Trump to sign order launching voter fraud commission

[Denny347]

I think this smells an awful lot like a false dichotomy. People are either moral and reasonable like you, or they want to return back to only allowing land owners to vote.

I think it's fine to take reasonable steps to ensure people are legal residents of the USA, and of the district in which they're voting. The time to prove citizenship and residency is when we register to vote. Then when we vote, we prove we are indeed the person who registered with an ID. Yes. Things can be forged. No system is perfect. I think the way Indiana does it is fine.

See, there is an in-between moral perfection and thinking only land owners and can pass a test should vote.

Yeah, in Indiana we show ID, not a big deal. Is that what people are talking about when referring to "proof of citizenship"? I still think that the FEAR of voter fraud is greater than the actual fraud that might be happening. Maybe we need to concentrate more on getting more eligible voters to the pole. This last election saw a "huge" turnout at 60% of eligible voters actually voting...shameful. Local elections are even worse. The "fraud" is the amount of apathy our fellow citizens show towards the Democratic process and choose to stay home.

 

[Thor]

I would not be opposed to only net tax payers getting a vote. If you are taking out more than you are putting in you shouldn't get to vote yourself the treasury.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I would not be opposed to only net tax payers getting a vote. If you are taking out more than you are putting in you shouldn't get to vote yourself the treasury.

That's a horrible idea. Why shouldn't people who are subject to a nation's laws not have a voice? We're not the Roman Empire. We don't have a subclass of citizens.

 

[BugI02]

That's a horrible idea. Why shouldn't people who are subject to a nation's laws not have a voice? We're not the Roman Empire. We don't have a subclass of citizens.

Wait, now I'm confused. I thought proving that we do have a subclass (people of color) was your raison d'etre

 

[IndyDave1776]

I would not be opposed to only net tax payers getting a vote. If you are taking out more than you are putting in you shouldn't get to vote yourself the treasury.

I would have to disagree, but then again, if we actually bothered to follow the Constitution there would be no opening for anyone to vote themselves money from the treasury.

 

[BugI02]

Yeah, in Indiana we show ID, not a big deal. Is that what people are talking about when referring to "proof of citizenship"? I still think that the FEAR of voter fraud is greater than the actual fraud that might be happening. Maybe we need to concentrate more on getting more eligible voters to the pole. This last election saw a "huge" turnout at 60% of eligible voters actually voting...shameful. Local elections are even worse. The "fraud" is the amount of apathy our fellow citizens show towards the Democratic process and choose to stay home.

Yes, and it should not be a big deal. But many, overwhelmingly part of one political party, fight tooth and nail against it claiming it disenfranchises some voters. I believe it is difficult to go about ones daily business in America without some form of government ID (to cash checks, do banking etc) and I find the excuses disingenuous (especially when .gov concurrently offers to make acquiring government ID easier/accessible to those who lack such things as a drivers license). I think places such as California, that have found it necessary/desirable to issue illegals drivers licenses, are de facto admitting that it is difficult to live in the modern society without such widely acceptable ID. They do us and themselves an enormous disservice in adopting the solution they have in a misguided attempt to be/seem compassionate

If you really wanted to make government ID more secure, chip technology such as EMV in credit cards could be adopted. It won't result in zero fraud but will reduce the possibility by orders of magnitude

People who wish to argue that voter fraud is a miniscule part of actual voting one would think would get out of the way of an actual survey of the problem. If they are so sure of the results they assert, why are they so against running the experiment?

 

[IndyDave1776]

Yes, and it should not be a big deal. But many, overwhelmingly part of one political party, fight tooth and nail against it claiming it disenfranchises some voters. I believe it is difficult to go about ones daily business in America without some form of government ID (to cash checks, do banking etc) and I find the excuses disingenuous (especially when .gov concurrently offers to make acquiring government ID easier/accessible to those who lack such things as a drivers license). I think places such as California, that have found it necessary/desirable to issue illegals drivers licenses, are de facto admitting that it is difficult to live in the modern society without such widely acceptable ID. They do us and themselves an enormous disservice in adopting the solution they have in a misguided attempt to be/seem compassionate

If you really wanted to make government ID more secure, chip technology such as EMV in credit cards could be adopted. It won't result in zero fraud but will reduce the possibility by orders of magnitude

People who wish to argue that voter fraud is a miniscule part of actual voting one would think would get out of the way of an actual survey of the problem. If they are so sure of the results they assert, why are they so against running the experiment?

Are you suggesting that the Democrats understand that most dead folks, foreign nationals, small children, fictional characters, cats, dogs, and horses who vote will vote Democrat?

 

[BugI02]

I understand that dead people are highly reliable Democratic voters, I believe they vote Democrat 100% (at least in Cook County). Putin must be jealous. Maybe that's why he was hacking Democrats - to learn fraud at the feet of the masters

 

[Thor]

Why shouldn't people who are subject to a nation's laws not have a voice?

If someone else is paying for you, you shouldn't get a vote in how much you're going to get. Don't like that outcome? Fine, go get a job.

 

[Thor]

I would have to disagree, but then again, if we actually bothered to follow the Constitution there would be no opening for anyone to vote themselves money from the treasury.

Well there's that...

 

[Kutnupe14]

If someone else is paying for you, you shouldn't get a vote in how much you're going to get. Don't like that outcome? Fine, go get a job.

So you think that the college students, the vast majority who receive loans from the govt, should be disenfranchised until they graduate and start paying it back?

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I keep seeing this "proof of citizenship" term thrown around but I have yet seen it defined. What constitutes proof? SS card? Those are forged every day. Birth certificate? You can be born here and not be a citizen. It's not like we are issued citizenship papers we all must carry with us and produce when asked by the government...

If your state issues a SecureID driver's license, that suffices... otherwise, it is typically birth certificate and Social Security card. Then, just like getting the DL, add two addressed envelopes (bank statements, utility bills, etc) to confirm address.

You do realize that the Obama administration and Democrats have fought tooth and nail to prevent states from even asking for a SSN on the registration, right? Only a checkbox that says you're a US Citizen with zero verification.


...

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Are you suggesting that the Democrats understand that most dead folks, foreign nationals, small children, fictional characters, cats, dogs, and horses who vote will vote Democrat?

When it comes to things like guns and healthcare, democrats are often heard to clamor for the US to follow how they do it in Europe (or other advanced countries)...how do countries in Europe vet their voters? I've never looked into it.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

When it comes to things like guns and healthcare, democrats are often heard to clamor for the US to follow how they do it in Europe (or other advanced countries)...how do countries in Europe vet their voters? I've never looked into it.

Just checked France... they automatically register their citizens when they turn 18, so there is no voter registration, just address changes. Hmmm... this sounds promising... Every US citizen with a social security number is automatically registered to vote in federal elections at 18. Send a change of address (with your SSN) to change the location of your registration.

Voila... every eligible citizen is registered, zero non-citizens are registered.

http://www.elections-legislatives.fr/en/voting.asp

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Just checked France... they automatically register their citizens when they turn 18, so there is no voter registration, just address changes. Hmmm... this sounds promising.

"Their citizens"??? That's kinda the sticking point we seem to both have...wonder how they resolve that little quandary?

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I understand that dead people are highly reliable Democratic voters, I believe they vote Democrat 100% (at least in Cook County). Putin must be jealous. Maybe that's why he was hacking Democrats - to learn fraud at the feet of the masters

Must spread rep... so, instead:

 

[SheepDog4Life]

In the UK, you can register online, or fill out a form and mail it in. The registration form requires your National Insurance Number (or an explanation) which every UK citizens is issued when they turn 16.

Kinda sounds like requiring a SSN on the registration, don't it?

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ister_to_vote_living_in_england_and_wales.pdf

 

[Denny347]

Just checked France... they automatically register their citizens when they turn 18, so there is no voter registration, just address changes. Hmmm... this sounds promising... Every US citizen with a social security number is automatically registered to vote in federal elections at 18. Send a change of address (with your SSN) to change the location of your registration.

Voila... every eligible citizen is registered, zero non-citizens are registered.

Voting - General elections in France - 2012

I like that on many levels and addresses many issues with our current system.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I like that on many levels and addresses many issues with our current system.

Except who's a citizen and do you have any way of proving it.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Except who's a citizen and do you have any way of proving it.

By social security number... the normal process is to apply for an SSN at the hospital when the child is born. This is how all of my children received their SSN and card.

No idea what the process is for children born to citizens when abroad, but I would surmise that if one travels abroad, they know how to get a passport, so applying for an SSN for their children is relatively simpler process than that.

And, naturalized citizens receive their SSN when they receive their green card and update their status from LPR to citizen using their certificate of naturalization. This could be changed to "automatic registration" also...