Subway armed robbery footage - whats the best action for an armed citizen?

[WestSider]

It's getting harder to imagine a situation where I would intervene. They came for the money. Give them the money.

Agreed.. I wouldn't be anxious to get into a gun fight here unless it's necessary... Even less if my family is with me.

 

[wakproductions]

Meh, since they pulled the Buffalo sauce, I've decided to take my business elsewhere...

But... Like Denny, a lot would have to do with who I was with. If my family is with me, try to position myself to draw unnoticed, shield my family and engage only if necessary. If I was by myself, I would be more likely to engage, but it would depend on position. If I'm between the two dirt bags, not likely gonna happen.

I'm surprised it was the Buffalo sauce and not the yoga mat chemicals that discouraged you from eating there. https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/these-foods-contain-chemicals-found-in-yoga-mats-group/

 

[Birds Away]

Agreed.. I wouldn't be anxious to get into a gun fight here unless it's necessary... Even less if my family is with me.

I never have felt all that heroic. I guess I am too much of a realist. Even if you were well trained there is always Murphy's law and that could be really bad in a gun fight.

 

[KittySlayer]

It's getting harder to imagine a situation where I would intervene. They came for the money. Give them the money.

If Subway cared about their money they would arm their employees.

If Subway cared about their employees they would arm them.

Subway survived giving a fat pervert lots of money, they could survive a shooting or two.

 

[Birds Away]

If Subway cared about their money they would arm their employees.

If Subway cared about their employees they would arm them.

Subway survived giving a fat pervert lots of money, they could survive a shooting or two.

There doesn't have to be a shooting. Just give them the money.

 

[T.Lex]

If they came for money, they can have it - even mine (since I hardly carry cash anymore and the card-based accounts are pretty locked down).

If they came to shoot the place up and hurt people, they'll probably get some return fire. I'm unlikely to be the first target in that scenario, so, while I feel bad for 20-something litmus test dude who probably will be, I'll wait for bad guy to show me how its going to go down. (If said 20-something is one of my kin, that does change things a bit.)

 

[KittySlayer]

There doesn't have to be a shooting. Just give them the money.

Then why did the bad guy bring a gun?

 

[lonehoosier]

Then why did the bad guy bring a gun?

Right?! I wished I had that crystal ball that tells me that he’s going to use it just for intimidation or actually use it to get what he wants.

 

[printcraft]

1. That won't happen when you are in there. Robbers picked their time.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^

The joint was empty.

And as far as the guy at the door, he was only keeping a watch outside, if anything happened to the counter guy he wouldn't have known it until it was over.

 

[nakinate]

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^

The joint was empty.

And as far as the guy at the door, he was only keeping a watch outside, if anything happened to the counter guy he wouldn't have known it until it was over.

The key with the second guy is being aware of him. It could be easy to have tunnel vision and not see him. You think you just won the encounter and then you’re getting shot by someone you didn’t see.

 

[STEEL CORE]

Bernhard Getz ...snub nose .38

 

[alabasterjar]

It's getting harder to imagine a situation where I would intervene. They came for the money. Give them the money.

The wild card here is the dirt bag and the fact that I can't read his mind. What if he decides he isn't seeing as much cash in the register as he anticipated & decides he's gonna see what he can shake out of the customers/employees? Now I am the object of his focus, which will more severely limit my ability to react. As discussed ad nauseam on these types of scenarios, there are too many variables that will change the response to really say for sure how I would respond.

 

[Thor]

When criminals show up with firearms they have already gone through the mental process (even if subliminally) to kill everyone in the place. It's just like a home invasion, if you're there they've already decided that they are going to kill you all to avoid being caught; there may be yelling and what not but they've already decided they're okay with you all being dead when it's over.

Me personally, if somebody pulls a gun they had better be ready for me to pull one too. I will not leave my friends and family...or me...to their discretion. If you've put me in a situation where I need to draw a weapon then I will be using it; gunfights are not won by he who shoots second.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Avoidance is good, but you're carrying in case you end up in a situation you didn't have the foreknowledge to avoid. How do you train for this? What do you train?

Crawl, walk, run.

Got to have your square range time in, and then you start moving against paper and then contact scenarios, then sims/force on force and prepare to fail, a lot.

 

[Thor]

Also, be prepared for a gun fight...and don't be where the gunfight starts. Gun stays in holster, other people not you are involved.

 

[wakproductions]

When criminals show up with firearms they have already gone through the mental process (even if subliminally) to kill everyone in the place. It's just like a home invasion, if you're there they've already decided that they are going to kill you all to avoid being caught; there may be yelling and what not but they've already decided they're okay with you all being dead when it's over.

Although giving them the money if that's all they want may be the best option, the situation could easily end up like one of these stories. Hard to tell if intervention of an armed citizen would make it better or worse. Roll of the dice I guess.

https://fox59.com/2017/10/16/clerk-shot-in-chest-during-armed-robbery-at-east-side-family-dollar/

https://fox59.com/2017/11/24/clerk-shot-dead-in-ft-wayne-attempted-robbery-of-gas-station/

https://fox59.com/2018/11/17/clerk-shot-after-attempted-robbery-on-near-west-side-shooter-at-large/

https://fox59.com/2018/05/27/impd-m...ting-inside-dollar-general-on-northeast-side/

 

[singlesix]

This reminds me of the Kroger robbery and shooting, the Mgr shot the robber, female who saw the shooting sued the Mgr for trauma. IIRC the suit didn't go anywhere, but who knows what it caused the Mgr.

 

[WestSider]

When you start doing a lot of sims / force on force training you realize that quite often there are nothing but losers in gun fights, regardless of who thinks they are John Wick going in. I'm not saying anyone is 100% wrong by taking action here, but I'm just pointing out that if you choose to start throwing lead there is a somewhat good likelihood that multiple people don't walk out of this store alive, including the cashier as well as you. Is that worth the probably $200 at most he got out of the register? Again not saying anyone is right or wrong, just some food for thought.

 

[churchmouse]

When criminals show up with firearms they have already gone through the mental process (even if subliminally) to kill everyone in the place. It's just like a home invasion, if you're there they've already decided that they are going to kill you all to avoid being caught; there may be yelling and what not but they've already decided they're okay with you all being dead when it's over.

Me personally, if somebody pulls a gun they had better be ready for me to pull one too. I will not leave my friends and family...or me...to their discretion. If you've put me in a situation where I need to draw a weapon then I will be using it; gunfights are not won by he who shoots second.

If by chance I am sitting there solo or with friends/family and this goes down yes my gun will be in my hand but at the low ready. Out of casual sight. The room will be scanned. It will be obvious who is an active player. If the money is taken and the assheads roll then my gun returns to its holster. If things escalate I will defend my position. If I am aware of the #2 man he will be covered when the 1st idiot has been stopped if possible.
If your SA is in full function these guys are to easy to spot.

But this is all just thinking out loud on the internet.

 

[WestSider]

There really is no 100% right or wrong answer here. Bottom line is you have to do what you feel you need to and be ready to defend your decision and live with the outcome (if you're still alive). Proper mindset and training will make you much more competent if you do choose to act, however.