’s “raging”. Not “raving”. Let’s drop our “conversation”, eh?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Lex Concord]

Didn't this toxic masculinity crap get rolled out when the Weinstein story was breaking? A way to blame all men and push an agenda?

Sounds about right. It's often about pushing the agenda.

 

[Libertarian01]

A border wall would've prevented this?

No. But I believe the lack of a border wall promoted this.

When people fail to respect the ideal of a "law and order" society civilized interactions break down.

During the 1920's the temperance movement pushed through the Eighteenth Amendment, prohibiting the sale, transportation, or manufacturing of alcoholic beverages. Overnight, this turned millions of law abiding citizens into criminals. The general population became inured to bootlegging and organized crime in order to get their booze. Everyone knew Al Capone was a criminal but they didn't care because he was supplying their whisky.

This in turn, to a slight degree, acclimated the American people to the idea that breaking the law was acceptable, in some cases even necessary. Obedience to the law became less of a priority in the social fabric of America.

Now comes a person who is here illegally. His entire existence on one (1) side of a national line is a criminal act. Millions of illegal immigrants are of the same mindset. As the general American societies respect for the Volstead Act declined, so too did their overall respect for laws. I believe it is somewhat the same with illegal immigrants. Break one law, nothing happens. I'm not hurting anyone. Drive on an illegal plate, or false drivers license? So what? I'm not really hurting anyone.

The more people break the law and simply put, social norms, the more comfortable they are in doing so. This then leads to a breakdown of respecting boundaries and norms.

How can we expect someone to respect a woman's right to say "no" when their existence here is an act of criminality. Sure, most do. And perhaps my analogy here does not apply. But I do believe that tolerating millions of people here criminally does contribute to an overall decrease in respect for law and order. At some point a petty criminal will become more and more aggressive unless there are consequences to their illegal activities. Sadly, in this case, the consequences can never repair the damage done to friends, family, and loved ones.

Regards,

Doug

PS - Good to see you back.

 

[Hawkeye]

No. But I believe the lack of a border wall promoted this.

When people fail to respect the ideal of a "law and order" society civilized interactions break down.

During the 1920's the temperance movement pushed through the Eighteenth Amendment, prohibiting the sale, transportation, or manufacturing of alcoholic beverages. Overnight, this turned millions of law abiding citizens into criminals. The general population became inured to bootlegging and organized crime in order to get their booze. Everyone knew Al Capone was a criminal but they didn't care because he was supplying their whisky.

This in turn, to a slight degree, acclimated the American people to the idea that breaking the law was acceptable, in some cases even necessary. Obedience to the law became less of a priority in the social fabric of America.

Now comes a person who is here illegally. His entire existence on one (1) side of a national line is a criminal act. Millions of illegal immigrants are of the same mindset. As the general American societies respect for the Volstead Act declined, so too did their overall respect for laws. I believe it is somewhat the same with illegal immigrants. Break one law, nothing happens. I'm not hurting anyone. Drive on an illegal plate, or false drivers license? So what? I'm not really hurting anyone.

The more people break the law and simply put, social norms, the more comfortable they are in doing so. This then leads to a breakdown of respecting boundaries and norms.

How can we expect someone to respect a woman's right to say "no" when their existence here is an act of criminality. Sure, most do. And perhaps my analogy here does not apply. But I do believe that tolerating millions of people here criminally does contribute to an overall decrease in respect for law and order. At some point a petty criminal will become more and more aggressive unless there are consequences to their illegal activities. Sadly, in this case, the consequences can never repair the damage done to friends, family, and loved ones.

Regards,

Doug

PS - Good to see you back.

Not 100% sure on this, but I don’t think your “standard” illegal alien is committing a criminal act by being in the US. I think it’s a civil violation, not criminal, per se.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Libertarian01]

Not 100% sure on this, but I don’t think your “standard” illegal alien is committing a criminal act by being in the US. I think it’s a civil violation, not criminal, per se.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is a criminal act to enter the country without going through proper channels. The being isn't, except when they use a fake SSN to get a job, or false information to do other things. The breakdown compounds one after the other.

Regards,

Doug

 

[Hawkeye]

It is a criminal act to enter the country without going through proper channels. The being isn't, except when they use a fake SSN to get a job, or false information to do other things. The breakdown compounds one after the other.

Regards,

Doug

At best, I think it’s a misdemeanor unless coupled with something else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk