open carry stopped by hobart pd while pumping gas

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  • ArcadiaGP

    Wanderer
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    Really? No one has said this yet. Shut up, call Guy Relford and ask his thoughts.

    Sounds like an expensive and time-consuming way of telling a cop he was wrong. Unless my rights were seriously trampled on, or I've been involved in a SD situation, I'm not sure I could justify contacting a lawyer.


    Granted, I've never had to work with one... and unless Guy works pro-bono...
     

    jedi

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    In all seriousness, I agree in commending OP for his handling of the situation. It was graceful, calm, based in fact, and delivered without emotion. I'm going to guess he's thought through what to say in this situation before.

    This is the the OP's first time being harrased by the JBTs for OC.
    In fact at this gas station location OP had been harrased before!

    Once the LTCH was presented, why the driver's license? He was not driving, and he had already presented an ID.

    Confiscate the gun? No threatening gestures, no threats made, voice not raised....

    Pointing the gun at the OP, great weapons handling there Mr 20+ years Officer.

    Because it's second nature for JBTs to ask for DL to know who you are when they stop you. While OP was not (yet) driving he was at a gas station with his car and was going to drive away so the JBT figured OP would have DL instead of just state ID or military ID.


    @???
    OP is active reserve IIRC.

    @OP
    Disappointed that JBT did not put his boot on your neck.
    I'm sure "you know who (female)" would have LLLOOOVVVEEEE if that happened to you. ;)
     

    dansgotguns

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    This is the the OP's first time being harrased by the JBTs for OC.
    In fact at this gas station location OP had been harrased before!



    Because it's second nature for JBTs to ask for DL to know who you are when they stop you. While OP was not (yet) driving he was at a gas station with his car and was going to drive away so the JBT figured OP would have DL instead of just state ID or military ID.


    @???
    OP is active reserve IIRC.

    @OP
    Disappointed that JBT did not put his boot on your neck.
    I'm sure "you know who (female)" would have LLLOOOVVVEEEE if that happened to you. ;)

    L. M. A. O.

    Oh and jedi is right, ive had cops talk to me but never taking my firearm except once during a traffic stop.
     

    cobber

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    It is incumbent on the officer to articulate what crime he suspects the citizen of committing. This officer failed to do so before he detained and searched the citizen.

    Articulable =/= articulate to the suspect/subject. Officer has to be able to justify subsequently, or it's Mr. Exclusionary Rule.
     

    actaeon277

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    It's criminal offense to carry a firearm in Indiana without a license to carry, Indiana isn't an "open carry" state like others that allow it without a LTCH. So, an officer can ask and you can be arrested for carrying without a LTCH if you don't either provide the LTCH or info for the officer to check.

    And the LTCH was provided.
     

    Mark 1911

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    Which gas station did this happen at?

    I frequently OC through Hobart on my bicycle because the bike path passes through there. My wife and I frequently stop and take a break at the gazebo on the lake downtown. One bike path starts on the east side of town, the other on the west side. You have to ride through town to get from one bike path to the other. I have been passed on the street by Hobart squads several times and have never been questioned about my OC. Seems like there is always that one person who has to make things difficult. :dunno:

    Good luck getting a positive resolution on this. Please follow up.
     

    dansgotguns

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    Which gas station did this happen at?

    I frequently OC through Hobart on my bicycle because the bike path passes through there. There is a stretch where on bike path ends, and you have to ride through town to pick it up again on the other side of town. I have been passed on the street by Hobart squads and have never been questioned about my OC. Seems like there is always that one person who has to make things difficult. :dunno:

    Good luck getting a positive resolution on this. Please follow up.



    6 and county line
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    In your opinion, what is the best way to respond to an officer that is making assertions like the ones in the video?

    Assertions? Well, some stuff copper said is wrong, but what have we learned INGO? Right, the police CAN lie to you.

    Just shut up. Close your bacon hole and relax. If you have Larry, then carry. He wants to "run your license"? Ok, run the license and then skip away. You are cool, not breaking the law.

    Besides, what can you do? Run away like the guilty? Run in circles screaming "meye rye-eets"? Nah, just stand there. He wants the Larry, give it to him. He wants your DL, welll, OK, if you want to avoid a big argument, give it to him (coppers want the DL because they have more training telling those are fake or not).

    By carrying a handgun we are breaking the law. Pooooleeece are bugging us because we are breaking the law by carrying, until the burden shifts and we show that we are not breaking the law.

    If we are stopped, relax. Just stand there, be quiet and show him Larry and then be on your way and be merry.:D

    I think all handgun classes in Indiana should have a section on traffic stops and police encounters. But that's just me.
     

    88GT

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    With all of his years of experience behind him, did he remember to check for a concealed back up gun?
    For all the intelligence LEOs seem to think they are operating from in justifying the seizure of "a" firearm, I am amazed at the disregard for the possibility that others exist. Except now we get into the meat of the 4th. Searching for and seizing any others would be a clear violation of the 4th. The reality of that statement throws into doubt the legality of confiscating a holstered one in plain sight absent any other reason to take it. Which makes me think it boils down to a power trip, "you will respect my authorit-ay" action. "I can go this far and be questionably legal, but if I go farther on the same logical basis I used to confiscate the first gun, I'm crossing the line, so I'll just do what I can get away with doing."


    And the LTCH was provided.
    And shouldn't the whole encounter have stopped right there?
     

    HoughMade

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    Kirk,

    Are you saying that you would not be first in line to take on this lawsuit with a contingency fee and you fronting litigation costs?
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    It pains me to say this, but I don't see the copper doing anything "wrong".

    I mean he was short with the OP (long, hot day dealing with a-holes [not the OP] will do that) and made a few incorrect statements of law but this ain't the bar exam question on Criminal Procedure.

    Dan, it is within your best interests to consult with an attorney to ensure that all your rights are preserved.
     

    TheSpark

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    It pains me to say this, but I don't see the copper doing anything "wrong".

    I mean he was short with the OP (long, hot day dealing with a-holes [not the OP] will do that) and made a few incorrect statements of law but this ain't the bar exam question on Criminal Procedure.

    Dan, it is within your best interests to consult with an attorney to ensure that all your rights are preserved.

    I believe the officer actually committed a criminal offense. So yes, he did do something wrong if I'm right. When he forcibly took the gun for no reason off his person he committed theft. Despite the fact that he is a cop he has no right, or power, to confiscate a gun like that for no reason. Since he was being detained illegally (which was the case) it was theft pure and simple. By the way, that is a felony.
     
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    dansgotguns

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    Contacting a lawyer didn't originally cross my mind I just wanted to talk to the Chief and see if he would correct his officers. Then I started thinking about my own gun being ripped from my holster for no reason, so im going to speak to some lawyers just to get opinions and such. Idk I feel like the conversation shouldve been over when I showed my license, and I definitely shouldn't have had my weapon seized when I said I didn't consent, especially when I didnt do anything wrong.
     

    cce1302

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    But that would require additional $$ for training the dispatchers that they would not be comfortable with (getting accurate descriptions of the OCers actions to determine if there is truly a threat, or just a threat perceived by a bedwetting anti gunner). I dont think any reasonable amount of training would prepare a desk jockey dispatcher to interpret the situation via an untrained caller. Not saying I wouldnt like to see it happen myself. "Caller, it is legal to carry a firearm in a holster. Is this man yelling? acting erratically? What? He's just pumping gas? Get a clue caller and stop reporting legal activity." One misstep of a dispatcher telling a caller to go away would be percieved as disastrous if 20 minutes later the same guy used the gun for an illegal act. The antis would pounce on that trying to tell the sheeple if the cop had only gone to harass the OCer while he was still within his rights the later illegal act would not have been committed. :rolleyes:


    At least they could better inform the officers: "MWAG reported, but no illegal activity suspected." which hopefully could result in a friendly "hey there. whatcha up to? Just pumping gas? OK. Somebody called saying you had a gun and I had to make sure you werent up to no good. Looks to me like you are fine. Have a nice day citizen."

    Come to think of it, is there any time dispatch will tell callers to pound sand?

    I guess I figured that most dispatchers are smarter than a box of rocks and can pick up simple concepts relatively easily.

    Doesn't seem like a million dollar proposition to me, but I guess bureaucracy can get out of hand when they want it to.
     
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