Multiple people shot in Manhattan.

[JettaKnight]

So, if a guy who never joined the Marines, buys a uniform, says he's a Marine and on his own goes somewhere and attacks some people he figures the U.S. would want him to attack, he's treated as an enemy combatant by wherever he did that, right?

It's more complicated when you're fighting an army that doesn't have uniforms.

 

[HoughMade]

I think the point is that if ISIS sent a guy here to do something, that's one thing. If a guy says "ISIS is neat, I sure wish I was in ISIS" and does something he figures they would want him to do, that's another.

I don't get this fear of using the criminal justice system. Unless it's clear, under established guidelines, that another path is proper, when a crime is committed here, that's what should be used.

This guy would assure you, if he could, that the criminal justice system can work:

 

[T.Lex]

I hear ya on that BUT being at war / having violent conflict with that community in particular is a problem with a long history .
Admittedly my history-fu is weak but I don't recall stories of conflicts where western cultures have clashed with other cultures as much / as long , as they have with islam .

Coincidentally, the anniversary of the start of Protestantism was a couple days ago.

In this kind of conversation, though, I think it is important to differentiate between "modern" history and otherwise. There was a certain calm, perhaps complacency, between Islam and the West for centuries. An uneasy truce might be the best description, with occasional skirmishes. (The Ottoman Empire might've helped assure that at some level.)

The modern history involving terrorism is different, and should be acknowledged as such. My preferred term is "islamofascism" to denote the difference between mainstream and radical.

 

[IndyTom]

Public trial on TV with an announcer speaking in Arabaic or whatever most of these guys speak. One who had his daughter raped and killed by ISIS. I know... how are you going to narrow down the list of candidates for the position?

Broadcast it for the whole world to see. Then shoot him in the courtroom when it's over.

Does he get covered in the pig skin/parts before or after being shot?

 

[T.Lex]

Always odd to me how quickly the constitutional principles that we rely on in one context are abandoned in other contexts.

 

[Kutnupe14]

So, if a guy who never joined the Marines, buys a uniform, says he's a Marine and on his own goes somewhere and attacks some people he figures the U.S. would want him to attack, he's treated as an enemy combatant by wherever he did that, right?

Is the guy a legal permanent resident of the place he committed that crime? If the guy flew here from his home nation, and committed the act that occurred in NYC, then yeah, enemy combatant.

 

[actaeon277]

...
In this case, I think it is an objectively good thing that this guy sucked at logistics. If he had done a "better" job and obtained real guns, it would've been worse.

I don't think he needed guns for that.
As Blue Falcon mentioned, he could have picked a better time.

Or he could have picked a more crowded place.

Or he could have been a "better" driver.

 

[OakRiver]

can green card holders legally buy guns

Yup. I have purchased guns through a local FFL and underwent a NICS background check for each purchase.

 

[actaeon277]

 

[jamil]

I guess, I can only use the most obvious logic. The series of events that led to the Beer Summit occurred on July of 2009. I joined INGO January of 2011. So I could not have originally responded to it. But given that the Gates episode has been repeated often on this site, I present this:



It is from this thread: https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...obama-issues-statement-zimmerman-verdict.html
The post #11.

I would still like to stress that posts should be about subject matter and content, and not individual members. The latter, from time to time, backfires.

It would be good if we could have a gentlemen's agreement not to have to dig up prior posts. My memory isn't all that great and I certainly don't want to spend my time digging up old **** that I may not even agree with anymore, just to prove that I did or didn't say something. 2013 kinda don't matter anymore.

 

[2A_Tom]

I guess, I can only use the most obvious logic. The series of events that led to the Beer Summit occurred on July of 2009. I joined INGO January of 2011. So I could not have originally responded to it. But given that the Gates episode has been repeated often on this site, I present this:



It is from this thread: https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...obama-issues-statement-zimmerman-verdict.html
The post #11.

I would still like to stress that posts should be about subject matter and content, and not individual members. The latter, from time to time, backfires.

I was posting simultaneously as you posted this so I did not see it until now. I do remember that and I agree, mostly.

 

[Vigilant]

Again, logistics appears to have been this guy's blind spot.

I'm reading that he'd been planning it for some amount of time. I remain skeptical of that.

If as they say, he had planned it for some time, we’re lucky he’s most likely the lowest common denominator as far as ISIS bad boys goes. Months or weeks of planning and the best he could come up with was a HD pick up truck, a couple of fake guns, and some knives?

 

[Denny347]

Always odd to me how quickly the constitutional principles that we rely on in one context are abandoned in other contexts.

Indeed, lots of hypocrites.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Another interesting thing, from a comment earlier in this thread (that I assume has been corrected), is that the terrorist did not use guns. Unless anyone could possible believe that he simply did not want them, then that plays well into the hands of the left. When one compares the tools used in Vegas vs NYC, it's completely fair for the left to point out the respective body counts. Not saying I agree (I certainly don't), but one certainly acknowledge that it os probable that the difficulty in obtaining a firearm in NYC probably saved lives.

Except from what I can find out, he still had a FL DL and wasn't officially a resident of NY yet. He had a vehicle and could make a short drive to any state that allowed long gun purchases by residents of non contiguous states, such as PA I believe. For handguns he would have needed to make a longer trip down to FL.

look like in NY you can only get a hunting rifle if you have a hunting license, no other guns

You can buy rifles/shotguns with a hunting license, so any NY legal for hunting long gun would be allowed for purchase. But see above.

You can even buy guns if you're a foreigner with no green card it you take part in some international shooting event I think.

If here under a non-immigrant visa (work/tourist/etc), you can purchase/possess if attending a firearm trade show, firearm competition, hunting, etc. That is under fed law, state law may vary.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

(2)Exceptions.—Subsections (d)(5)(B), (g)(5)(B), and (s)(3)(B)(v)(II) do not apply to any alien who has been lawfully admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa, if that alien is— (A) admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States;

Again, logistics appears to have been this guy's blind spot.

I'm reading that he'd been planning it for some amount of time. I remain skeptical of that.

According to what I've seen, he said he's been planning it for a year. IIRC he didn't intend to hit the bus, was planning on going to a nearby bridge and was hoping to get people out for Halloween.

Is the guy a legal permanent resident of the place he committed that crime? If the guy flew here from his home nation, and committed the act that occurred in NYC, then yeah, enemy combatant.

How many people have we locked up as unlawful enemy combatants when they were in their home country? And while not an exact match Jose Padilla comes to mind, heck a judge even blocked his transfer to civilian courts instead of a military tribunal once. While he was eventually transferred, I can't find any court decision that said he had to have been. Not saying I agree with it or not, just saying.

 

[printcraft]

This community in particular might want to think twice about the risks of attributing violent/homicidal characteristics held by the most vile members of their community to the larger community.
.

muslims are gun owners too...... so .... logic.

 

[Sylvain]

If here under a non-immigrant visa (work/tourist/etc), you can purchase/possess if attending a firearm trade show, firearm competition, hunting, etc. That is under fed law, state law may vary.

Thanks.It's what I thought.
You need to sell the guns before leaving the county though, unless you have some export paperwork.

 

[T.Lex]

muslims are gun owners too...... so .... logic.

Yeah, you should definitely try it more.

 

[printcraft]

Yeah, you should definitely try it more.

I'm trying to follow yours but it's like.... dude.....

Seems like muslim gun owners are not the ones committing these attacks.....

 

[T.Lex]

I'm trying to follow yours but it's like.... dude.....

Seems like muslim gun owners are not the ones committing these attacks.....

Ok, now you have me confused. What do you think my post means?

 

[printcraft]

Ok, now you have me confused. What do you think my post means?

Lumping people into a bigger group, al la las vegas shooter etc. and using that as a basis of actions.
I'm just going a step beyond to show that the gun owner analogy doesn't really stand up, IMHO.