SIG selected as new service handgun

[Expat]

In addition to the grips being full, compact and subcompact. You can also get each of those in three different sizes as well, small, medium and large (or you are supposed to). I would think that would be more stable and durable than putting those little slide in pieces.

 

[Route 45]

It's my understanding that when the design requirements were written for the new pistol, the P320 was the only one that met the exact requirements. If true, that tells me all I need to know about the "selection" process. I hope that the Army doesn't get stuck with an inferior product because of politics or back-door dealing. I know the polymer on the P320 that I owned seemed to be more flimsy than the polymer in other designs, like Glock, FN, Walther, HK, etc. We will soon see, I suppose.

Not sure why modularity is needed in a handgun design. The entire Army could be outfitted with the proven and durable Glock 19 for probably less cost, and the 19 is perfectly suited to both a secondary weapon handgun role and a covert role. IMO, this modularity "feature" is an answer to a question that nobody asked.

 

[gregr]

.

That's not how handgun terminal ballistics work.

Please do enlighten me...

 

[phylodog]

Actually, there are a decent number of them. Not only do you have various SF organizations that sometimes need to conceal, you also have, well, others.

And outside of MP units and those listed above, they really aren't issued to entire units. Key leadership will have them, as well as machine gunners and a few others. Most of the noncombatant types are assigned rifles that sit in racks.

SF will be carrying the G19 unless they don't fall under SOCOM. ( I thought they all did?)

 

[Woobie]

It's my understanding that when the design requirements were written for the new pistol, the P320 was the only one that met the exact requirements. If true, that tells me all I need to know about the "selection" process. I hope that the Army doesn't get stuck with an inferior product because of politics or back-door dealing.

Not sure why modularity is needed in a handgun design. The entire Army could be outfitted with the proven and durable Glock 19 for probably less cost, and the 19 is perfectly suited to both a secondary weapon handgun role and a covert role. IMO, this modularity "feature" is an answer to a question that nobody asked.

Maybe you don't know all the questions being asked, either. Warfare is changing, and there has been a great deal of emphasis placed on modularity at all levels in the Army. Tents are designed to be modular, LBE's are designed to be modular. So are ruck sacks, rifles, vehicles, on and on. The idea for over a decade now has been to put together enough of the right pieces so that commanders on the ground can assemble them in such a way that they can be best used for the mission at hand. This fits that philosophy.

You do know the Army ran this through the ringer, just as they did the rest of the pistols, don't you? The Glock has proven to be durable, yes. But so have many others. If proven reliability was the only desirable trait, they could have gone with S&W model 19's, or CZ 75's (a pistol with a much longer and more illustrious record than the Glock). But they were looking for things Glock wasn't willing to produce, which is frankly par for the course for that company, with some exceptions.

I know as gun guys we all need confirmation that we have great gear. And we want to think we were carrying what the Army does before the Army figured it out. But your mission is different than theirs. And the Army's mission is different than MARSOC's and the FBI's. This makes sense in a world not viewed through Internet expertise.

 

[Woobie]

SF will be carrying the G19 unless they don't fall under SOCOM. ( I thought they all did?)

They do. But a lot of those guys, especially the tier one types, have some latitude. There will still be Mk 25's used, and 1911's, and maybe a few M9's. The rules and purchasing are a little different over there.

 

[Woobie]

Please do enlighten me...

Energy is not a major factor in handgun lethality. The bullets ability to reach vital organs is the key. Heavy, slow moving projectiles also (for a given projectile design) tend to penetrate farther, because the lighter and faster bullet will tend to upset more easily. This is some good reading to shed some light:

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

It is a compilation of a lot of research by some very switched on professionals.

 

[redleg16]

I wonder how long until the surplus m9's hit the market?

 

[Woobie]

I wonder how long until the surplus m9's hit the market?

I'd like to have one, just cause. But beware buying sight unseen. The finish was not durable at all. They will rust if you say the words "rain", "humidity", or "sweat". A lot of them have pitting. Mechanically they range in condition from broken in and smooth to worn out.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

So a soldier is gonna have a full load out and cc his P320 in the subcompact configuration in the small of his back? Who the hell is gonna carry anything but a full size service pistol in a drop leg holster? The fall and rise of Ron Cohen

CID
Plain clothes protective details
Smaller handed pilots
Smaller handed MPs
Etc. etc. etc.

Too much standardization = stupid decisions. In "the old days" a mine clearing tank had a submachinegun. It was mounted to the wall in a space that was made for it. It was handy, readily accessible, and easy to get in and out of a cupola. Then M4s. They are much harder to maneuver in and out, can't mount to the wall so they are in the way, and are a pain in the backside to get out of a cupola.

The whole Army isn't walking 5m apart with a ruck on, and the guys who are generally aren't using a pistol anyway.

 

[phylodog]

They do. But a lot of those guys, especially the tier one types, have some latitude. There will still be Mk 25's used, and 1911's, and maybe a few M9's. The rules and purchasing are a little different over there.

I'm not sure that's as common as perhaps it once was. I trained under a couple of guys who were still active and as tip of the spear as it gets and they were not happy that their 1911 pistols had been taken away.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Energy is not a major factor in handgun lethality. The bullets ability to reach vital organs is the key. Heavy, slow moving projectiles also (for a given projectile design) tend to penetrate farther, because the lighter and faster bullet will tend to upset more easily. This is some good reading to shed some light:

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

It is a compilation of a lot of research by some very switched on professionals.

This.

 

[Trigger Time]

I'm not sure that's as common as perhaps it once was. I trained under a couple of guys who were still active and as tip of the spear as it gets and they were not happy that their 1911 pistols had been taken away.

I know a "delta" guy that shared this same sentiment with me about the 1911. Depends on their command structure.
i know guys I served with that can still carry M9's instead of GLOCK's if they want and some do.
I wish the Army would have adopted the GLOCK I has a sad

 

[phylodog]

Having spent six years in the Army, it isn't what I look to for equipment suggestions. I hope the Sig works well for the men and women who will carry it.

 

[Fargo]

I'm not sure that's as common as perhaps it once was. I trained under a couple of guys who were still active and as tip of the spear as it gets and they were not happy that their 1911 pistols had been taken away.

It is funny you say that. I trained under some of those probably the same unit guys too and they voiced similar things. Ironically though, a number of the guys I talked to were wanting Sigs...(Though not 320s. This was probably 2 years ago)

 

[Butch627]

Please do enlighten me...

There are numerous threads on this board discussing the ballistics and stopping power of 9mm vs 45. If you have not read any of them, than perhaps you should and discuss the results and your opinions in those threads rather than derailing this thread with a 45 vs 9mm discussion

 

[blue2golf]

I hope it's a good choice for our troops. I was in the black boot / BDU Army. I was issued an M9 and thought it was a good handgun, good enough I finally got one for myself last summer. Sure is fun to shoot.

 

[Trigger Time]

I hope it's a good choice for our troops. I was in the black boot / BDU Army. I was issued an M9 and thought it was a good handgun, good enough I finally got one for myself last summer. Sure is fun to shoot.

I started out in the black boot army. Then we got tan boots. Then boot shoes lol. God I feel old

 

[mjyctz]

P226?

 

[Woobie]

Having spent six years in the Army, it isn't what I look to for equipment suggestions. I hope the Sig works well for the men and women who will carry it.

Now with this I can definitely agree. I liked the p320 when it came out, and may snag one up someday just to play with. But there are a lot of pistols in line in front of it. The Army needs different things than I do. So do police. The only thing adoption by a large agency does is tell me it meets someone else's standards, which includes reliability. That is also important to me as well, but I'm also not demanding the same things of it. There are enough differences in my needs and the Army's, and enough good choices on the market that I can make a better choice than just buying what the Army or FBI does.