Non-snarky explaination of why Sabenzas are cool

[seedubs1]

$170, and that left me some $ for some gumballhead.

 

[ghuns]

$170, and that left me some $ for some gumballhead.

I now see the logic.

 

[M67]

I never really was a Sebenza person. Didn't like the action or the looks. Love my tanto Umnumzaan though

Value in anything depends on the buyer

 

[Limpy88]

Its still a status symbol, and you're paying for the name in my opinion. Your points on production volumes are also relevant.

A lot of the new titanium frame locks out these days are equal to CRK's in my opinion, and cost less. Let's take a Spyderco Schempp Tuff for example (maybe not your bag of tea, but we're just talking about materials, function, and fit and finish here). Full titanium lock side, yet it employs a steel lock interface that will take more abuse than the treated CRK full Ti lock face. It also has better steel in CPM 3v (and Spyderco does phenomenal in the heat treat department). Fit and finish of the Taichung Spydercos is every bit as nice as a CRK in my opinion as well. All of the ones I've handled are completely flawless. Dead nuts blade centering, no blade play, lock up at or under 50%, and very nice action and detent. All for less than half the price of a CRK (got mine for $170 new from a reputable dealer).

Now, that doesn't mean you shouldn't buy a CRK. You should save up and get one if you like it. It just means that for me, I can get something else that is absolutely of the same quality level for cheaper. It won't get the ooooh's and aaaaah's a CRK will, and it won't retain as much value on the used market. But I don't care about those things (but maybe you do, and that's ok too).

I have to disagree with you on fit and finish. The CRK are the best production fit and finish knives I have handled. I have a few LE ZT's, hinderers, benchmades. And have handled and/or used most popular sydercos. No customs yet. But CRK still are a notch above the rest in those terms.

 

[Tactically Fat]

I want a Grayman Dua.

Or about 15 different Medfords. *sigh*

Yes, you pay for materials, experience, assembly, and workmanship. At a certain point you also pay for the NAME.

An unknown maker can churn out "knives just like CRK" - but can't charge the same for them because the maker is unknown.

 

[Dtrap]

$170, and that left me some $ for some gumballhead.

well your photo is an example in itself. That beer is a great deal more expensive than many many other beers of good quality. Yet people are willing to pay more for their preference in taste and style. In the end the beer gets you the same result just might taste better to someone while drinking it. To many people beer is beer and lots of people would think paying that much for a beer is crazy. That beer uses higher quality ingredients and is made in much smaller batches giving it an overall better quality and taste. Much like the precision that goes into a higher end knife vs a production knife. They may seem similar at a glance or upon handling but a closer look at the manufacturing process and materials used and there is defiantly a difference.

 

[rhino]

well your photo is an example in itself. That beer is a great deal more expensive than many many other beers of good quality. Yet people are willing to pay more for their preference in taste and style. In the end the beer gets you the same result just might taste better to someone while drinking it. To many people beer is beer and lots of people would think paying that much for a beer is crazy. That beer uses higher quality ingredients and is made in much smaller batches giving it an overall better quality and taste. Much like the precision that goes into a higher end knife vs a production knife.

 

[tradertator]

well your photo is an example in itself. That beer is a great deal more expensive than many many other beers of good quality. Yet people are willing to pay more for their preference in taste and style. In the end the beer gets you the same result just might taste better to someone while drinking it. To many people beer is beer and lots of people would think paying that much for a beer is crazy. That beer uses higher quality ingredients and is made in much smaller batches giving it an overall better quality and taste. Much like the precision that goes into a higher end knife vs a production knife. They may seem similar at a glance or upon handling but a closer look at the manufacturing process and materials used and there is defiantly a difference.

Absolutely spot on. The comment about a mass produced Taiwan made folder having the same fit / finish as a hand fitted one built by probably the most respected guy in the business is almost laughable.

 

[tradertator]

I understand what the OP is asking, and I also understand what the dealer meant by "If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand". There are people out there that simply don't appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into a custom / semi custom good such as a knife, and he's probably tired of explaining it to the "I could buy a gun for that much" crowd. Hamburger and filet mignon are both beef afterall, and a Chevette will most likely get you to your destination as likely as a Corvette. And that's alright because there are a lot of great options out there for everyone's individual taste and budgets. I appreciate what goes into one, and I'm willing to pay for it. But I completely understand if someone is just as happy with a Benchmade or Spyderco.

 

[Bradsknives]

 

[seedubs1]

Theres quite a few levels of quality in both Spyderco and benchmades product line. Some of the upper tier of Spydercos line is on par with CRK. I'm not talking about the standard stuff you see everywhere. I can't speak to benchmade. Don't like them, so I have no experience. They're just not my cup of tea..

Its just taboo in the knife world to say that anything compares to CRK but full on $2000 customs. I don't agree with it. There's stuff out there that's every bit the quality for a good chunk less money. Production manufacturing techniques have come a long way since CRK first started producing knives. Back then, there were no production knives that compared. Simply not the case these days. I'd really like to hear the justification for why a Schempp Tuff is not on par with a CRK. I gave a lot of examples regarding why I feel it's on par and potentially a bit nicer in some areas (not talking about style, etc... Just talking about quality).

And I'm sick of the overseas argument. Buy USA made if it makes you happy. But made across seas no longer necessarily means it's inferior in quality (although there is plenty of junk made across seas. You just have to know what you're buying).

But I do agree with the above statements regarding people buying whatever trips their trigger. If you like CRK, more power to you. They're quality knives. Same with me and beer. I'm not drinking schlitz because I don't like it. Does the same thing in the end, but I like other stuff.

But I completely understand if someone is just as happy with a Benchmade or Spyderco.

 

[grunt soldier]

Knives are stupid. Mtechs are just as good as CRK. You could buy several guns for the prices of a lot of these knives.

Me personally I use my gun everyday way more than I use my fully custom chinese strider from ebay. I even paid extra to get the high end heat treated juicy fruit wrapper stainless steel. I just can't bring myself to use this beauty. I'll just stick with my custom mtechs. I personally don't think i could spend money like thst on a useless tool

Ps not a dig at the op at all. Just for fun and to mess with the shoulda bought a gun crowd Who alwsys end up posting in the cutting edge for some reason

 

[tradertator]

Theres quite a few levels of quality in both Spyderco and benchmades product line. Some of the upper tier of Spydercos line is on par with CRK. I'm not talking about the standard stuff you see everywhere. I can't speak to benchmade. Don't like them, so I have no experience. They're just not my cup of tea..

Its just taboo in the knife world to say that anything compares to CRK but full on $2000 customs. I don't agree with it. There's stuff out there that's every bit the quality for a good chunk less money. Production manufacturing techniques have come a long way since CRK first started producing knives. Back then, there were no production knives that compared. Simply not the case these days. I'd really like to hear the justification for why a Schempp Tuff is not on par with a CRK. I gave a lot of examples regarding why I feel it's on par and potentially a bit nicer in some areas (not talking about style, etc... Just talking about quality).

And I'm sick of the overseas argument. Buy USA made if it makes you happy. But made across seas no longer necessarily means it's inferior in quality (although there is plenty of junk made across seas. You just have to know what you're buying).

But I do agree with the above statements regarding people buying whatever trips their trigger. If you like CRK, more power to you. They're quality knives. Same with me and beer. I'm not drinking schlitz because I don't like it. Does the same thing in the end, but I like other stuff.

I think we had a similar discussion in the past comparing a dressed up 870 Express VS a Police model. You might not appreciate something that is hand fitted with tighter quality control, and that's perfectly fine. There are some of us that do and are willing to pay for it, and that's why there is a market for such. That doesn't make either of us wrong. And I am well aware of modern manufacturing processes and how easily they are to transition to Asia using near slave labor. I used to work on a CNC, and saw our companies business get outsourced overseas. It was cheaper to exploit cheap labor than pay us, and the product is nearly the same due to modern manufacturing. That's the world we live in, and I can accept that.

ZT makes an excellent product, and an 0560 is going to perform nearly the same as a Hinderer. I just believe a knife that is hand fitted and sharpened by the guy that puts not only his name on it, but his irrefutable reputation in the industry, is going to get a bit more attention that which is mass produced in Taiwan. Not to mention the R&D that went into the design, and the decision to make a much smaller batch of product (much like craft beer in your picture), than that which is mass produced. A lot of that is probably along the lines of what Dean was saying about pride of ownership. That's not taking a dig at Spyderco, that's simply how I feel. I currently own around a dozen of their knives, and have had a few dozen more over the years. They're great, and make an excellent product...... but I appreciate my CRK stuff more. I also don't think you need a "$2000 custom" to receive a top notch product. There is definitely a plateau that once you go past, you're paying for the "art" more than the product itself, such as a MSJ / Dwyer / Starlingear type custom product. I can appreciate those too though, and would never criticize someone that decided to spend the money on it, because it's a functional piece of art and is worth whatever the consumer is willing to spend on it.

This is why I sympathize with guys like Brad that carry a nicer product, and understand the frustration in which the dealer spoke with to the OP, when he replied "If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand" (no offense to the OP whatsoever).

 

[seedubs1]

Not all Asian countries use slave labor. And Taiwan is a democracy. I have no issues buying things from Taiwan. I actually have relatives in Taichung. Been there a few times, and they sure aren't paying slave labor wages. I can tell you that. But a dollar does go a heck of a lot further there. Breakfast for $0.15 was pretty awesome.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Every one of the Schempp Tuffs I've picked up has had every bit the fit, finish, and attention to detail as the CRKs I've had (and note that I consider a CRK a production knife. A high end production knife, but a production knife none the less. And a lot of others will agree with that). And the Tuff has a 3v blade and steel lock bar insert to boot. I no longer have any CRKs. Sold them off.
(note, I'm just using the Tuff as an example. There's other knives of the same caliber out there that you could use as an example as well.)

But then again, I don't buy knives as art or collectibles. That's cool if that's what someone is into. I can definitely appreciate that, and every collector should own a frame lock from the inventor. And I can definitely see the appeal of owning knives from some of the custom makers out there as well. It's certainly a cool thing to own a knife made by the guy that designed it.

 

[UGaARguy]

Some of the upper tier of Spydercos line is on par with CRK.

No, they aren't. Spyderco has won a single Manufacturing Quality Award, and that was back in 1988. CRK has won the award 13 of the 15 years from 2000-2014. Spyderco makes good knives, but they aren't CRK knives. I also don't think Taiwanese knives are the value you think they are. Spyderco's high end Taiwanese knives have the same or higher MSRPs as / than comparable USA made knives from ZT.

yet it employs a steel lock interface that will take more abuse than the treated CRK full Ti lock face.

The Sebenza 25 has a ceramic ball lock face that's harder than hardened steel. Yet, I've also handled an early Sebenza that a friend has carried nearly every day for almost 20 years. This knife has been used hard on his large family property in TN, and the lockup is still rock solid.

Now, despite all my affection for CRK, I still bought a ZT 0801 last year at Blade. That's because I wanted a USA made, high end blade steel, ball bearing pivot, flipper opening, Ti frame lock knife. I thought that particular ZT at about $180 was a great value, and it had the features I wanted.

 

[Dtrap]

Some people just refuse to see the value that a higher end knife brings to the table. It like comparing a Kimber to a custom Ed Brown. The Kimber is made of high quality materials and the fit and finish are top notch and will last lifetime but as nice as they are they don't have near the tolerances and attention to detail of the Ed Brown. Spyderco is not even close to the same thing. I don't own a CRK and have no intention of purchasing one but I do own many custom folders costing much more than a CRK that I carry and use hard daily. I've owned many spyderco knives and love them but they don't hold a candle to higher end knives. Just no way around it.

 

[Dean C.]

Some people just refuse to see the value that a higher end knife brings to the table. It like comparing a Kimber to a custom Ed Brown. The Kimber is made of high quality materials and the fit and finish are top notch and will last lifetime but as nice as they are they don't have near the tolerances and attention to detail of the Ed Brown. Spyderco is not even close to the same thing. I don't own a CRK and have no intention of purchasing one but I do own many custom folders costing much more than a CRK that I carry and use hard daily. I've owned many spyderco knives and love them but they don't hold a candle to higher end knives. Just no way around it.

This is also a good comparison

 

[seedubs1]

Thanks for your opinion. But it's not a fact.

No, they aren't.

 

[churchmouse]

When a pocket knife is, +/-, the same price as a decent handgun, I'll just buy the handgun.

Exactly.............

 

[Bradsknives]

Exactly.............