Odd statement from police

[thompal]

I'm not faulting the body cam officer at all, the officer behind the door obviously had his finger on the bang switch...

Exactly! And I fault the claim by the chief that there was no negligence or carelessness. There were at least two violations of the 4 rules, which would seem to define careless and negligent.

By claiming that it was a simple accident, he has removed any awareness of why the 4 rules are so important, and removed any urgency for follow-up training. And if they aren't going to stress the 4 rules, which are meant to prevent exactly this type of thing, then maybe they need to add another thing which could have prevented this - a safety!

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Exactly! And I fault the claim by the chief that there was no negligence or carelessness. There were at least two violations of the 4 rules, which would seem to define careless and negligent.

By claiming that it was a simple accident, he has removed any awareness of why the 4 rules are so important, and removed any urgency for follow-up training. And if they aren't going to stress the 4 rules, which are meant to prevent exactly this type of thing, then maybe they need to add another thing which could have prevented this - a safety!

This is the same Chief that lectured us the day after Christmas that we peasants better be careful and accept responsibility for carrying guns and get training like his rock star officers.

However, to expect the Chief to come out and say "Man, we really suck and need to do more training" is less than realistic.

I was very mad over the press conference, however, objectively, I should expect no other position.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

By claiming that it was a simple accident, he has removed any awareness of why the 4 rules are so important,

Half of INGO will fight you over the importance of the Four Rules.

 

[Denny347]

Do officers get any training for dealing with dogs?

Typically, no.

 

[nipprdog]

2. That is not a bumbling idiot. That is someone subject to divided attention. You must train deeply to get beyond that behavior. The question is: are you trained beyond that?

 

[Spear Dane]

Chief's statement was silly and wrong. One officer shot by another = defacto ND.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Wright is behind the door screwing with the dog cage. Google up "sympathetic squeeze response" to find out what likely happened.
.

I will say as a left handed man that had the tendons all cut across my wrist as a young man
( so all four of my fingers tend to move togeather from the scar tissue ) if he was using an isolated trigger finger like the two other officers were using and it was on the frame where it belongs he wouldn't have pulled the trigger.. JMHO

 

[Spear Dane]

Do officers get any training for dealing with dogs?

ATF does. Shoot first, ask no questions.

 

[Denny347]

2 minute 30 second from shot to ambulance. I heard that was unpossible!

Who said such a thing? Ohhhhhhh, you're being SARCASTIC.....I get sarcasm...

 

[2A_Tom]

pdog, tell them about training out the sympathetic squeeze.

Seems like training to keep your finger off the trigger, negates the need to train out a sympathetic squeeze.

 

[amboy49]

Three thoughts. One - having a safety on a firearm is meaningless if the gun is in firing mode and the gun owner has his(or her) finger in the trigger. Therefore, I dismiss the theory of the lack of a gun manual safety contributing to this incident.

Second, it appears the injured officer voluntarily (although asssisted) walked to the police car, then fastened her own seat belt, then walked to the ambulance and got in. Why in Heaven’s name weren’t the ambulance personal out of the ambulance and assisting her in ? It didn’t appear as if they had just rolled up coming to a screeching halt. I don’t have a lot of bona fides, but I did work on a small fire department as a fighter and a licensed EMT for several years and I seeem to recall helping our patients into our rescue squad whenever possible rather than have them get themselves in. Perhaps the assistance was there and I just didn’t see it.

Lastly, from the standpoint of the female officer who was shot. If the officer providing assistance called me “baby” one more time I think I would have shot him. Their medical skills were far from rudimentary - and that’s being very generous.

 

[phylodog]

What happened with the officer who fired the shot once he was no longer on camera? Did the dog make it out of the crate? Did the dog bite him? Did the dog knock him over? I'd like to know what happened.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

What happened with the officer who fired the shot once he was no longer on camera? Did the dog make it out of the crate? Did the dog bite him? Did the dog knock him over? I'd like to know what happened.

That's a good question for sure, what difference do you think any of that would change the outcome of a finger on the trigger?
I see that both male officers were on the front porch right with her.

 

[Trigger Time]

And these people are supposed to protect us? Bumbling idiots!

Theyre Humans. Yeah they will learn from this and hopefully so will others. They have dangerous jobs and their SOP's are written in the blood of their brothers and sisters. I'd still take them over most of ingo

 

[2A_Tom]

I was as confused as the officers on scene when they asked if he had shot her with his taser. Someone asked did you have your taser out. I saw what I thought was taser confetti. Something wasn't making sense, until Phylo posted the pic of the hole in the door.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Two thoughts. One - having a safety on a firearm is meaningless if the gun is in firing mode and the gun owner has his(or her) finger in the trigger. Therefore, I dismiss the theory of the lack of a gun manual safety contributing to this incident.

I can agree with that, I'm a double action pistol guy, preferably a 226 or a 228-9 pistol.
I was taught for carrying or at work at least the first shot, you should be well aware that you are firing your handgun.. Well Aware... 12 to 15 lbs and you know you are shooting your pistol, 3 1/2 to 5 lb triggers*** not so much.. JMO

 

[Dead Duck]

Two thoughts. One - having a safety on a firearm is meaningless if the gun is in firing mode and the gun owner has his(or her) finger in the trigger. Therefore, I dismiss the theory of the lack of a gun manual safety contributing to this incident.

Second, it appears the injured officer voluntarily (although asssisted) walked to the police car, then fastened her own seat belt, then walked to the ambulance and got in. Why in Heaven’s name weren’t the ambulance personal out of the ambulance and assisting her in ? It didn’t appear as if they had just rolled up coming to a screeching halt. I don’t have a lot of bona fides, but I did work on a small fire department as a fighter and a licensed EMT for several years and I seeem to recall helping our patients into our rescue squad whenever possible rather than have them get themselves in. Perhaps the assistance was there and I just didn’t see it.

1st Thought -
I'm the one who brought up the safety thing. I was just ragging on Glocks because they suck and have no actual working safety.



.....and they're ugly.

 

[bwframe]

Is it best practice to search with your weapon light as the officer in the video did?

 

[Itchytriggerfinger]

Can we preserve this thread for future generations that want to know the definition of an armchair quarterback?

 

[phylodog]

That's a good question for sure, what difference do you think any of that would change the outcome of a finger on the trigger?
I see that both male officers were on the front porch right with her.

I could see several scenarios which could cause an involuntary tightening of the entire hand. Might that put the finger on the trigger? Possibly.

Might dealing with a large dog which, contrary to what some have said, seemed pretty damned irritated to me and appeared to be trying to get out of that kennel convince someone that they may have to shoot the dog to protect themselves? I reckon it's possible.

The possibility that this officer experienced a set of circumstances which none of us has faced is pretty substantial. I'm not going to sit back, pound my chest and proclaim that I'm better than he is.

I've had my finger on the trigger plenty of times, hundreds of times and never pulled it. I've had handguns pointed at several with my finger on the trigger and never pulled it. Some are better suited to the job than others but this thread serves as a shining example of why this country is finding it difficult to recruit capable men and women for the job.

As far as the weight of a trigger is concerned, be it 3.5lbs, 5lbs, 12lbs or 100lbs if nothing pulls the trigger a Glock isn't going to go off. A 12lb does nothing but ensures that officers will struggle to put one round out of 50 on target in a stressful situation. 5lbs is perfectly acceptable and I base that off just a wee bit of experience.