Sen. John McCain Has Passed Away. RIP Sir, And Thank You.

[Trigger Time]

Yeah even in a recent documentary I watched on richard Nixon with the released WH tapes it was known at the time that it was old and improperly maintained ordinance that caused that tragedy

 

[amboy49]

Well, for once, Wiki has a good article on this. You can verify it other places.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire

Issues with Zuni rockets[edit]

In addition to bombs, the ground attack aircraft carried unguided 5.0 in (127.0 mm) Mk-32 "Zuni" rockets. These rockets were in wide use although they had a reputation for electrical difficulties and accidental firing.[SUP][6][/SUP] It was common for aircraft to launch with six or more rocket packs, each containing four rockets.[SUP][6][/SUP]


Unstable ordnance received[edit]
On 28 July, the day before the accident, Forrestal was resupplied with ordnance from the ammunition shipUSS Diamond Head. The load included sixteen 1000-lb AN/M65A1 "fat boy" bombs (so nicknamed because of their short, rotund shape), which Diamond Head had picked up from the Naval Base Subic Bay and were intended for the next day's second bombing sortie. Some of the batch of AN-M65A1s Forrestal received were more than a decade old, having spent a portion of that exposed to the heat and humidity of Okinawa or Guam,[SUP][9][/SUP] eventually being improperly stored in open-air Quonset huts at a disused ammunition dump on the periphery of Subic Bay Naval Base. Unlike the thick-cased Mark 83 bombs filled with Composition H6, the AN/M65A1 bombs were thin-skinned and filled with Composition B, an older explosive with greater shock and heat sensitivity.

Composition B also had the dangerous tendency to become more powerful (up to 50% by weight) and more sensitive if it was old or improperly stored. Forrestal's ordnance handlers had never even seen an AN/M65A1 before, and to their shock, the bombs delivered from Diamond Head were in terrible condition; coated with "decades of accumulated rust and grime" and still in their original packing crates (now moldy and rotten); some were stamped with production dates as early as 1953. Most dangerous of all, several bombs were seen to be leaking liquid paraffin phlegmatizing agent from their seams, an unmistakable sign that the bomb's explosive filler had degenerated with excessive age, and exposure to heat and moisture

I did see this article as well. I’m sure there are many theories that have been espoused. I will concede the article I read about the wet start was not confirmed by the Navy. Regardless, there was enough blame to go around for that terrible tragedy - especially by the higher ups who authorized use of the older ordinance. The net result was just another tragic example of that damn political war. I just attended a funeral of one of my friends who died of Parkinson’s Disease. He believed exposure to agent orange during his tour in Nam was the cause. I believed him when he told me.

 

[actaeon277]

I did see this article as well. I’m sure there are many theories that have been espoused. I will concede the article I read about the wet start was not confirmed by the Navy. Regardless, there was enough blame to go around for that terrible tragedy - especially by the higher ups who authorized use of the older ordinance. The net result was just another tragic example of that damn political war. I just attended a funeral of one of my friends who died of Parkinson’s Disease. He believed exposure to agent orange during his tour in Nam was the cause. I believed him when he told me.

It's a lot more than a theory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drXW4QZVHNI
[video=youtube;drXW4QZVHNI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drXW4QZVHNI[/video]







During the same time period, the Enterprise had a Zuni rocket prematurely fire, from a Phantom. So was McCain also on the Enterprise?
Enterprise Remembers 1969 Fire
The explosion erupted when a Mk-32 Zuni rocket attached to a parked F-4 Phantom was overheated by an aircraft start unit mounted to a tow tractor. The initial explosion spread to other armed aircraft causing fires and additional explosions across the flight deck.
This was caused by the starting unit's exhaust being directed on the missile pack.


And, the Oriskany had a major fire, during the same time frame, caused by a flare.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Oriskany_fire
At approximately 0728 hours, as Oriskany was preparing to begin flight operations and stowing ordnance from night operations, an alarm was sounded for a fire in compartment A-107-M, a flare locker, containing over 250 MK-24 magnesium flares and 2.75 inch rocket warheads, located just off the forward hangar deck, adjacent to the Starboard sponson. A flare had inadvertently ignited, and the sailor handling the flare threw it into the locker and dogged the door shut

 

[JeepHammer]

I edited the content in this post. It is an effort to save the new member from an emotional response.
Name calling is verboten as we all know. It will not be tolerated in the manner used in this post.

The late senator did many things in the later part of his career that were controversial to many many of us myself included. He could be the poster child for term limits.
In that lets remain civil please.

-CM-

 

[actaeon277]

Name calling can get you banned.
Are you sure that's what you want to say?

 

[Tryin']

Thanks for posting all of this information, acteon277. Particularly the video, what an effort those hours and days must have been.

 

[actaeon277]

Thanks for posting all of this information, acteon277. Particularly the video, what an effort those hours and days must have been.

Damage Control was VERY important in the Navy.
So I heard a lot of stuff about these incidents.
And the fire teams that charge towards the fire and the bombs, well, heroes. Just as much as anyone charging a machine gun.

 

[churchmouse]

I did see this article as well. I’m sure there are many theories that have been espoused. I will concede the article I read about the wet start was not confirmed by the Navy. Regardless, there was enough blame to go around for that terrible tragedy - especially by the higher ups who authorized use of the older ordinance. The net result was just another tragic example of that damn political war. I just attended a funeral of one of my friends who died of Parkinson’s Disease. He believed exposure to agent orange during his tour in Nam was the cause. I believed him when he told me.

The early loss of my uncles was due to the same thing. Agent Orange. It was a known factor in the illness they both had.

 

[churchmouse]

IT WASN'T A WET START.

WTF?
Why does this lie keep spreading?


1) His plane was in the flight path of the missile. So, did the missile do a frickin U turn?
The missile came from the OTHER side of the carrier.

2) The missile ignition was because of switching from generator to internal plane power. It caused a voltage spike. This STILL HAPPENS TODAY.
This is why missiles are not armed till the plane is on the Cat. So if it goes off, it there is no BOOM.
The missile was launched by Lt Cmdr Bangert's plane. It was determined that the pin to prevent this, was missing. Either to speed up the launch process, or just plain fell out. The pins to get worn after hundreds of use.

It is just to easy for these things to take root and fester.

 

[churchmouse]

Well, for once, Wiki has a good article on this. You can verify it other places.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire

Issues with Zuni rockets[edit]

In addition to bombs, the ground attack aircraft carried unguided 5.0 in (127.0 mm) Mk-32 "Zuni" rockets. These rockets were in wide use although they had a reputation for electrical difficulties and accidental firing.[SUP][6][/SUP] It was common for aircraft to launch with six or more rocket packs, each containing four rockets.[SUP][6][/SUP]


Unstable ordnance received[edit]
On 28 July, the day before the accident, Forrestal was resupplied with ordnance from the ammunition shipUSS Diamond Head. The load included sixteen 1000-lb AN/M65A1 "fat boy" bombs (so nicknamed because of their short, rotund shape), which Diamond Head had picked up from the Naval Base Subic Bay and were intended for the next day's second bombing sortie. Some of the batch of AN-M65A1s Forrestal received were more than a decade old, having spent a portion of that exposed to the heat and humidity of Okinawa or Guam,[SUP][9][/SUP] eventually being improperly stored in open-air Quonset huts at a disused ammunition dump on the periphery of Subic Bay Naval Base. Unlike the thick-cased Mark 83 bombs filled with Composition H6, the AN/M65A1 bombs were thin-skinned and filled with Composition B, an older explosive with greater shock and heat sensitivity.

Composition B also had the dangerous tendency to become more powerful (up to 50% by weight) and more sensitive if it was old or improperly stored. Forrestal's ordnance handlers had never even seen an AN/M65A1 before, and to their shock, the bombs delivered from Diamond Head were in terrible condition; coated with "decades of accumulated rust and grime" and still in their original packing crates (now moldy and rotten); some were stamped with production dates as early as 1953. Most dangerous of all, several bombs were seen to be leaking liquid paraffin phlegmatizing agent from their seams, an unmistakable sign that the bomb's explosive filler had degenerated with excessive age, and exposure to heat and moisture

Thank you Act.

 

[JeepHammer]

Plane 110, a PHANTOM, launched the missile.

McCain was in a SKYHAWK, #416, on the other side. It was hit, along with the SKYHAWK #405, Lt. Cmdr. White.


So, McCain was on the OTHER SIDE of the carrier, and not even in the TYPE OF PLANE that launched the missile.
Yet, people keep spreading the lie around.

McCain did do a 'Hot Start' (not 'Wet Start', simply restarting a hot engine) about 10 minutes previous to the accidental missile launch.
In the first documentary about the Forrestal accident they show the entire footage showing the puff of smoke from the 'Hot Start'.

McCain DID NOT fire a missile, McCain was flying a BOMBER, didn't have missiles on board.

The missile came across the deck AT McCain.
McCains hot engine start was ORDERED, and happened about 10 minutes prior to the missile event.

Maintenance crews DID NOT have EOD 'Safe' the ordnance before working on the F4 that fired the missile.

McCains plane had a missile tear through a full fuel tank and drop bombs on the deck due to faulty clamps on the bombs (these bombs were intended to be dropped by WWII era bombers)
The plane was nearly torn in two, and McCain was trapped in the cockpit/fire.
The fire cooked off the bombs as fire crews battle the fire, fire crew members were killed when the bombs went off.

McCain was seriously burned while rescue crews tried to get him out of the cockpit.

To think otherwise with the video footage from the flight deck available would be a unwise at the very least.

McCain was offered a full benefits discharge because of his injuries & burns, but elected to both stay in the Navy & return to his air wing.

He was later shot down, broke his leg in the ejection (saving another crippled plane in the process), and was captured/tortured in the jungle camps & 'Hanoi Hilton' POW prison.
He refused an early release (because of his family, father & grandfather both Admirals), and he refused to 'Confess' to war crimes, the point of the torture.
5-1/2 YEARS of torture...

Both arms, a leg, knee cap on other leg, broken and not been set, his back was broken, he was tortured so badly his shoulders wouldn't allow raising his arms above shoulder level.
He walked with a limp the rest of his life, had constant pain and couldn't raise his arms high enough to comb his own hair...

These injuries alone while serving his country comments respect, and to do otherwise is unthinkable.

-----

He fought government pork,
He supported term limits,
He supported the military,
He supported, and beat financing out of Congress for the largest revamp of the VA system ever, and took no credit,
He worked tirelessly to reform political soft, gray & black money in elections.
He called for balanced budget amendments.

The GOP would rather GWB & Obama be president than him... That's where the false attacks came from, that people persist in repeating even though they have been disproven time after time.
It's been proven time after time the money to screw McCain came from far right wing groups, the GOP going as far as to stick him with Sara Palin as a running partner after 1-1/2 hours of interviews with her...

He knew the difference between a political opponent and an enemy.
Russia, North Korea & China hated the idea of McCain being president,

While he defended Obama when the 'Muslim' & 'Arab' rumors and lies were circulating, even though he was running against Obama for the Presidential nomination.
This alone should tell you what you need to know about him, he wasn't a fear monger or run a negative/dark campaign, decent man at all times.

Trump STILL hasn't communicated his condolences to the family, which tells me all I need to know about his character...
Getting 6 draft deferrals from Vietnam, but saying he "Always wanted a purple heart"... And now won't even acknowledge a war hero/Senator that has passed away in a horrible manner.

On a personal note, I spent 16 in the Marines, 14 deployed, 2 years in VA hospitals.
John McCain was the ONLY Senator we ever saw in the field, John McCain was the ONLY member of Congress that ever visited the VA hospital to see the wounded.
McCain worked with Bill Clinton to referbish or replace about half the VA hospitals.
While Clinton got the credit, McCain twisted arms everywhere to get the upgrades funded, which GWB stopped in '02.

He was a decent, honest, respectful man that dedicated his life to service for this country, and when people not fit to carry his luggage attack him, I will not stand by and do nothing.

 

[bobzilla]

I hate to see anyone suffer from something so horrible. But damn people. Term limits. 30years as a senator? Inexcusable.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

President Trump offered his “deepest sympathies and respect” to the family of Senator John McCain on Saturday night, setting aside a yearslong, bitter and often deeply personal feud between the two men that had lasted into the senator’s final days.

The president shared his condolences in a tweet, shortly after it was announced that Mr. McCain, who had been battling brain cancer, had died.
“Our hearts and prayers are with you!” he said.
The White House flag was lowered to half-staff on Saturday night in honor of Mr. McCain.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/26/us/politics/john-mccain-trump.html

 

[JeepHammer]

President Trump offered his “deepest sympathies and respect” to the family of Senator John McCain on Saturday night, setting aside a yearslong, bitter and often deeply personal feud between the two men that had lasted into the senator’s final days.

The president shared his condolences in a tweet, shortly after it was announced that Mr. McCain, who had been battling brain cancer, had died.
“Our hearts and prayers are with you!” he said.
The White House flag was lowered to half-staff on Saturday night in honor of Mr. McCain.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/26/us/politics/john-mccain-trump.html

Not to put too fine a point on it, but his ACCOUNT posted.
You have ZERO idea who wrote the post, and it wasn't on the POTUS account.

The flag over the Whitehouse is at full staff, and Trump has made ZERO official statement.
Unexcusable...
Shows exactly what kind of person he is (notice I didn't write 'Man').

 

[halfmileharry]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but his ACCOUNT posted.
You have ZERO idea who wrote the post, and it wasn't on the POTUS account.

The flag over the Whitehouse is at full staff, and Trump has made ZERO official statement.
Unexcusable...
Shows exactly what kind of person he is (notice I didn't write 'Man').

The flag WAS at half mast but as of this morning it's back at full mast.
The way McCain talked about Pres Trump I wouldn't have anything nice to say to or about McCain either.
JM went Dick Lugar by being in office too long.
I don't talk bad about the dead usually and I'll hold my tongue on this guy as well.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but his ACCOUNT posted.
You have ZERO idea who wrote the post, and it wasn't on the POTUS account.

The flag over the Whitehouse is at full staff, and Trump has made ZERO official statement.
Unexcusable...
Shows exactly what kind of person he is (notice I didn't write 'Man').

So you're saying all these tweets "his account" has been posting that have set liberal heads on fire, might not have been Trump at all? Huh. Somehow nobody has posited that theory. Every other tweet from his account has been taken as damning evidence. Maybe everyone is mad at him for no reason at all.

 

[bwframe]

 

[churchmouse]

The flag WAS at half mast but as of this morning it's back at full mast.
The way McCain talked about Pres Trump I wouldn't have anything nice to say to or about McCain either.
JM went Dick Lugar by being in office too long.
I don't talk bad about the dead usually and I'll hold my tongue on this guy as well.

OK. Every time a senator dies we put the flag at half mast...???
Not seen that or I was not paying attention. They are just people. Nothing special past you or I.
Yes he was a warrior. If they flew at half mast that was why.

JM was terrible about Trump. Openly and brazen about it. I think Decorum has been mt all things considered.

 

[bwframe]

What does all the liberals defending anything/everything McCain tell you?

 

[Trigger Time]

Yep, I think Trump handled it very well myself. I wouldnt worfy about anymore. McCain will not be short on the pomp and circumstance
There will be more of that this week than anyone could have their fill of. He was a man. We need to end this idea that men are great because they are allowed Into public service. They get rich and fat off of it. It isnt a sacrifice