Question: Why Would You Carry At Church??

[TopDog]

If the Pastor had been carrying in this situation....

I understand your feeling, but the church is a building, nothing more. It's the people that make it the "Church". God uses people and the tools they have on them. If you leave your tool at home, it can't be used..

I choose to protect my family and myself everywhere I go..

And thanks to many people that have given their lives to defend your right to believe what you want, you have the freedom to choose as you will. Just as I do.

 

[Leo]

When the Christian Church is working like it should, they end up helping a lot of people who have messy lives. Sometimes their mess follows them to church. In 2010, 3 different Pastors were shot in the Dallas area. In early 2011, the Pastor and assistant Pastor of the church just down the street were shot. The womans ex boyfriend got out of prison early and was upset that she did not want to take drugs, prostitute herself or sleep with him anymore. Restaining orders do not work around churches any more than they work at peoples homes. Many modern churches have emergency response plans, often mandated by the insurance companies. There are differences in opinion on how to handle violence, even in my denomination.

I believe that taking care of the flock is a command to Pastors. In my opinion, the protection of widows, orphans, the weak and the innocent needs to be addressed. Some Pastors choose to be very low key about the emergency response, and have trusted men in the congregation take a role of responsiblity for security.

By the way, a slim line bible and a Beretta 96 fit fine just together in a study bible cover. Just don't leave it laying around.

 

[OkieGirl]

I agree with Leo on this topic. In the church we attend we have observed men with that tale tale bulge in their jacket. I have a brother who is a LEO and is hired by his church to provide security. Most people don't see it if they don't want to, others notice but say nothing. It's the same issue, protect you family by being aware and alert. Those who are not in a right state of mind have no respect for a place of worship any more than they do a grocery store.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Offering plates can have a lot of cash in them. A church I used to attend got a diamond ring in the offering plate and it was stolen from the safe that night along with the entire offering for the week. I used to count for a small college church and we'd have over $100 with just 20 college kids most weeks.

 

[Hammerhead]

I went and visited a church last week, not here in IN. On their video screen before the service they had an announcement that due to vandalism and break-ins, that people should make sure to lock their vehicles and keep valuables out of sight. Kind of surprising, but not bad advice.

As the service started they eventually had announcements and such, where they had this nice video photo montage that showed all the activities they had for the children. This led into an announcement that they're starting a child check in procedure. You have to check in and out your children, even at the Sunday service.

Really? They have a problem with child abductions or disappearances? There was no explanation, just a "come talk to us about it later." I'm personally glad I do not attend that church, and I wouldn't/won't go back voluntarily.

I was glad I was armed. Even here at home, I don't attend church that often, but I'm always armed at those that I can legally carry.

 

[mrortega]

I went and visited a church last week, not here in IN. On their video screen before the service they had an announcement that due to vandalism and break-ins, that people should make sure to lock their vehicles and keep valuables out of sight. Kind of surprising, but not bad advice.

As the service started they eventually had announcements and such, where they had this nice video photo montage that showed all the activities they had for the children. This led into an announcement that they're starting a child check in procedure. You have to check in and out your children, even at the Sunday service.

Really? They have a problem with child abductions or disappearances? There was no explanation, just a "come talk to us about it later." I'm personally glad I do not attend that church, and I wouldn't/won't go back voluntarily.

I was glad I was armed. Even here at home, I don't attend church that often, but I'm always armed at those that I can legally carry.

I don't know why you'd have a problem with child check ins. We went to the Field Museum with our daughter and 3 grandchildren a few weeks ago. At the entrance to the water play area there was a young worker. I witnessed him put his arm out to stop a young child from leaving until the proper adult showed up and claimed him. That was a great idea. You don't want kids wandering out of the area and getting snatched by a pedophile. I went up and thanked him for the job he was doing.

 

[indytechnerd]

I went and visited a church last week, not here in IN. On their video screen before the service they had an announcement that due to vandalism and break-ins, that people should make sure to lock their vehicles and keep valuables out of sight. Kind of surprising, but not bad advice.

As the service started they eventually had announcements and such, where they had this nice video photo montage that showed all the activities they had for the children. This led into an announcement that they're starting a child check in procedure. You have to check in and out your children, even at the Sunday service.

Really? They have a problem with child abductions or disappearances? There was no explanation, just a "come talk to us about it later." I'm personally glad I do not attend that church, and I wouldn't/won't go back voluntarily.

I was glad I was armed. Even here at home, I don't attend church that often, but I'm always armed at those that I can legally carry.

The church I attend has a similar check-in policy. All children are checked in and have a name tag with a number (changes every week), and a 2nd tag that their parents keep. No kid comes in without a tag, no kid goes out without the parent presenting the corresponding tag. I am the check-in desk coordinator, as well as a member of the safety/security team, so this is something I'm quite familiar with.

You ask "Really? They have a problem with child abductions or disappearances? " The answer is simple...no, and this policy/process is the reason why. During any given service, of which there are 2 on Sunday and 1 Saturday evening, we have upwards of 200 children in 10-14 rooms. Even my own kid isn't released without showing my tag. This is both a security measure and an attendance tracker. I know exactly how many kids (and their names) are in any given room for a particular service.

Why does it bother you that we ensure the safety of your children by only allowing them to leave with the parent who brought them? There are many, many instances of single parent families whose other parent is not allowed contact. We ensure that doesn't happen, and that particular case has been tested this year.

An abusive spouse/father showed up and spent over an hour talking with our preschool coordinator, 3 of us were present and 2 LEOs were a shout away on the radios we were. The spouse was coming to "get his kids" at the beginning of service, even though they were not there. The mother and children had fled while the father was at work overnight. If we had no policy, an individual with prior domestic violence convictions would have been able to take his children out of the building without the mother's knowledge, or consent.

Non-custodial parent abductions are ridiculously common, IMHO, and I'd rather have a process of keeping track of them than risk something like that happening.

We'll put the psycho parent piece aside for a bit and I'll point out one other reason for having a tracking system. In the event of an emergency, say fire or tornado, knowing who is where is essential. Take this weekend for example, we are doing a full scale fire drill, with evacuation, and tornado drill, with shelter in place, for our entire children's ministry area. That'll be close to 300 kids for the 2nd service on Sunday, if recent attendance is an indicator. While it might be as big an issue in a small church, the premise is the same, you have to account for everyone.

 

[finn]

It sounds like my church must be the odd man out. About 1/3 of us carry on a regular basis. The church where the pastor was killed is a church that has a great community outreach program. It looks like this drew in some of the "messy" stuff that someone else posted about. In the end though I believe that he died doing what he was called to do. Please keep his wife and 2 yr old daughter in your prayers.

 

[fasteddie48]

why????

April 1 1984 a former sheriff walks out of church that attends every Sunday he is shot down in cold blood in front of his wife and 2 daughter man lays the gun across his chest with a Knife..... this man that was murdered was my Father

 

[cassaireland05]

I love this website!!! I would say the same thing why wouldn't you want to carry? Other people would think I am crazy and paranoid! I say no I know anything can happen and you never know when! I had some one tell me today that they wouldn't want to live that way. I told them I wouldn't want to live any other way! I am sorry that they are brain washed. Sorry anyways I am so thankful for this website! You people rock! Thanks for helping me come back to my insanity!!!

 

[Hammerhead]

This was not a large church. Perhaps they are warranted, or there are reasons for them. I have no problem with that. However, of all the churches I have attended around the country (happens when your dad's a pastor "auditioning" for new churches) this is the first time I have ever seen or heard of this.

The churches I attend on any regular basis are either so close knit that everyone knows everyone's business and the kids are raised in that "it takes a village" type, or are ones that my child doesn't go anywhere without us.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't have this program, nor should any church. I'm saying that the way it was presented, and for the size of the church, it really was a turn off.

 

[ATM]

In the U.S alone, we are currently averaging over 100 deadly force incidents per year at faith based organizations. This is a tenfold increase just in the last decade.

Many statistics compiled here: http://www.carlchinn.com/

Churches are not safe. If they are to be a sanctuary, someone must be prepared, willing and able to make a stand against evil and defend the innocents.

 

[Roadie]

In the U.S alone, we are currently averaging over 100 deadly force incidents per year at faith based organizations. This is a tenfold increase just in the last decade.

Many statistics compiled here: http://www.carlchinn.com/

Churches are not safe. If they are to be a sanctuary, someone must be prepared, willing and able to make a stand against evil and defend the innocents.

Amen!

(Am I allowed to say that on INGO? )

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Because I take my responsibilities seriously.

 

[goinggreyfast]

This was not a large church. Perhaps they are warranted, or there are reasons for them. I have no problem with that. However, of all the churches I have attended around the country (happens when your dad's a pastor "auditioning" for new churches) this is the first time I have ever seen or heard of this.

The churches I attend on any regular basis are either so close knit that everyone knows everyone's business and the kids are raised in that "it takes a village" type, or are ones that my child doesn't go anywhere without us.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't have this program, nor should any church. I'm saying that the way it was presented, and for the size of the church, it really was a turn off.

We attend a relatively small church (about 100) and we do not release our children from Kids Church until a parent or guardian comes for them as well. There was an instance where a child was caught wandering around the parking lot one day and we had to make sure it didn't happen again. An ounce of prevention...

 

[Expat]

In case the pastor starts up another sermon on gluttony... why won't he just leave it alone.

 

[thatguy]

This is somewhat off topic but it relates to church and firearms.

My understanding of the laws would be that I cannot carry at my church because it is also attached to a K-8 school. Is this correct?

 

[findingZzero]

Because NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition.

Exactly!!
Quote MP and I tremble like a school girl!!

 

[88GT]

What i carry everywhere. And avoid places like the post office. Mayne if there wasnt so many disgruntled postal workers no one would have ever gone postal. And ........

Nothing special about a meeting of church that would prevent me from carrying unless it had a school in it.. so i just avoid large churches. But its an oddity that i go to church and have never open carried... humm that is an idea....

Large isn't a good indicator of school status. My church has less than 400 regular attendees and they have a pre-school and kindergarten program. And you'd never be able to tell from simply being inside.

Can you carry in Church that also has a pre-school through the week?

This is somewhat off topic but it relates to church and firearms.

My understanding of the laws would be that I cannot carry at my church because it is also attached to a K-8 school. Is this correct?

Only with the pastor's permission, I think.

April 1 1984 a former sheriff walks out of church that attends every Sunday he is shot down in cold blood in front of his wife and 2 daughter man lays the gun across his chest with a Knife..... this man was my Father

I don't understand this at all. Was your father the victim or the shooter?

 

[mrortega]

This is somewhat off topic but it relates to church and firearms.

My understanding of the laws would be that I cannot carry at my church because it is also attached to a K-8 school. Is this correct?

This is a real muddy area of the law in Indiana. Is the church physically attached? Is it just on the same campus as the school? Would the church proper be considered not part of a school?

We need some case law to clean up the typical mess that the legislature made on this one. I don't normally make sophomoric comments about government in general but I think it's warranted this time. There needs to be some clear direction from somebody. I don't want to be the test case BUT rumor has it that somebody who wears my clothes conceals almost everywhere.