Non-snarky explaination of why Sabenzas are cool

[2500ekW]

Last weekend at the 1500 was the first time I've ever seen a Sabenza in person. Of course, I jumped at the chance to fondle one. I asked the young man if I could take a look at it, and also asked him to point out the features that make it so special and explain them to me. After a less than fantastic sales pitch from him ("If I have to explain it to you, it isn't the knife for you"), I handled it for a few minutes, gave it back, and walked away. I have a fairly nice collection of Benchmades, Spydercos, Kershaws, and ESEEs at home, so I'm not a knife newbie. I've simply not moved into that price range yet. "Chris Reeve invented the framelock" or "the tolerances are very tight" won't get me there, either. I'm not trying to pick a fight, just looking for info. Someone PLEASE explain what is up with them.

 

[ruger1800]

Status symbol, like a Rolex, caddy,Mercedes,...........

 

[ModernGunner]

When a pocket knife is, +/-, the same price as a decent handgun, I'll just buy the handgun.

 

[Dean C.]

Its one of those things that is very hard to explain. To most people it looks very "plain jane". What makes it cost so much (cost being a subjective term here) is the workman ship that goes into the knife. Chris Reeve or CRK has won the Manufacturing Quality Award at BLADE show over 10 times because the product his shop puts together is basically perfect. The hollow grind on the blades are perfectly symetrical and that is a task easier said than accomplished. The blade steel is a very high end S35VN that CRK actually helped develop. The full titanium frame lock is so well made and fit that even after thousands of openings the lockbar will stay in the same place (a feat by most knives standards).

Then on top of the materials, and workmanship you have the fact that all the knives are made in the USA in Idaho. Plus the lifetime warranty when you send your sebenza to the shop for a "spa" treatment CRK will resharpen the knife for you, fix and and all problems, and they even refinish the Ti scales so they look brand new. The best comparison I can really think of is in the watch world. Sure a Citizen Eco-Drive will keep the time very well and you will probably not need another one, but on the other hand an Omega Seamaster is on a totally different level and costs allot more but "only" does the same exact thing. It is the materials, and time that went into making the knife that justify the cost.

Most people on INGO will say what is stated exactly what was said above why spend that much money on a knife when you can buy a gun? Personally I have allot of "high end" knives most in the $400+ range, to me they are not just knives but a treasured tool that I will have forever that one day my kids can fight over. Then there is the pride of ownership aspect, literally every time I clip my custom SJ75 to my pocket I smile because behind that knife there is a story that means allot to me.

I was in the same spot you were several years ago wondering why knives like this cost so much. I had to do allot of research before I could figure it out personally. Then when I did take the plunge all I could think of was damn I just spent $475 on a knife (Strider SMF)!!! Then when I got it honestly I was kind of underwhelmed with it possibly thinking I made a mistake. Then after about a week of carrying it and using it more and more I began to appreciate the workmanship of it all and how well it worked compared to say spyderco or benchmade (not that they are bad knives at all). Now after having that same SMF for almost 4 years now I cant think of a knife I would rather have in all honesty.

It is a very complex subject to explain, but I hope this explanation works for you or at least helps a little bit.

 

[Expatriated]

That's a good explanation. For me, I've come full circle on the folders. I started as a kid carrying Swiss Army Knives. Later, I moved into carrying Spydercos, then Al-Mar and Emersons, then Striders, Greyman and Sebenzas.

Me personally, I realized that while I appreciate the craftsmanship and awesomeness in those high end knives, I don't really appreciate them when I'm actually using them. So, I ended up selling all of them and I'm back to Swiss Army knives as folders 20 years later.

My fixed blades are still high-end cause when I need a fixed blade, I REALLY need a fixed blade. Generally when I need a folder, I just need to cut some string or whittle a stick, not chop myself out of a Humvee that's on fire behind enemy lines.

The Sebenza's are great knives. Smooth and rock solid and still one of the standard setting folders even after all these years. But, if they don't strike you that way, don't worry about trying to "get it". Find what you like and appreciate and stick with that.

Some of the most unhappiest people I know are those that bought the stuff OTHER people thought was great.

 

[UGaARguy]

Sebenzas are great because they're so precisely made, as Dean has so eloquently explained. However, I'd only rate Crucible S35VN as a high end steel, and not a very high end steel. S35VN is very good, but it's eclipsed by Crucible's own S90V and S110V, Carpenter's XHP, Uddeholm's Elmax, and Bohler's M390 (IMO, of course).

 

[Dean C.]

Sebenzas are great because they're so precisely made, as Dean has so eloquently explained. However, I'd only rate Crucible S35VN as a high end steel, and not a very high end steel. S35VN is very good, but it's eclipsed by Crucible's own S90V and S110V, Carpenter's XHP, Uddeholm's Elmax, and Bohler's M390 (IMO, of course).

Yeah I need to update my mental "Super Steel" list I know lol!!!

 

[jsharmon7]

I owned an Umnumzaan for a little while before I traded it off. It was by far the nicest knife I'd ever owned in terms of fit and finish. When it locked into place it was extremely smooth and solid. The blade was extremely sharp and well-designed. All the components seemed to be of the highest quality and I couldn't find any flaws in it at all. It really was a Rolex compared to a Casio in terms of quality. It was a knife that really felt like a high quality tool that you could own for a lifetime. It was like comparing an old Craftsman wrench to a Chinese wrench you buy at Dollar Tree. I traded it because I realized my needs in a knife weren't Rolex needs. I have knives I've carried quite a bit and never used for anything more than opening an envelope or cutting a loose thread. Some folks may use pocket knives on a daily basis, but I hardly ever find the need for one. In that regard I just couldn't justify keeping a $300 knife around when a $30 Kershaw does the same job. If someone is a knife enthusiast or collector, I can see why they would want a Sebenza or other higher end knife. For someone like me who hardly ever takes the knife out of his pocket, it just wasn't necessary.

 

[rhino]

So . . . the latest version of the Sebenza claims a hollow grind that combines the best qualities if a hollow grind and full flat grind.

Does it?

 

[Dean C.]

So . . . the latest version of the Sebenza claims a hollow grind that combines the best qualities if a hollow grind and full flat grind.

Does it?

Yes the Sebenza 25 does is it called the "large hollow grind" Chris says the hollow grind is there just very very small when looking very close you can see it. The 25 also features thicker blade stock and a more pronounced finger choil as well as a ceramic ball on the lock face.

 

[rhino]

Yes the Sebenza 25 does is it called the "large hollow grind" Chris says the hollow grind is there just very very small when looking very close you can see it. The 25 also features thicker blade stock and a more pronounced finger choil as well as a ceramic ball on the lock face.

How well does it slice compared to previous version?

 

[95wrangler]

Ive been watching a lot of Jim Skelton on Youtube. If you listen to the way he explain all the details of certain knives, you will understand why he will drop thousands on one knife. He is very passionate about his knives and what he likes.

 

[Limpy88]

I completely agree with Dean Crail on CRK. And others knives in that price range. Quality, materials, craftsmanship Also CRK is not a high volume shop like benchmade, syderco, Kershaw. Those guys probably pump out In a day what CRK does in year. KAi (kershaw parent) has 3 factories in 3 countrys, spyderco probably has more. And benchmade has at least 2. Thier lone wolf and other cheaper lines are made over seas some where. When you have that kinda of mass production you can maintain lower profit margin, due to the the quanity that is sold. When you run on much, much lower production number you need the profit margin to be a little higher so you can stay aflot.

Can you buy a foreign made ti frame lock for $150. Bascily the same idea as a CRK. Yes. But the knife wont be as soild. Probably have hot spots. The lock bar will probably wear fast, since I doubt for that price it will be treated. The blade wont stay as sharp as long, I doubt the heat treat will even come close to being CRK standards. And it will be worth half of what you paid after you open the package.

 

[seedubs1]

Its still a status symbol, and you're paying for the name in my opinion. Your points on production volumes are also relevant.

A lot of the new titanium frame locks out these days are equal to CRK's in my opinion, and cost less. Let's take a Spyderco Schempp Tuff for example (maybe not your bag of tea, but we're just talking about materials, function, and fit and finish here). Full titanium lock side, yet it employs a steel lock interface that will take more abuse than the treated CRK full Ti lock face. It also has better steel in CPM 3v (and Spyderco does phenomenal in the heat treat department). Fit and finish of the Taichung Spydercos is every bit as nice as a CRK in my opinion as well. All of the ones I've handled are completely flawless. Dead nuts blade centering, no blade play, lock up at or under 50%, and very nice action and detent. All for less than half the price of a CRK (got mine for $170 new from a reputable dealer).

Now, that doesn't mean you shouldn't buy a CRK. You should save up and get one if you like it. It just means that for me, I can get something else that is absolutely of the same quality level for cheaper. It won't get the ooooh's and aaaaah's a CRK will, and it won't retain as much value on the used market. But I don't care about those things (but maybe you do, and that's ok too).

Can you buy a foreign made ti frame lock for $150. Bascily the same idea as a CRK. Yes. But the knife wont be as soild. Probably have hot spots. The lock bar will probably wear fast, since I doubt for that price it will be treated. The blade wont stay as sharp as long, I doubt the heat treat will even come close to being CRK standards. And it will be worth half of what you paid after you open the package.

 

[Dean C.]

How well does it slice compared to previous version?

I currently do not own any CRK knives at the moment so I cannot comment.

 

[Bradsknives]

Its still a status symbol, and you're paying for the name in my opinion. Your points on production volumes are also relevant.

A lot of the new titanium frame locks out these days are equal to CRK's in my opinion, and cost less. Let's take a Spyderco Schempp Tuff for example (maybe not your bag of tea, but we're just talking about materials, function, and fit and finish here). Full titanium lock side, yet it employs a steel lock interface that will take more abuse than the treated CRK full Ti lock face. It also has better steel in CPM 3v (and Spyderco does phenomenal in the heat treat department). Fit and finish of the Taichung Spydercos is every bit as nice as a CRK in my opinion as well. All of the ones I've handled are completely flawless. Dead nuts blade centering, no blade play, lock up at or under 50%, and very nice action and detent. All for less than half the price of a CRK (got mine for $170 new from a reputable dealer).

Now, that doesn't mean you shouldn't buy a CRK. You should save up and get one if you like it. It just means that for me, I can get something else that is absolutely of the same quality level for cheaper. It won't get the ooooh's and aaaaah's a CRK will, and it won't retain as much value on the used market. But I don't care about those things (but maybe you do, and that's ok too).

Please tell me where I can buy a BNIB Spyderco Tuff (model C151GTIP) for $170.00...that is way below dealer wholesale cost.....I'd buy a **** load for that price.

 

[seedubs1]

If you can't find one for $170, you can get them for $210 to $230 all day long on Amazon (their prices on a lot of goods shift pretty frequently). Regardless, it's a significantly less expensive knife than a sebenza, and is quite comparable in terms of quality.

Got out mine from overstock.com and used a 20% off coupon I had in my email box. Came out to $170 with free shipping. Looks like they're out of stock now.

I typically figure out a knife I want and wait at least a few months until I find a really good deal. I never pay anywhere close to standard street prices.

Please tell me where I can buy a BNIB Spyderco Tuff (model C151GTIP) for $170.00...that is way below dealer wholesale cost.....I'd buy a **** load for that price.

 

[ghuns]

Do I need a CRK or a Wilson Combat 1911? No.

Do I want them? Yeah.

But I can tell the difference between components fit within .0001 if an inch and those fit at .001.

Sadly, my wallet is also able to tell the difference. So I'll stick with a ZT and a Kimber.

 

[2500ekW]

The best comparison I can really think of is in the watch world. Sure a Citizen Eco-Drive will keep the time very well and you will probably not need another one, but on the other hand an Omega Seamaster is on a totally different level and costs allot more but "only" does the same exact thing.

You almost convinced me because I hope to own an Omega Seamaster someday.... BUT, if I went out to cut twine off straw bails to lay in a chicken coop, the Omega would be upstairs and a Gshock would be on my wrist. The Sabenza would probably be in the safe and a Griptillian would be in my pocket.

Thanks everyone for the good info.

 

[other dave]

Please tell me where I can buy a BNIB Spyderco Tuff (model C151GTIP) for $170.00...that is way below dealer wholesale cost.....I'd buy a **** load for that price.

I'd take any that you don't want.