Sunday Sales Dies in Committee 2017

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  • CHCRandy

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    I have a good friend that has made millions of dollars owning liquor stores. I use to give him hell for complaining all the time about laws, regulations and rules they place on him, when his family had made a small fortune on it.....I figured it was the cost of doing business. Then I seen them start allowing every little shop to sell beer...then it was liquor, then it was it could be sold on the floor with no special precaution to prevent kids from stealing it, then cashiers could be 19 and unlicensed to sell, etc.

    In other words, the retailers brought this on themselves. They are just like the nasty liberal gun grabbers. Give them a foot and they will ask for a leg, give them that leg and they will want both legs....you get the point. You have liquor stores that paid $500,000 for a liquor store permit to protect their "territory" from competition so they could recoup costs spent on permits and building stores. Keep in mind you can't just buy the permit and keep others from having it, you must open a new store within 5 years! That's another $500,000...so now you have $1,000,000 invested to just protect your livelihood. Then "your" store is for only those 21 and above, your clerks have to be licensed, the state controls what else you can sell in "your" store.

    Grocery stores already have an unfair advantage that shouldn't exist. They should be required, at a minimum, to follow the same rules as a liquor store, which existed long before the grocery retailers were allowed to sell booze on an open floor by unlicensed cashiers. If a Kroger's cashier gets 3 DWI's, Krogers can still sell...if the liquor store owner gets 3 DWI's...he loses his permit that he invested $1M in. Grocery retailers can sell beer at a loss...a liquor store has a mandated minimum price they have to sell at....kind of like the cigarette minimum price.

    Grocery stores could have eliminated this had they agreed to play by the rules....but they don't want to play by the rules. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

    Right now there is only 2 things that keep liquor stores in business....cold beer and loyalty. I don't personally drink myself and could care less what happens with this either way. But just looking at it from a common sense, un-biased view.....I can see why the liquor stores fight this stuff like they do.

    Imagine a FFL costing you $100,000 to sell guns, then a few years later them allowing every little shop to sell them with a $100 permit and no background check....that's probably how these businessmen feel. Just my 2 cents....and it aint worth that.

    http://www.ibj.com/articles/30888-hendricks-county-hotspot-for-package-liquor-permits
     

    jamil

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    Why is it up to government to pass laws to protect ones livelihood from competition? And why should they protect YOUR FRIEND's livelihood and not others? Stuff changes. People invent new ways to distribute products. Old ways become more obsolete. Permits shouldn't be used as a membership to an exclusive club, or to favor or preserve a particular business model indefinitely. Let the market decide that.

    Your friend made good money using a specific business model while that business model was viable. As industries and distribution trends evolve, some business models become less popular with consumers. It's not government's job to impose artificial inconvenience on consumers just so your friend's business model is preserved. He should either adapt or fail.

    Let consumers decide what they want and how they want to obtain it by letting them vote with their dollars. If they'd rather purchase their drunken stupor from a grocery store, then grocery stores should be able to accommodate them. Don't whine to government and try to use it as a weapon against your competitors, just because another retail venue has figured out a more convenient way to sell the same product liquor stores sell. Adapt or fail.
     

    bulletsmith

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    All you have to do is buy a car and drive over the state line to buy your alcohol... Oh wait, you can't do that on Sunday, in Indiana, either. Yay for small gov.
     

    CHCRandy

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    Why is it up to government to pass laws to protect ones livelihood from competition? And why should they protect YOUR FRIEND's livelihood and not others? Stuff changes. People invent new ways to distribute products. Old ways become more obsolete. Permits shouldn't be used as a membership to an exclusive club, or to favor or preserve a particular business model indefinitely. Let the market decide that.

    Your friend made good money using a specific business model while that business model was viable. As industries and distribution trends evolve, some business models become less popular with consumers. It's not government's job to impose artificial inconvenience on consumers just so your friend's business model is preserved. He should either adapt or fail.

    Let consumers decide what they want and how they want to obtain it by letting them vote with their dollars. If they'd rather purchase their drunken stupor from a grocery store, then grocery stores should be able to accommodate them. Don't whine to government and try to use it as a weapon against your competitors, just because another retail venue has figured out a more convenient way to sell the same product liquor stores sell. Adapt or fail.


    That exact thing could be said about the grocery stores.....
     

    jamil

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    That exact thing could be said about the grocery stores.....

    Well, that's kinda the point. Take government out of the business of crony support for one or another business model. They shouldn't be choosing winners and losers. If we must have silly regulations, grocery stores should have to abide by no more and no less than liquor stores. And if liquor stores can't survive with a level playing field, they'll need to either adapt or fail. Same with grocery stores.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Well, that's kinda the point. Take government out of the business of crony support for one or another business model. They shouldn't be choosing winners and losers. If we must have silly regulations, grocery stores should have to abide by no more and no less than liquor stores. And if liquor stores can't survive with a level playing field, they'll need to either adapt or fail. Same with grocery stores.

    And kill the zoning laws that keeps bars out of residential neighborhoods. Back in the day you could drink in the neighborhood pub. Had too much? No biggie, the house is less than a mile away so you can walk. Now? "gee, I have no choice but to drive. Its only 5 miles, I can handle it" (says the drunken brain)

    Im glad to see this attitude against allowing sunday sales doesnt seem to be carrying over to Constitutional carry or removing suppressors off the NFA. The last thing we need is a bunch of early adopters saying "Screw that! I paid for my tax stamps/Larry, the new guys can too! Harrumph!"
     

    CHCRandy

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    Well, that's kinda the point. Take government out of the business of crony support for one or another business model. They shouldn't be choosing winners and losers. If we must have silly regulations, grocery stores should have to abide by no more and no less than liquor stores. And if liquor stores can't survive with a level playing field, they'll need to either adapt or fail. Same with grocery stores.

    If I were a drinker....I would drink to that. I agree with you.
     

    Alpo

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    I always wanted to have a margarita truck.....kinda like the ice cream man? You drive around the neighborhoods on a warm sunny day and all the parents who are at their wits end run to the curb and get a fresh margarita to take the edge off the day.

    Liquor stores wouldn't like it. Then there are those pesky Sin Police that Indiana employs.

    Whatever happened to free enterprise?

    0da08ef303a123ae388ab9913313775e.jpg
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    I always wanted to have a margarita truck.....kinda like the ice cream man? You drive around the neighborhoods on a warm sunny day and all the parents who are at their wits end run to the curb and get a fresh margarita to take the edge off the day.

    Liquor stores wouldn't like it. Then there are those pesky Sin Police that Indiana employs.

    Whatever happened to free enterprise?

    0da08ef303a123ae388ab9913313775e.jpg

    I saw a mobile bar, which had started life as an ice cream truck, in Douglas AZ in the late 90's.
     

    seedubs1

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    This. The .gov needs to stop picking winners and losers. Right now, where I live, there is one liquor store chain, and that's all the .gov will let there be. They've essentially put their .gov stamp on a monopoly.

    Not only that, you can't order liquor online and have it shipped to the good ol' state of IN (you can in other states).

    So much for a free country.

    Well, that's kinda the point. Take government out of the business of crony support for one or another business model. They shouldn't be choosing winners and losers. If we must have silly regulations, grocery stores should have to abide by no more and no less than liquor stores. And if liquor stores can't survive with a level playing field, they'll need to either adapt or fail. Same with grocery stores.
     

    jamil

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    This. The .gov needs to stop picking winners and losers. Right now, where I live, there is one liquor store chain, and that's all the .gov will let there be. They've essentially put their .gov stamp on a monopoly.

    Not only that, you can't order liquor online and have it shipped to the good ol' state of IN (you can in other states).

    So much for a free country.

    Keep in mind that "freedom" isn't a dichotomy, where we're either free or not. If you want to think of it as a dichotomy, no one is ever absolutely free.

    There are degrees of freedom. And by and large Indiana is freer than most other states. We're just not freer when it comes to buying alcohol sales. Looking at CATO's freedom index, Indiana has steadily moved up the index over the past 10 years to 3rd overall now. But we're 9th in personal freedom. Fixing the silly laws on alcohol sales would move us up in that category and in the regulatory category. Fixing gun laws would help move us up overall too. We're #17 in gun rights (another reason to call and make Bosma's and Smaltz's today a day of reckoning about constitutional carry).
     

    JettaKnight

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    Maybe they should make grocery stores and quicky marts play by the same rules as a liquor store. Make the grocery store have a 21 to enter area, a limited number of $100,000 permits issued by population, and all cashiers licensed. The liquor store don't want to be open on Sunday's...it increases their employee expenses 15%, why should they change their business model just because Krogers is open already on Sunday and wants to sell booze? That's like buying a house in the country by a pig farm then wanting the farmer to stop raising pigs because they stink. Or buying a house on a lake then complaining of fish smell and goose crap. Them snowflakes knew the rule when they decided to start selling booze....now they want to change them.

    Truth be told....they should have never allowed them places to start selling booze the way they do. Alcohol is the number one item to be stolen at Danville Kroger's.......and I imagine a lot of that theft is by underage people.

    So...you're answer is more laws? :dunno:


    Sounds like there's some teetotal-ling biases.


    I do most of my liquor buying at a large liquor store chain here in Fort Wayne, and only buy from Meijer when the price difference can't be ignored. The reason is, I've gotten to know and trust my "spirit vendor" at my favorite store.

    Kroger can sell meat on Sundays, but our local butcher has a store that in the same mall... they're closed on Sundays yet still do very well. :dunno:
     

    Cameramonkey

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    So...you're answer is more laws? :dunno:


    Sounds like there's some teetotal-ling biases.


    I do most of my liquor buying at a large liquor store chain here in Fort Wayne, and only buy from Meijer when the price difference can't be ignored. The reason is, I've gotten to know and trust my "spirit vendor" at my favorite store.

    Kroger can sell meat on Sundays, but our local butcher has a store that in the same mall... they're closed on Sundays yet still do very well. :dunno:

    No, he is saying that they need to follow EXISTING laws, not MORE laws. Let them have sunday sales, but make them follow the laws that the liquor stores already follow. I think that was offered as an option during debate last year. Funny thing is they would be screwed because of the limits on food and beverages that liquor stores have to follow. First casualty would be those coolers at the checkouts full of cold soft drinks.

    Somebody had a reasonable proposal as I recall. It would give all sunday sales, grocers cold sales, and lift the food/beverage limits on the liquor stores. Then somebody threw in that poison pill above which destroyed its chances. (maybe it was another poison pill, but I recall the first iteration was a good mix for both sides, but somebody got butthurt and made it crash and burn. )
     

    CHCRandy

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    So...you're answer is more laws? :dunno:


    Sounds like there's some teetotal-ling biases.


    I do most of my liquor buying at a large liquor store chain here in Fort Wayne, and only buy from Meijer when the price difference can't be ignored. The reason is, I've gotten to know and trust my "spirit vendor" at my favorite store.

    Kroger can sell meat on Sundays, but our local butcher has a store that in the same mall... they're closed on Sundays yet still do very well. :dunno:

    I didn't really have an "answer". I would just as soon have no laws, no courts and no taxes and a disagreement be resolved with who draws quicker and is the better aim.....but I am a realist and know that is not possible. Truth be told...they should have no laws and regulations on booze. I am simply saying that since it is regulated, and will continue to be...just make them all play by the same rules. The grocery stores could have had a "new law" passed if they would have accepted playing by the same rules that existed for years. The way I see it the guys wanting a "law" passed for Sunday sales are the ones wanting new laws.

    Your statement on your "spirit dealer" is one reason liquor stores stay in business, like I said before, loyalty and cold beer. The deck really is getting stacked against them and without loyal customers and good customer service, they won't last. Once Sunday sales is passed, then the grocery stores will start on cold beer saying they should be able to sell it.....and 10 years from now we will be talking about that.
     

    CHCRandy

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    No, he is saying that they need to follow EXISTING laws, not MORE laws. Let them have sunday sales, but make them follow the laws that the liquor stores already follow. I think that was offered as an option during debate last year. Funny thing is they would be screwed because of the limits on food and beverages that liquor stores have to follow. First casualty would be those coolers at the checkouts full of cold soft drinks.

    Somebody had a reasonable proposal as I recall. It would give all sunday sales, grocers cold sales, and lift the food/beverage limits on the liquor stores. Then somebody threw in that poison pill above which destroyed its chances. (maybe it was another poison pill, but I recall the first iteration was a good mix for both sides, but somebody got butthurt and made it crash and burn. )

    :yesway:
     

    jamil

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    I didn't really have an "answer". I would just as soon have no laws, no courts and no taxes and a disagreement be resolved with who draws quicker and is the better aim.....but I am a realist and know that is not possible. Truth be told...they should have no laws and regulations on booze. I am simply saying that since it is regulated, and will continue to be...just make them all play by the same rules. The grocery stores could have had a "new law" passed if they would have accepted playing by the same rules that existed for years. The way I see it the guys wanting a "law" passed for Sunday sales are the ones wanting new laws.

    Your statement on your "spirit dealer" is one reason liquor stores stay in business, like I said before, loyalty and cold beer. The deck really is getting stacked against them and without loyal customers and good customer service, they won't last. Once Sunday sales is passed, then the grocery stores will start on cold beer saying they should be able to sell it.....and 10 years from now we will be talking about that.

    I'm gonna disagree here. The right answer in a dispute is not determined by the one who is better able to kill the other. Disagreements between individuals in a society shouldn't be settled by fists or guns. They should be debated. And if necessary, courts should decide who wins the debate. Other than that, I agree that we should stop trying to regulate every damn behavior. You wanna drink? Fine by me. Just don't do it in a way that impacts me. Other vises? Same rules. And if you do impact me with your vises, there should be a civil justice system with courts and enforcement to decide, order and execute a just solution.
     

    JettaKnight

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    I pose this question: What's wrong with 50% - 80% of the traditional liquor stores going out of business because of competition from big box grocery stores?

    If their services can be rendered from someone else that has less restrictions, then so what? If the 50 or so liquor stores in Fort Wayne turn into 10 because Meijer and Kroger are more efficient at selling booze, I shall not shed a tear. I could care less that undue regulations strangled the Big Liquor*.

    I will continue to seek out my spirit vendor...




    * I said that right - I could care less, I could also care more. I don't like regulation strangling businesses, but also I don't like rent-seekers, so I care a little.
     
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