open carry stopped by hobart pd while pumping gas

[Indy_Guy_77]

Well, since you're playing bar stool attorney, hopefully someone here will take your advice and refuse to show their LTCH or give any info and get locked up, maybe you can go bond them out.

Aren't you also playing bar-stool attorney?

What are your bona fides, by the way?

 

[dudley0]

OP, I think that you did a great job at not getting crappy with the officer. I gotta figure out how to get my phone to go to camcorder that fast.

While I am not a firm believer in the 'lawsuits for anything' system I do believe that this should be addressed. At least with the Chief, if not with a lawyer.

Had an officer come to my personal property out in the sticks and tell me I couldn't discharge a firearm from there. I asked why and he said I needed to take that up with his Lieutenant. I scoffed at that and told him so.

On a side note... the comment about the ammo being old made no sense at all. Almost as if he was trying to change the topic at hand or some such.

 

[dansgotguns]

OP, I think that you did a great job at not getting crappy with the officer. I gotta figure out how to get my phone to go to camcorder that fast.

While I am not a firm believer in the 'lawsuits for anything' system I do believe that this should be addressed. At least with the Chief, if not with a lawyer.

Had an officer come to my personal property out in the sticks and tell me I couldn't discharge a firearm from there. I asked why and he said I needed to take that up with his Lieutenant. I scoffed at that and told him so.

On a side note... the comment about the ammo being old made no sense at all. Almost as if he was trying to change the topic at hand or some such.

Yea I actually wouldve been able to record more but the screen lock was on. Luckily my video recorder is on my home screen with a few other apps so it wasnt but 2 butons after unlocking the screen. I almost didn't record cuz the look he gave me as I reached into my pocket, which I realized while grabbing my phone had my knife in it. From now on knife and phone are going in different pockets.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

What? An officer creating law on-the-spot? Color me shocked.

You handled it well. Unfortunately, he did not.

 

[dansgotguns]

What? An officer creating law on-the-spot? Color me shocked.

You handled it well. Unfortunately, he did not.

Ya know, I read the "whered you see oc today" thread every couple of days and always see you on there, im mostly just reading and never posting there because I see OC probably on average twice a year not including ingo events. Stuff like this is exactly why in northwest indiana OC is rare.

 

[Slawburger]

United States v. Black, 707 F.3d 531, 540 (4th Cir. 2013) (“Where a
state permits individuals to openly carry firearms, the exercise of this right, without more, cannot justify
an investigatory detention.”).


IANAL. However, I read that as applying in states with "constitutional carry" where a firearm may be openly carried without a license/permit. Where it says "permits" I read "allows without a special license". In Indiana openly carrying a handgun without an LTCH is not a protected right. Confirming an LTCH by asking to see it or asking for information that would allow it to be confirmed would seem to be legal for a LEO.
might
Note1: This is just a layman's opinion and could be incorrect.
Note2: Suggesting it might be legal does not imply it might be right.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

United States v. Black, 707 F.3d 531, 540 (4th Cir. 2013) (“Where a
state permits individuals to openly carry firearms, the exercise of this right, without more, cannot justify
an investigatory detention.”).


IANAL. However, I read that as applying in states with "constitutional carry" where a firearm may be openly carried without a license/permit. Where it says "permits" I read "allows without a special license". In Indiana openly carrying a handgun without an LTCH is not a protected right. Confirming an LTCH by asking to see it or asking for information that would allow it to be confirmed would seem to be legal for a LEO.
might
Note1: This is just a layman's opinion and could be incorrect.
Note2: Suggesting it might be legal does not imply it might be right.

You are correct to the best of my knowledge as well. This statute does not apply to Indiana but to states like KY and OH.

 

[Compatriot G]

I would also point out that decisions from the 4th Circuit Court are not binding on Indiana. Indiana is a part of the 7th Circuit Court.

 

[BravoMike]

Slightly off topic here, but I think it still applies. Can someone post the IC that states when one must provide ID, I can't seem to find it. Also, in Indiana, does one have to produce DL when asked by LEO if they are driving a vehicle and no laws were broken?

 

[cce1302]

I think you handled it as well as you could have. You sounded very calm.


It's too bad the police officer hassled you. He had no authority to detain you without RAS.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Speaking as to general information here:

The United States Fourth District Court of Appeals encompasses the southern states of Maryland, Virginia, and North Carolina, and the Union state of West Virginia. Indiana is in the United States Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals.

Carriyng a handgun is a crime in Indiana. The license is an affirmative defense. Any stop for carrying a handgun (a crime) off one's property (there is a case on this as well) in Indiana will likely be deemed reasonable under the federal and state cnostitution a la the carry case in Georgia which has a similar statute.

Indiana has no "show papers because I said so" statute. If you are suspected of an ordinance violation or infraction you must present ID or tell the officer who you are. If you are not operating a motor vehicle there is no statute requiring that you show your driver's license.

 

[wtfd661]

 

[cce1302]

to the police officer: You know, maybe if you told people that carrying a firearm is legal when they call you, they'd stop calling you to report legal activity.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Speaking as to general information here:

The United States Fourth District Court of Appeals encompasses the southern states of Maryland, Virginia, and North Carolina, and the Union state of West Virginia. Indiana is in the United States Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals.

Carriyng a handgun is a crime in Indiana. The license is an affirmative defense. Any stop for carrying a handgun (a crime) off one's property (there is a case on this as well) in Indiana will likely be deemed reasonable under the federal and state cnostitution a la the carry case in Georgia which has a similar statute.

Indiana has no "show papers because I said so" statute. If you are suspected of an ordinance violation or infraction you must present ID or tell the officer who you are. If you are not operating a motor vehicle there is no statute requiring that you show your driver's license.

In your opinion, what is the best way to respond to an officer that is making assertions like the ones in the video?

 

[cce1302]

Speaking as to general information here:

The United States Fourth District Court of Appeals encompasses the southern states of Maryland, Virginia, and North Carolina, and the Union state of West Virginia. Indiana is in the United States Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals.

Carriyng a handgun is a crime in Indiana. The license is an affirmative defense. Any stop for carrying a handgun (a crime) off one's property (there is a case on this as well) in Indiana will likely be deemed reasonable under the federal and state cnostitution a la the carry case in Georgia which has a similar statute.

Indiana has no "show papers because I said so" statute. If you are suspected of an ordinance violation or infraction you must present ID or tell the officer who you are. If you are not operating a motor vehicle there is no statute requiring that you show your driver's license.

It is incumbent on the officer to articulate what crime he suspects the citizen of committing. This officer failed to do so before he detained and searched the citizen.

 

[dansgotguns]

Speaking as to general information here:

The United States Fourth District Court of Appeals encompasses the southern states of Maryland, Virginia, and North Carolina, and the Union state of West Virginia. Indiana is in the United States Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals.

Carriyng a handgun is a crime in Indiana. The license is an affirmative defense. Any stop for carrying a handgun (a crime) off one's property (there is a case on this as well) in Indiana will likely be deemed reasonable under the federal and state cnostitution a la the carry case in Georgia which has a similar statute.

Indiana has no "show papers because I said so" statute. If you are suspected of an ordinance violation or infraction you must present ID or tell the officer who you are. If you are not operating a motor vehicle there is no statute requiring that you show your driver's license.

Sooo what are your thoughts on everything in the video?

 

[Cameramonkey]

Yea I actually wouldve been able to record more but the screen lock was on. Luckily my video recorder is on my home screen with a few other apps so it wasnt but 2 butons after unlocking the screen. I almost didn't record cuz the look he gave me as I reached into my pocket, which I realized while grabbing my phone had my knife in it. From now on knife and phone are going in different pockets.

Tip: Nothing should go in your pocket but your phone. I've replaced a back and two screen protectors because I had other hard objects in the same pocket. things like keys, change, etc tend to scratch up your phone.

Speaking as to general information here:

The United States Fourth District Court of Appeals encompasses the southern states of Maryland, Virginia, and North Carolina, and the Union state of West Virginia. Indiana is in the United States Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals.

Carriyng a handgun is a crime in Indiana. The license is an affirmative defense. Any stop for carrying a handgun (a crime) off one's property (there is a case on this as well) in Indiana will likely be deemed reasonable under the federal and state cnostitution a la the carry case in Georgia which has a similar statute.

Indiana has no "show papers because I said so" statute. If you are suspected of an ordinance violation or infraction you must present ID or tell the officer who you are. If you are not operating a motor vehicle there is no statute requiring that you show your driver's license.

But isnt it reasonable suspicion if the person is not at home or work and is doing something like pumping gas? If you arent operating, then how did you get there? Im thinking kinda the same logic they can bust you for OWI simply because you are in the car with the keys in your hand, etc.

to the police officer: You know, maybe if you told people that carrying a firearm is legal when they call you, they'd stop calling you to report legal activity.

But that would require additional $$ for training the dispatchers that they would not be comfortable with (getting accurate descriptions of the OCers actions to determine if there is truly a threat, or just a threat perceived by a bedwetting anti gunner). I dont think any reasonable amount of training would prepare a desk jockey dispatcher to interpret the situation via an untrained caller. Not saying I wouldnt like to see it happen myself. "Caller, it is legal to carry a firearm in a holster. Is this man yelling? acting erratically? What? He's just pumping gas? Get a clue caller and stop reporting legal activity." One misstep of a dispatcher telling a caller to go away would be percieved as disastrous if 20 minutes later the same guy used the gun for an illegal act. The antis would pounce on that trying to tell the sheeple if the cop had only gone to harass the OCer while he was still within his rights the later illegal act would not have been committed.


At least they could better inform the officers: "MWAG reported, but no illegal activity suspected." which hopefully could result in a friendly "hey there. whatcha up to? Just pumping gas? OK. Somebody called saying you had a gun and I had to make sure you werent up to no good. Looks to me like you are fine. Have a nice day citizen."

Come to think of it, is there any time dispatch will tell callers to pound sand?

 

[lonehoosier]

Sooo what are your thoughts on everything in the video?

 

[Andy219]

Tagging in for later, right now it's time for bed.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Really? No one has said this yet. Shut up, call Guy Relford and ask his thoughts.