Russia vs Ukraine anyone watching this ignite?

[guardman7]

My opinion, isn’t held by many…. I think Putin had some dirt on the Bidens and probably other “leaders” and that’s why he can basically do what he wants. He may have even set it up that way. Ukraine has a lot of corruption and I imagine Putin has exploited that.

As far as what should be done? I think Russia is proving their military isn’t as formidable as we thought. I say let them wear themselves down for a bit in Ukraine, then exploit this opportunity to surround Moscow in an aerial “D-Day” put Putin on the run and turn the Russian people into our ally, then we could finally put the squeeze on China to play by the same WTO that the rest of the world follows.

I know everyone is afraid of nuclear war, but so are the Russians. Putin doesn’t trust his own people, you think they’re going to start a nuclear war on his behalf?

 

[Tombs]

Mine the highway, but I guess nobody thought of that. Blow it up and make them drive in the mud. Or, maybe they did and that's one reason progress is so slow.

It's better to wreck the armor and as many of the troops as possible outside the city so their capitol and its people don't turn into Aleppo. I have to think if Ukraine had ANY capability to hit it on the road, all lined up and vulnerable, they'd be doing it.

Which leads me to believe they are vastly overstating their actual remaining capabilities and have taken extreme losses to air and arty and can't even get close enough to pick them off with Javelins.

You can mine a highway with artillery quite readily.

I'm kind of shocked that the Ukrainians haven't done that. RAAMS I believe it's called.

 

[smokingman]

Looks like we are joining the Frey.

Russian military to hold fire, open corridors in several Ukraine cities; Oil prices jump amid conflict: Sunday recap

Gas is reaching its highest price amid Russia invasion of Ukraine. The Biden administration requested $10 billion in Ukraine support. Latest updates.

eu.usatoday.com

Aside from air craft from NATO moving into the skies of Ukraine it also looks like Biden is trying to get everyone to ban oil from Russia.

Guess my original thread was correct.

NATO countries supporting Ukraine against the Russian invasion have a “green light” to send fighter jets as part of their military aid, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Sunday.

Blinken also said the U.S. and its allies are in talks to ban Russian oil imports, a move that would require successful efforts to provide an "appropriate supply of oil on world markets." Russia supplies about 30% of Europe's oil and 40% of its natural gas.

Oil will hit new records daily for awhile,and I think Biden just scrapped the Iran nuclear deal.

 

[Redhorse]

My opinion, isn’t held by many…. I think Putin had some dirt on the Bidens and probably other “leaders” and that’s why he can basically do what he wants. He may have even set it up that way. Ukraine has a lot of corruption and I imagine Putin has exploited that.

As far as what should be done? I think Russia is proving their military isn’t as formidable as we thought. I say let them wear themselves down for a bit in Ukraine, then exploit this opportunity to surround Moscow in an aerial “D-Day” put Putin on the run and turn the Russian people into our ally, then we could finally put the squeeze on China to play by the same WTO that the rest of the world follows.

I know everyone is afraid of nuclear war, but so are the Russians. Putin doesn’t trust his own people, you think they’re going to start a nuclear war on his behalf?

I still can't believe people actually think Putin would tank the whole Russian economy and commit tens of thousands of troops over some baseless conspiracy theory.

 

[Tombs]

I still can't believe people actually think Putin would tank the whole Russian economy and commit tens of thousands of troops over some baseless conspiracy theory.

And yet amazingly there's a significantly large group of people who also believe another insane conspiracy theory. That Putin invaded Ukraine unprovoked and that he has absolutely no valid reason for this, and is crashing their economy for no reason what so ever.

 

[guardman7]

I still can't believe people actually think Putin would tank the whole Russian economy and commit tens of thousands of troops over some baseless conspiracy theory.

It’s not a conspiracy theory. The “breadbasket” was the lifeblood of the Soviet Union….. Russia would be doing very well to secure more land in that region of the world as far as securing more resources than snow and oil.

 

[Ark]

I still can't believe people actually think Putin would tank the whole Russian economy and commit tens of thousands of troops over some baseless conspiracy theory.

The most worrying part of this entire situation is that I still don't think we have all the pieces to understand why this happened and why Putin thinks this is worth it.

What does he think is coming in the future that justifies grabbing Ukraine now and all the consequences that entails?

 

[smokingman]

It’s not a conspiracy theory. The “breadbasket” was the lifeblood of the Soviet Union….. Russia would be doing very well to secure more land in that region of the world as far as securing more resources than snow and oil.

Topic: Agriculture in Russia

Find the most up-to-date statistics and facts about agriculture in Russia

www.statista.com

48 million hectares of sown area were cultivated under cereals and legumes in Russia in 2020
118,610,583 acres. It is the largest country on earth after all.

Ukraine total is 38 million hectares for crops.

USA 896 million acres(this does include Cattle,and Texas alone accounts for quite a bit,so not all tilled. I am unsure whey the difference in countries at the site I am looking at.Also in a note says includes Maple syrup forest.)
351 million hectares in 2020(declined every year since 1996.

U.S. farming: total land in farms 2023 | Statista

From 2000 onwards, the total area of land in U.S.

www.statista.com

 

[Cameramonkey]

Looks like we are joining the Frey.

Russian military to hold fire, open corridors in several Ukraine cities; Oil prices jump amid conflict: Sunday recap

Gas is reaching its highest price amid Russia invasion of Ukraine. The Biden administration requested $10 billion in Ukraine support. Latest updates.

eu.usatoday.com

Aside from air craft from NATO moving into the skies of Ukraine it also looks like Biden is trying to get everyone to ban oil from Russia.

Guess my original thread was correct.

NATO countries supporting Ukraine against the Russian invasion have a “green light” to send fighter jets as part of their military aid, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Sunday.

Blinken also said the U.S. and its allies are in talks to ban Russian oil imports, a move that would require successful efforts to provide an "appropriate supply of oil on world markets." Russia supplies about 30% of Europe's oil and 40% of its natural gas.

Oil will hit new records daily for awhile,and I think Biden just scrapped the Iran nuclear deal.

And what I said is worth repeating. Banning Russian oil is a good idea. BUT ONLY IF WE ROLL BACK BIDEN'S EOs AND BECOME ENERGY INDEPENDENT AGAIN.

I dont mind paying a little more for oil because we lost a little cheap supply. But NEVER without turning on our spigots again. That'd be like telling your kids "no, we arent going out to eat tonight. Oh, and no, I wont go out into the garden and pick food to eat instead. You'll just have to deal with not having any food because Im not taking you to McDs, and I dont think we should eat food from our own garden because I dont want to. Deal with it. "

 

[KG1]

It’s not a conspiracy theory. The “breadbasket” was the lifeblood of the Soviet Union….. Russia would be doing very well to secure more land in that region of the world as far as securing more resources than snow and oil.

The thing is that Russia has no right to that land. They signed an agreement assuring the recognition of Ukrainian sovereignty over that land.

 

[Route 45]

And yet amazingly there's a significantly large group of people who also believe another insane conspiracy theory. That Putin invaded Ukraine unprovoked and that he has absolutely no valid reason for this, and is crashing their economy for no reason what so ever.

Pretty sure Putin miscalculated on two fronts. First, his military apparently isn't all that it's cracked up to be. Second, he miscalculated the international response. It seems that invading a sovereign nation and threatening the world with nuclear weapons is worse for the invading nation's economy than originally anticipated.

 

[guardman7]

Topic: Agriculture in Russia

Find the most up-to-date statistics and facts about agriculture in Russia

www.statista.com

48 million hectares of sown area were cultivated under cereals and legumes in Russia in 2020
118,610,583 acres. It is the largest country on earth after all.

Ukraine total is 38 million hectares for crops.

Per GDP that’s a huge difference. YUUUGE. Remember you have to feed the people you rule, otherwise they die and you can’t rule them anymore…

 

[Tombs]

The most worrying part of this entire situation is that I still don't think we have all the pieces to understand why this happened and why Putin thinks this is worth it.

What is he think is coming in the future that justifies grabbing Ukraine now and all the consequences that entails?

1.) Almost all of Russia's oil flows through Ukraine on its way to Europe and Ukraine takes a significant cut
2.) Ukraine put in a dam to block fresh water into Crimea, causing billions to be spent on bridges and infrastructure for water
3.) After euromaidan, Ukraine's military/paramilitary groups have been attacking majority Russian districts, and have been for 8 years now
4.) Renewed interest in Ukraine wishing to join NATO, which would put Russia in a very awkward position
5.) Remembering point 1.) consider what might happen if Ukraine were to join NATO?

In western media, we get one side of the story. There's many more reasons than what I just listed.
But all in all this is an exceptionally complicated geopolitical situation that involves almost everyone, in some capacity.

 

[wagyu52]

Topic: Agriculture in Russia

Find the most up-to-date statistics and facts about agriculture in Russia

www.statista.com

48 million hectares of sown area were cultivated under cereals and legumes in Russia in 2020
118,610,583 acres. It is the largest country on earth after all.

Ukraine total is 38 million hectares for crops.

USA 896 million acres(this does include Cattle,and Texas alone accounts for quite a bit,so not all tilled. I am unsure whey the difference in countries at the site I am looking at.)
351 million hectares in 2020(declined every year since 1996.

U.S. farming: total land in farms 2023 | Statista

From 2000 onwards, the total area of land in U.S.

www.statista.com

Quantity and quality are two different things

 

[actaeon277]

Ukraine conflict: Ukraine's electronic warfare systems in focus

The Ukrainian armed forces have acquired and fielded a range of electronic warfare (EW) systems in recent years, with a mix of new equipment and improved legacy systems.

www.janes.com

 

[Redhorse]

1.) Almost all of Russia's oil flows through Ukraine on its way to Europe and Ukraine takes a significant cut
2.) Ukraine put in a dam to block fresh water into Crimea, causing billions to be spent on bridges and infrastructure for water
3.) After euromaidan, Ukraine's military/paramilitary groups have been attacking majority Russian districts, and have been for 8 years now
4.) Renewed interest in Ukraine wishing to join NATO, which would put Russia in a very awkward position
5.) Remembering point 1.) consider what might happen if Ukraine were to join NATO?

In western media, we get one side of the story. There's many more reasons than what I just listed.
But all in all this is an exceptionally complicated geopolitical situation that involves almost everyone, in some capacity.

1. Russia could have played nice and let Nord Stream 2 get completed and built pipelines around Ukraine (such as through Belarus)
2. Crimea was never Russia's to take in the first place
3. No response for that but I have some doubts about it considering the heavy backing of Russian separatists by Russia.
4. Ukraine has every right to join NATO, just like Russia does if they were interested
5. Ukraine wouldn't have to worry about being invaded for no sound reason if they were part of NATO (hence the Baltic States joined NATO and the rumors that Finland is now considering it).

I see what you'er saying but Russia is the aggressor here and 100% at fault for what's happening to in response for their savage assault on Ukraine. I get playing devil's advocate but Russia has no grounds or justification for this war other than they want all of Ukraine and are tired of no longer be relevant on the world stage like the USSR once was. Their "side of the story" is complete garbage and nothing more than disinformation, lies, exaggerations, and delusions. For crying outlaid they continue to claim they're fighting "neo-Nazies" when. Ukraine's president is Jewish and they're indiscriminately bombing civilian infrastructure, including Jewish settlements.

I'm not sure where you get your information but Russia deserves zero sympathy and nothing justifies their assault on a country that posed zero threat to them.

 

[smokingman]

Per GDP that’s a huge difference. YUUUGE. Remember you have to feed the people you rule, otherwise they die and you can’t rule them anymore…

Russian producers shipped 79 million tons of grain, meat, fish, vegetables, dairy in 2020,and set new records in 2021. I can not post the source to a site in the USA though(Moscow news and their department of agriculture). It does say 86% of which went to China. The rest going to various countries in the middle east and a few in Europe.

Putin has pushed for Russia to produce enough on its own to export 50% of what they grow. It has been a high priority in Russia for more than 10 years now. It was not until 2020 though that they broke all soviet records for grain produced.

They are also #2 in potash production only Canada is higher. They are also third in Nitrogen production(thanks to nearly unlimited natural gas).They are 3rd in nitrogen production(were 4th but they increased and the USA lowered the amount produced and dropped to 4th in 2021).

 

[Tombs]

1. Russia could have played nice and let Nord Stream 2 get completed and built pipelines around Ukraine (such as through Belarus)
2. Crimea was never Russia's to take in the first place
3. No response for that but I have some doubts about it considering the heavy backing of Russian separatists by Russia.
4. Ukraine has every right to join NATO, just like Russia does if they were interested
5. Ukraine wouldn't have to worry about being invaded for no sound reason if they were part of NATO (hence the Baltic States joined NATO and the rumors that Finland is now considering it).

I see what you'er saying but Russia is the aggressor here and 100% at fault for what's happening to in response for their savage assault on Ukraine. I get playing devil's advocate but Russia has no grounds or justification for this war other than they want all of Ukraine and are tired of no longer be relevant on the world stage like the USSR once was. Their "side of the story" is complete garbage and nothing more than disinformation, lies, exaggerations, and delusions. For crying outlaid they continue to claim they're fighting "neo-Nazies" when. Ukraine's president is Jewish and they're indiscriminately bombing civilian infrastructure, including Jewish settlements.

I'm not sure where you get your information but Russia deserves zero sympathy and nothing justifies their assault on a country that posed zero threat to them.

Considering I watched Ukrainian Neo-Nazis nail a man to a cross and set him on fire, alive, I dispute the claim that there aren't neo-nazis involved. Yes, it's a thinly veiled excuse, but it's still an excuse with some truth behind it. I imagine they get pretty annoyed by watching ISIS style tactics being used on their people.

The world has been astroturfing in Ukraine for quite awhile. I see Russia's side of the argument.

That doesn't mean I support Russia's invasion.

On the other side we have Zelensky who has had journalists murdered, shut down critical TV stations, and imprisoned his political rivals. I fail to see how he's much different than Putin at the end of the day.

There isn't a sane side to throw support behind.

 

[smokingman]

There isn't a sane side to throw support behind.

Yes,yes there is. Our own. Just stay out of it and Europe period.

 

[smokingman]

Considering I watched Ukrainian Neo-Nazis nail a man to a cross and set him on fire, alive, I dispute the claim that there aren't neo-nazis involved. Yes, it's a thinly veiled excuse, but it's still an excuse with some truth behind it. I imagine they get pretty annoyed by watching ISIS style tactics being used on their people.

The world has been astroturfing in Ukraine for quite awhile. I see Russia's side of the argument.

That doesn't mean I support Russia's invasion.

On the other side we have Zelensky who has had journalists murdered, shut down critical TV stations, and imprisoned his political rivals. I fail to see how he's much different than Putin at the end of the day.

There isn't a sane side to throw support behind.

The nailing one guy to a cross was bad. The 8 years of reports to UN human rights watch and the OSCE though,those are way more damning and without any doubt prove that 10k plus have died in the separatist areas. Not to mention the rapes,kidnappings,murders,looting,shelling ect...and even in the official original report to the UN it flat called the perpetrators Nazi's(Some of those observers were from the USA).