police academy question

[Trigger Time]

Im not saying don’t buy her a rifle, but it’ll be a good long time before she has a chance to get to go to rifle school. We have folks with 5 years on who don’t have seniority to get to the school right now. Last year we only trained about 40 new rifle officers.

Why is this VUPD?
Lack of training officers or training hours, or facilities? Or just need for rifle officers?
If its a funding issue maybe some well placed calls and emails or a council meeting visit from concerned citizens would help?
Probably against the odds of passing but you'll never get a yes if you are afraid to ask. Right? Plus i love being pen pals to politicians

Junk, congrats on your grandaughter making it this far. Let us know when she graduates.

The cool thing is that several of the guys in this thread are likely to be the ones she trains with. She will be in great hands.
Thank her for her service too please.

 

[devildog70]

Pfff, Trijicon is not on the approved list. They must really like battery operated optics.

They like optics that work in all lighting conditions, and don't get washed out by bright light.

 

[devildog70]

Im not saying don’t buy her a rifle, but it’ll be a good long time before she has a chance to get to go to rifle school. We have folks with 5 years on who don’t have seniority to get to the school right now. Last year we only trained about 40 new rifle officers.

Current recruits will come out of the academy certified on both rifle and shotgun.

 

[devildog70]

To answer the OP, my personal recommendation would be:

BCM
SOLGW
Colt
LMT
Geissele
Hodge
KAC
DD
Citizen Arms
LWRC
S&W
FN

With a special nod to SOLGW. Their support for LE is tough to beat, in terms of duty weapons. If it gets taken to the Property Room because of a shooting, or if it gets damaged on duty, they replace the rifle, as it sat. They also offer a decent LE discount.

I own a Larue. It's a wonderful precision rifle. I would not recommend one as a duty rifle.

For optics, Aimpoint PRO is a reasonable, solid option.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Current recruits will come out of the academy certified on both rifle and shotgun.

Good for them, but that rifle certification is a slap in the face to veteran officers.

 

[devildog70]

Good for them, but that rifle certification is a slap in the face to veteran officers.

I understand that to a degree. I think this was something needed for quite a while now. Hopefully, this will allow veterans that want the cert (and will keep it) to get spots in classes, without as much competition.

 

[Tanfodude]

Which Trijicon would you recommend?

TA-45 for simalar performance with red dot.

 

[VUPDblue]

Good for them, but that rifle certification is a slap in the face to veteran officers.

if it is still an additional week of training, it should go to folks with seniority, ie: time on the street, not academy graduates.

 

[Tanfodude]

They like optics that work in all lighting conditions, and don't get washed out by bright light.

Then why was it commonly used in combat if it didn't perform? I'd rather not have to deal with battery issues. Plus, the marker lights up at night/low light. Sight acquisition is really good on those ACOGs. Hell, I barely shoot my rifle and whenever I use it, I'm competitive.

 

[devildog70]

if it is still an additional week of training, it should go to folks with seniority, ie: time on the street, not academy graduates.

The recruits are't part of the manning table for the districts, don't count against vacation bids, etc.

Like I said, I understand the argument. I just think you aren't going to realistically get as many rifles on the street any other way. I was in the 2nd IPD Rifle School. Of those people, a literal handful are still even on the street and didn't voluntarily give their rifles up.

Without having relative rookies taking up spots to the few schools we have, it gives veterans a better shot at spots that do come up.

 

[devildog70]

Then why was it commonly used in combat if it didn't perform? I'd rather not have to deal with battery issues. Plus, the marker lights up at night/low light. Sight acquisition is really good on those ACOGs. Hell, I barely shoot my rifle and whenever I use it, I'm competitive.

Nobody said it didn't perform.

Combat operations OCONUS are different than LE CONUS.

A. No magnification. 1.5x is magnified
B. Military quals tend to run between 100-500 yds.
LE quals tend to run between 3-100 yds
Eye box is a huge factor at close ranges.
C. LE is not running NVGs and lasers for lowlight.
They universally run white lights, and universally encounter white walls (not a big thing in mud huts). Washing out dots is extremely easy to do with bright lights against light backgrounds.

What works for one does not translate to the other, in all cases.

Battery life is a non-issue with an Aimpoint. It is measured in years.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Sight acquisition is really good on those ACOGs.

No magnification is allowed.

 

[VUPDblue]

The recruits are't part of the manning table for the districts, don't count against vacation bids, etc.

Like I said, I understand the argument. I just think you aren't going to realistically get as many rifles on the street any other way. I was in the 2nd IPD Rifle School. Of those people, a literal handful are still even on the street and didn't voluntarily give their rifles up.

Without having relative rookies taking up spots to the few schools we have, it gives veterans a better shot at spots that do come up.

I’m more thinking about the quality of the rifles, not the quantity. I’m all for more, but just think the more should come from vets, not recruits.

 

[Tanfodude]

Well that sucks. There should be an allowance as x1.5 isn't much difference and doesn't make the firearm deadlier. Who made up these rules? Criminals aren't going to care what LEO's optics are.

 

[Denny347]

If she’s in the academy now then I would look at getting her a Glock 26 or Glock 43 as a backup/off duty instead. She can qualify with it and carry it as soon as she hits the street but an AR-15 it will probably be 2021-2022 before she can qualify/carry it. If she’s in the class going now she won’t finish until June & then she has 5 months of field training & then a year of probation. They usually only do a couple of rifle classes a year due to time restraints & she has to apply along with everyone else that wants to carry one. The good news is they are doing small refresher classes for military & LEO who have already been rifle trained rather than making them go through the full 40hr class so she will have a better chance of getting in.

Im not saying don’t buy her a rifle, but it’ll be a good long time before she has a chance to get to go to rifle school. We have folks with 5 years on who don’t have seniority to get to the school right now. Last year we only trained about 40 new rifle officers.

Word is the recruits are going to qualify in the academy. Or is that just a rumor?

I thought all the recruits who wanted to were going to be able to qualify while in the Academy this go round. Is that just familiarization, then?

I’m going to guess that it’s just familiarization. Rifle school is a solid week so I don’t think they have time to do that with recruits.

Current recruits will come out of the academy certified on both rifle and shotgun.

if it is still an additional week of training, it should go to folks with seniority, ie: time on the street, not academy graduates.

Last that was told to me, the 3rd week will be the rifle school. They can use their own or a dept M16 just for the training. They will qualify and be qualified to carry a patrol rifle but won't be able to until off probation.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

The recruits are't part of the manning table for the districts, don't count against vacation bids, etc.

Like I said, I understand the argument. I just think you aren't going to realistically get as many rifles on the street any other way. I was in the 2nd IPD Rifle School. Of those people, a literal handful are still even on the street and didn't voluntarily give their rifles up.

Without having relative rookies taking up spots to the few schools we have, it gives veterans a better shot at spots that do come up.

That's all well and good, but it isn't going to do anything for morale.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Last that was told to me, the 3rd week will be the rifle school. They can use their own or a dept M16 just for the training. They will qualify and be qualified to carry a patrol rifle but won't be able to until off probation.

So giving a recruit a rifle isn't going to do squat for the number of rifles on the street because they can't carry them for the year they are on probation. But it is the smarter option.....

 

[devildog70]

That's all well and good, but it isn't going to do anything for morale.

When has morale ever been a serious consideration of the decision-makers?

Class of 50-70 2x a year...of bodies they already "own" and don't count against warm bodies on the streets, vs 1-2 classes of 20ish a year...of guys who may or may not be the ones who "need" it?

Between in-service and recruit classes, there aren't enough free weeks to do more rifle schools a year. And we haven't even discussed the range closing to fix the new berm...

Rookies always come out with the new hotness. Not necessarily fair, but it's the easy fix.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

When has morale ever been a serious consideration of the decision-makers?

Class of 50-70 2x a year...of bodies they already "own" and don't count against warm bodies on the streets, vs 1-2 classes of 20ish a year...of guys who may or may not be the ones who "need" it?

Between in-service and recruit classes, there aren't enough free weeks to do more rifle schools a year. And we haven't even discussed the range closing to fix the new berm...

Rookies always come out with the new hotness. Not necessarily fair, but it's the easy fix.

Did you see where Denny said they can't carry them during their probationary year?

 

[Kutnupe14]

I’m going to guess that it’s just familiarization. Rifle school is a solid week so I don’t think they have time to do that with recruits.

Have they ever thought about partnering up with local agencies? When I went through rifle school at CPD, we had 4 in my class. We easily could've have 5 or 6 more. If IMPD has the time, and a instructor willing to watch after your people, I pretty sure our PD would welcome the interaction.