Republican Leadership Kills Constitutional Carry Again in 2018

[Cameramonkey]

Nobody hates you two. We hate your opinion and ideas about a constitutional right. We hope you research and understand that its a right for all, not just who somebody thinks should have the privilege. In your statements, change gun carrying to voting. Or sitting at a lunch counter. Thats how you sound to us. "Some animals are more equal than others."

Might I strongly suggest this reading material. Its eye opening. It is unrelated to guns specifically, but should help open your eyes to freedoms and natural laws in general.
https://www.amazon.com/5000-Year-Leap-Cleon-Skousen/dp/0880801484

It blows my mind the rampant ignorance of Americans of not just 2nd amendment issues but the whole process of our Republic as a whole. Yet these people are always the first ones out waving a sign about something usually about an issue the socialist left is blowing out of proportion. Then when interviewed or asked why they are protesting or their possition on an issue they don't even know what they are talking about.
A lot of Americans are dumb blind sheep. And most of them are coming out of collage

FIFY (at least what many of them write it; I cringe every time I see it done)

 

[bwframe]

We need a state lobby organization that resembles what the NRA does on a federal level.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I sit here unsurprised.

If you go to your search engine right now and search for "Indiana gun rights group" or whatever similar collection of words you like you'll come up with really nothing of the sort.

There's the ISPRA, which seems to be much more along the line of education and some legislative updates but not geared what-so ever towards changing the laws or a marshaling yard for action.

Then you find INGO. Again, from the view here in my armchair INGO isn't set up to be a serious force for legislative changes. It's not a political organization. We come here to read and discuss, and have a but of fun sharpening our internet sarcasm, and have "Coke vs Pepsi" debates. All of that is just fine. I'm not calling for INGO to change or do anything.

Then you come across National organizations. The NRA, GOA, SAF, JPFO. All of which barely cooperate and rarely agree as to what needs to be done and focus on National issues. Most of them pick their state level fights very carefully. I have rather unpopular opinions of them all in my circles, but that's a whole different thread.

My point here is that there is no real Indiana based gun rights organization we can throw support behind. There is no central rallying point. No one trustworthy Paul Revere that signals the call to arms, so to speak. Anyone interested in furthering our rights in Indiana is stuck with doing their own research and acting independently.

What I am suggesting, but not volunteering for, is an organization such as that. An Indiana centralized watchdog and change organization that can show numbers and bring pressure on politicians. This is not an easy thing.

I'll tell you why I am not volunteering for this. I was deeply involved in Ohio trying to get concealed carry passed. The movement gathered momentum in the late 90's and we fought like Hell to get a lousy bill full of poison pills passed by 2004. No one walked away from that happy and every year since then there is another push to fix some idiotic facet of that odious original bill.

What is required is a central and tight knit core of directors willing to devote their lives to making small and frustratingly small changes in a more and more clearly corrupt system. You'll need grassroots volunteers dedicated to spending their time and treasure to manning tables, printing flyers, researching issues, and having endless political arguments with people at gun shows about how to proceed and what is right. You'll need meetings. You'll need a website. You'll need rules regulating said website that are probably going to tick off a third of the people that visit it. You'll need tech support. You'll need a cadre of attorneys, some of whom will be willing to do Pro Bono work. Some will not.

THEEENNNNN, you're going to need money to run it all. So, here comes the need to sell memberships and have volunteers to be in charge of the money and keeping track of everyone that is current on their dues. You'll need a lot of stamps too.

My friends, it's a huge pain. It's also the only thing that might get something done. We don't have enough natural born believers in a pure expression and understanding of the Second Amendment in Indiana to count on Constitutional carry coming about naturally by virtue of electing Hoosiers based on party line alone.

I care about Constitutional carry happening. I think Indiana enacting CC will be one more domino falling in a sea change of general acceptance of our natural rights as Americans and Hoosiers (transplants included) to go about our business armed for our own safety without malice for our fellow man. May we all live to see it be a right extended to the entire country.

When I moved here I found Indiana to be a quite gun friendly and easy to navigate environment. Anyone reading this from Ohio, Illinois, or even worse New York or New Jersey understands my meaning. There's a really short list of things that need changed to make this state a veritable utopia for gun owners. That also means there's going to be a lot less for a rights organization to complain about and justify it's existence. There may not be much for it to feed on.

One last thought to anyone feeling froggy and thinking, "YEAH! That's me! I will start this organization". Read through these pages carefully and without bias. You will discover that organizing the general population of gun owners is more difficult than herding cats. You will have to be able to get the tin hat crowd to walk beside the near sellout RINO types just to get enough numbers to have any effect.

I'm too old, and way too burned out on activism.

Chris

You sir, said it a lot better than me.

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We cannot go back to letting the liberals be in control or giving the liberaltarians a shot at screwing things up. We have no choice but to influence the "R's" that we have R's of our own to put in their place.

Need I remind you?

 

[ATM]

...We have no choice but to influence the "R's" that we have R's of our own to put in their place...

You said arse.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

We're spoiled rotten here in IN, vs IL, where they have such groups because they need them just to pry loose anything they can get, or CA where they need them to try to slow the hemorrhage. Bosma needs to be neutered for many reasons; Constitutional carry is just one.

 

[Birds Away]

Fascinating read.

 

[IndyDave1776]

You sir, said it a lot better than me.

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We cannot go back to letting the liberals be in control or giving the liberaltarians a shot at screwing things up. We have no choice but to influence the "R's" that we have R's of our own to put in their place.

Need I remind you?
View attachment 63365

I am still inclined to think that a few years of this along with a lot of Pepto-Bismol may be the most effective tool to remind our Republicans that they are supposed to be whole Republicans and not just shills for the Chamber of Commerce.

 

[Birds Away]

I am still inclined to think that a few years of this along with a lot of Pepto-Bismol may be the most effective tool to remind our Republicans that they are supposed to be whole Republicans and not just shills for the Chamber of Commerce.

They have nothing to fear and everything (monetarily) to gain.

 

[IndyDave1776]

They have nothing to fear and everything (monetarily) to gain.

This is exactly why I am thinking that a couple of years with the other side in charge may adjust their attitude, preferably a narrow enough minority that the Ds can't run roughshod over a veto but still a majority that would put Bosma in the peanut gallery rather than playing dictator.

 

[Birds Away]

This is exactly why I am thinking that a couple of years with the other side in charge may adjust their attitude, preferably a narrow enough minority that the Ds can't run roughshod over a veto but still a majority that would put Bosma in the peanut gallery rather than playing dictator.

You know that is wishful thinking.

 

[IndyDave1776]

You know that is wishful thinking.

One one hand it doesn't seem very likely, but then again, at one time it was considered an article of faith with anyone who was politically savvy that Hillary was going to be our next president. If you **** people off bad enough, most anything can happen.

 

[Cameramonkey]

scrolling through its starting to look like a naval battle.

 

[Birds Away]

One one hand it doesn't seem very likely, but then again, at one time it was considered an article of faith with anyone who was politically savvy that Hillary was going to be our next president. If you **** people off bad enough, most anything can happen.

That's very true. I would only be concerned about ever going back once that happens.

 

[Birds Away]

scrolling through its starting to look like a naval battle.

We fight on the same side.

 

[IndyDave1776]

scrolling through its starting to look like a naval battle.

We fight on the same side.

 

[Woobie]

You sir, said it a lot better than me.

------------------------------

We cannot go back to letting the liberals be in control or giving the liberaltarians a shot at screwing things up. We have no choice but to influence the "R's" that we have R's of our own to put in their place.

Need I remind you?
View attachment 63365

I'm excited to hear about how Libertarians would screw up our 2A rights.

 

[Woobie]

I've been thinking about our current legislature in a bigger context. They're playing a prevent defense with a 21 point lead. Why blitz and get burned? These guys (for the most part) don't believe in anything except staying in office and keeping their party in power. Everything they have done (or not done) this year has been engineered to be as safe as possible. They aren't really forwarding any agendas at all right now, just pass carefully crafted legislation that will keep all but the most committed of a given group happy. Nothing newsworthy for an opponent to hang on them come November.

Politics is a negotiation. The voters have the power to install legislators, and the politicians have the power to enact legislation. Unfortunately, we got so upset with Bauer that we voted enough Republicans in to make sure he would never be Speaker again. In the process we essentially made it impossible to unseat Bosma. Now we have no negotiating power. Why should he do anything? Bosma and Bauer have shown us how dangerous that flaw in our state constitution is.

 

[bwframe]

I'm excited to hear about how Libertarians would screw up our 2A rights.

Not only 2A, lots of other areas too. How has Joe Donnelly's voting been over the last 5 years? No libertarian in that election would have meant no Donnelly.

How much has Indiana's senatorial representation had any effect on federal laws over the last five years. Effectively, none. Because "feelings."

Libertarians screw up our 2A rights because they take votes away from those who oppose the antis.

 

[CraigAPS]

I'm excited to hear about how Libertarians would screw up our 2A rights.

Me too!

Not only 2A, lots of other areas too. How has Joe Donnelly's voting been over the last 5 years? No libertarian in that election would have meant no Donnelly.

How much has Indiana's senatorial representation had any effect on federal laws over the last five years. Effectively, none. Because "feelings."

Libertarians screw up our 2A rights because they take votes away from those who oppose the antis.

So, Libertarians screw up our Rights because people vote for them instead of voting for another candidate? You're operating under the assumption that had there not been a Libertarian candidate, all those who voted for him would've automatically voted for the Republican. There's no way to know that. Some of them quite possibly would've voted FOR Donnelly. This is one (of the many) things wrong in politics. So many people can only see two halves of a whole, when we need to be able to see many different parts; Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians, and as many others as can be thought up.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Me too!



So, Libertarians screw up our Rights because people vote for them instead of voting for another candidate? You're operating under the assumption that had there not been a Libertarian candidate, all those who voted for him would've automatically voted for the Republican. There's no way to know that. Some of them quite possibly would've voted FOR Donnelly. This is one (of the many) things wrong in politics. So many people can only see two halves of a whole, when we need to be able to see many different parts; Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians, and as many others as can be thought up.

Yeah, thats a fallacy. I know a few Libertarians who are too socially liberal to get behind a conservative. They cant be the only ones.

 

[ArevaloSocom]

Can’t keep rewarding RINOs