Subway armed robbery footage - whats the best action for an armed citizen?

[Amishman44]

Living in the heart of it I go where I have to when I have to. Sometimes even stopping at places where some of you folks would drive right by. Head is most always on a swivel.

Again, with the concept of Situational Awareness as being the #1 Self-Defense key...with one's head-on-a-swivel...is the best preventative medicine against attack.
And, at the minimum, would allow you see, acknowledge/recognize and respond or begin to take steps to prevent the issue or begin to respond to the issue and get one's self out and in front of the situation, in a pro-active manner, either before it happens, or at least with enough time to be able to respond as necessary to it.

 

[wakproductions]

If you need a gun at all, you're in the wrong place. Problem is, who knew that something as innocuous as a Subway in Fishers is the wrong place?

Who would have ever guessed that a country music concert with armed security is the "wrong" place...

Bad stuff can happen anyway. Always be prepared and situationally aware.

 

[Amishman44]

1911 compact in .45. 7+1 plus a spare mag in the coat. If I need more than that I’m in the wrong place

I'm comfortable with a Glock 36 .45 acp with it's 6+1 set-up and an extra mag in a pocket.
I CC'd a 5-shot Ruger SP101 in .357 magnum for years...so 6+1 is fine with me.

 

[Spear Dane]

Change your order to go and GTFO.

 

[bwframe]

So 7-8 rounds is enough in a gunfight with two shooters with nothing to lose and 15/20+ rounds in their guns?

 

[churchmouse]

So 7-8 rounds is enough in a gunfight with two shooters with nothing to lose and 15/20+ rounds in their guns?

Well, depends on if you can actually shoot. If you get cornered and have to shoot it out no. But then again, if you are placing shots, get the 1st one clean then you may stand a chance. If you have zero training/experience with your EDC then no, you may well be screwed.

 

[INPatriot]

After watching the video and reading the thread, I think another way to look at this is to summarize a couple well made and critical bullet points, pardon the pun. Granted this does not answer the original question, but it puts me in a better position so I don't have to answer that question.

1) The suburbs are not immune.
2) Instinct says, a criminal, or a likely individual will always take the path of least resistance. Some have stated, the perpetrators have already crossed the point of no return emotionally and will do anything. Building upon a point previously made: What if the perpetrators scouted and picked this location at this time because they knew there'd be no resistance? Not to give an idiot too much credit, but scoping a place out night put them in a position where they can posture, but not have to administer what they might do with a weapon. Either way I don't want to find out.
3) For that reason, I'm not going in an establishment that would put me in the position of being the lone patron at closing/slow time. And I'm not going in when the someone holding the store open is most vulnerable, ie cleaning at closing time.
4) Another sub point of situational awareness (building off 2 & 3), I stick to drive thrus. I have more control in my vehicle than I do in an establishment.
5) We tend not to eat in. The family can wait until we are back on the road, if traveling, or at home to start eating.

 

[crewchief888]

Agreed.. I wouldn't be anxious to get into a gun fight here unless it's necessary... Even less if my family is with me.

i agree...
i think i'd discretely pull my weapon, and have it at the ready,
pointing a weapon in my direction will get you shot....

 

[Thor]

The family that shoots together has interlocking fields of fire. If I'm there with the fam I would not be the only person at the table with a weapon and trained to use it.

 

[Thor]

This is along the lines that I am thinking. But the if I have the family with me answer does not "seem" to be thinking along these lines. I have been pondering these situations and making some pre-loaded decisions. My biggest fear for a long time is a lack of situational awareness and that I not see the attack coming.

Same here, along with just not being there when it happens.

As to delaying action, how many mental boxes do you want to have to check off before acting...how many mental boxes has the criminal already checked off...I think he's down to that last one.

 

[T.Lex]

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/11/24/hoover-alabama-mall-shooting-wrong-man-killed/

Fight at a mall. Shots fired. Cops shoot a guy who had a gun. Claimed at first that he was the shooter.

Well... turns out he wasn't. He might've been involved with the fight, but wasn't the actual shooter they were looking for.

An officer shot and killed 21-year-old Emantic Fitzgerald Bradford, Jr. of Hueytown while responding to the Thursday mall shooting. Police said Bradford was fleeing the scene with a weapon.
Hoover Police initially told reporters Bradford had shot a teen at the mall, but later retracted the statement.


“We knew that was false,” said stepmother Cynthia Bradford when she heard police were blaming him for the shooting. She described her stepson, who went by E.J., as a respectful young man who is the son of a Birmingham police department officer.


Hoover Police Captain Gregg Rector said investigators now believe that more than two people were involved in the initial fight ahead of the shooting, and that “at least one gunman” is still at large who could be responsible. Rector said police regret that their initial statement about Bradford was not accurate.

 

[Denny347]

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/11/24/hoover-alabama-mall-shooting-wrong-man-killed/

Fight at a mall. Shots fired. Cops shoot a guy who had a gun. Claimed at first that he was the shooter.

Well... turns out he wasn't. He might've been involved with the fight, but wasn't the actual shooter they were looking for.

Very chaotic scenes.

 

[bwframe]

Myself, I'm not going to be quick to get my gun out of the holster, unless it's for sure time to shoot. With a very practiced draw, I can choose to keep my hand on the holstered gun or not, depending on circumstances. Holstering a gun can turn problematic even under the best of circumstances, let alone under stress.

A gun in hand may not go back into concealment easily, thus committing you to using it when it could have been avoided. The same could be said for timing and or positioning to not be forced to shooting when bystanders are at risk of being shot also.

And of course there is that whole thing about other good guys on the scene seeing your gun in hand and assuming you are part of the threat.

 

[MarkC]

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/11/24/hoover-alabama-mall-shooting-wrong-man-killed/

Fight at a mall. Shots fired. Cops shoot a guy who had a gun. Claimed at first that he was the shooter.

Well... turns out he wasn't. He might've been involved with the fight, but wasn't the actual shooter they were looking for.

As Denny notes, very chaotic scenes, and, unfortunately, sometimes bad things happen. Even with the best-trained and most well-intentioned officers.

AND... much of the story seems to be coming from the deceased's family, who are grieving, and see things from their side of the story.

Also, this, rightly or wrongly, makes me wonder about the deceased: [FONT=&quot]A spokesman for the Army, however, told The Washington Post that he “never completed advanced individual training,” and so did not serve.[/FONT]

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/11/24/hoover-alabama-mall-shooting-wrong-man-killed/

Fight at a mall. Shots fired. Cops shoot a guy who had a gun. Claimed at first that he was the shooter.

Well... turns out he wasn't. He might've been involved with the fight, but wasn't the actual shooter they were looking for.

They only shot him because he's black.

 

[roscott]

i agree...
i think i'd discretely pull my weapon, and have it at the ready,
pointing a weapon in my direction will get you shot....

This line of thinking seems pretty risky. (No offense intended, we’re all just Monday morning quarterbacking here...)

Seems like lots of answers have been along these lines though. But think through the scenario:
Gunman #1 is waving a gun around. You discreetly draw and wait, hoping they will snag the cash and run. Unfortunately he turns his attention to you (and spouse, kids...) and points his firearm as he begins to speak. Lightning fast, your gun comes up and you begin firing.

What is is his very first reaction? He jerks, and sympathetic squeeze goes the trigger. At least one round is fired point blank at you and your loved ones, perhaps followed by several others, even if you are firing fast and accurate.


I’m not saying I have the perfect answer, but the “wait and see” or “wait to shoot” route seems to give up the initiative, which may be your best ally.

 

[churchmouse]

This line of thinking seems pretty risky. (No offense intended, we’re all just Monday morning quarterbacking here...)

Seems like lots of answers have been along these lines though. But think through the scenario:
Gunman #1 is waving a gun around. You discreetly draw and wait, hoping they will snag the cash and run. Unfortunately he turns his attention to you (and spouse, kids...) and points his firearm as he begins to speak. Lightning fast, your gun comes up and you begin firing.

What is is his very first reaction? He jerks, and sympathetic squeeze goes the trigger. At least one round is fired point blank at you and your loved ones, perhaps followed by several others, even if you are firing fast and accurate.


I’m not saying I have the perfect answer, but the “wait and see” or “wait to shoot” route seems to give up the initiative, which may be your best ally.

I have to say (already have up thread) that I would also be at the low ready if possible.

 

[wakproductions]

As far as situational awareness is concerned, wasn't it mentioned above by LEO's and locals that they wouldn't be there in the first place?

I get made fun of for my urban paranoia when it comes to food, shopping or fuel stops in the city. If I'm not familiar with the establishment and there is a choice in the matter, I always err on the side of driving out of the city for my stops.

Living that way, you miss out on a lot of positive experiences too that could be gained from exploring new places.

 

[bwframe]

Living that way, you miss out on a lot of positive experiences too that could be gained from exploring new places.

Why would anyone want to go where cops don't want to go? Why do you think there was no one in the store in the first video?

 

[churchmouse]

Why would anyone want to go where cops don't want to go? Why do you think there was no one in the store in the first video?

Believe it or not that store on W16th st does a fair amount of business. Always customer traffic when I drive by.

In this I will have to say that the bad guys are fairly Mobile. They get around and are not put off by the area. Unless they are on foot and live close by of course.
It matters not where you live. They can find you if they want to. Look art what happened in Brownsburg a few summers ago. No one out there even dreamed that would go down in their area.