Two killed, 1 critically injured in shooting at Texas church

[7.62]

Great job by the guy who took down the bad guy. Appears at least 6 church members were armed. Praying for the victims and their families. Hope the second church member shot pulls through.

 

[red_zr24x4]

I would hope no one is turning a blind eye to this. I am trying to understand why after reading about a horrible act, would you feel better informed by watching the victims being shot? I see so many seem to want to actually watch it unfold. Why? You’ve read the article to find out what happened but now want to see it? Has nothing to about whether I can stomach it or not which is what someone else said.
So yeah when someone says “got anymore video of this”....

Maybe to see what tactics were used, what hints or give aways the BG was armed.
As someone who is on the church security, id like all the info I can get.

 

[Vigilant]

ZNow that I’ve seen the video, no less than three armed responders were in the church at the time, don’t know how this could have played out much different? The shooter appears to approach a guy, then back off and shoot, the guy behind the first victim draws, and dispatches the shooter. Then two or more armed people move toward the shooters body. I’d be interested in knowing what the initial interaction was before it went loud.

 

[Rick Mason]

I love that it looks like six people drew on the guy. It shows excellent discipline that only two fired, and no one else but the shooter apparently was hit by them.

Also...Quoth the sheriff: “Today evil walked boldly among us, let me remind you, good people raised up and stopped it before it got worse.”

https://crimeresearch.org/2019/12/texas-church-shooting-stopped-by-person-legally-carrying-a-gun/

 

[JCSR]

Hey pal, when you find yourself standing in a hole with a shovel in hand it’s probably a good idea to stop digging and drop the shovel.

Could be the recent warm temps are causing some melting of snowflakes........

 

[Vigilant]

Why are the ATF always, "...headed to the scene to assist with the investigation..."? Did they rush to the scene of the shootings this weekend in Chicago?

Probably already there in force, doing much of nothing?

 

[rvb]

Sorry CM but I dont need to search out video and pictures of people getting sensuously slain to be informed. I'm pretty sure we all know whats going on by now. Do you not agree that plastering this all over every inch of media is just fueling the fire?

no, I learn way more from the vid than I will other news sources. For instance, the first guy shot stood and took 4-5 seconds to draw his gun. He barely cleared his holster before being shot down. His gun handling and his willingness to act sucked and it cost him. The gunman had his gun on the other guy so he should have had time to put the gunman down. We can learn from this. 2 seconds from reaction to first shot would have had an entirely different outcome than his 5+ seconds to first shot. There’s no way I will "be informed" of these kinds of lessons through traditional media outlets. They will lump this into every other "mass shooting" and use it as fuel to take our rights away.... for that reason I think yes, we need to see the raw truth.

-rvb

 

[thunderchicken]

I would hope no one is turning a blind eye to this. I am trying to understand why after reading about a horrible act, would you feel better informed by watching the victims being shot? I see so many seem to want to actually watch it unfold. Why? You’ve read the article to find out what happened but now want to see it? Has nothing to about whether I can stomach it or not which is what someone else said.
So yeah when someone says “got anymore video of this”....

For me, its not about whatching the victims get shot or the BG being shot. The article was most likely edited in some way and likely leaves out details regarding body language, how those unsuspecting may respond, what those who responded did right or what might be a better response. Such as how being strategically positioned in the sanctuary may be of benefit etc. Much to learn from such videos. Also, I believe many LE agencies use similar videos for training purposes as well (at least they did almost 20yrs ago when I was a court deputy). If you aren't interested in learning in that manner, fine but don't try to look down on those who want to learn from actual evidence. If reading the article makes you feel more prepared to respond if such an event were to happen at your church, so be it..I hope it does.

 

[thunderchicken]

I love that it looks like six people drew on the guy. It shows excellent discipline that only two fired, and no one else but the shooter apparently was hit by them.

Also...Quoth the sheriff: “Today evil walked boldly among us, let me remind you, good people raised up and stopped it before it got worse.”

https://crimeresearch.org/2019/12/texas-church-shooting-stopped-by-person-legally-carrying-a-gun/

Great quote from the Sheriff

 

[thunderchicken]

no, I learn way more from the vid than I will other news sources. For instance, the first guy shot stood and took 4-5 seconds to draw his gun. He barely cleared his holster before being shot down. His gun handling and his willingness to act sucked and it cost him. The gunman had his gun on the other guy so he should have had time to put the gunman down. We can learn from this. 2 seconds from reaction to first shot would have had an entirely different outcome than his 5+ seconds to first shot. There’s no way I will "be informed" of these kinds of lessons through traditional media outlets. They will lump this into every other "mass shooting" and use it as fuel to take our rights away.... for that reason I think yes, we need to see the raw truth.

-rvb

I haven't seen the video as I can't find it, but well said and good observations

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I love that it looks like six people drew on the guy. It shows excellent discipline that only two fired, and no one else but the shooter apparently was hit by them.

Also...Quoth the sheriff: “Today evil walked boldly among us, let me remind you, good people raised up and stopped it before it got worse.”

https://crimeresearch.org/2019/12/texas-church-shooting-stopped-by-person-legally-carrying-a-gun/

That should be required to be part of every single pro-gun, or even luke warm gun supporting candidate's campaign commercials/speeches. Someone should deliver a large framed copy of that to Govenor Northram in VA.

 

[Vigilant]

I haven't seen the video as I can't find it, but well said and good observations

One such video is at Townhall.com I’m not sure it’s the best one out there, but you can definitely see what’s going on.

 

[rvb]

I haven't seen the video as I can't find it, but well said and good observations

theblaze.com is where I saw it
/news/shooting_parishioners_return_fire

 

[T-DOGG]

What an absolute tragedy and the victims are in my thoughts.

As a civilian who practices self defense training, I wish we had more access to these kinds of videos. Yes, they are difficult to watch from an emotional standpoint, because good people don't enjoy watching other good people get hurt or killed, however they are a great visual teaching aid. One cannot fully grasp the importance of how much can happen in just a few seconds until they see something like this.

 

[alabasterjar]

I would hope no one is turning a blind eye to this. I am trying to understand why after reading about a horrible act, would you feel better informed by watching the victims being shot? I see so many seem to want to actually watch it unfold. Why? You’ve read the article to find out what happened but now want to see it? Has nothing to about whether I can stomach it or not which is what someone else said.
So yeah when someone says “got anymore video of this”....

Not trying to dogpile, but as a leader of our congregation's safety & security ministry, there is a lot to be gleaned from videos like this (which i have not yet). I'd be interested in as much video prior to, during & after to better understand how the subject acted beforehand, are there any tells in his behavior prior to the shooting, when he presented the shotgun, was he aiming at specific people, or did the shots appear to be random, did parishioners that rushed him and/ or return fire come directly at him or from behind him or in his periphery?

After spending time in this forum, especially given the posters involved, it seems bizarre to jump straight to "getting enjoyment out of this kind of evil".

 

[Vigilant]

Not trying to dogpile, but as a leader of our congregation's safety & security ministry, there is a lot to be gleaned from videos like this (which i have not yet). I'd be interested in as much video prior to, during & after to better understand how the subject acted beforehand, are there any tells in his behavior prior to the shooting, when he presented the shotgun, was he aiming at specific people, or did the shots appear to be random, did parishioners that rushed him and/ or return fire come directly at him or from behind him or in his periphery?

After spending time in this forum, especially given the posters involved, it seems bizarre to jump straight to "getting enjoyment out of this kind of evil".

Well stated.

 

[Hoosier Carry]

Hey pal, when you find yourself standing in a hole with a shovel in hand it’s probably a good idea to stop digging and drop the shovel.

No hole has been dug, no snow is melting. Just a difference of opinion is all. I’m still on our side don’t worry.
Ill quit before someone has a breakdown.

 

[JCSR]

Not trying to dogpile, but as a leader of our congregation's safety & security ministry, there is a lot to be gleaned from videos like this (which i have not yet). I'd be interested in as much video prior to, during & after to better understand how the subject acted beforehand, are there any tells in his behavior prior to the shooting, when he presented the shotgun, was he aiming at specific people, or did the shots appear to be random, did parishioners that rushed him and/ or return fire come directly at him or from behind him or in his periphery?

After spending time in this forum, especially given the posters involved, it seems bizarre to jump straight to "getting enjoyment out of this kind of evil".

The vid I saw shows the dude sitting up front near a doorway. Dressing in black with a HOODIE PULLED UP. This alone would have got my attention and I would have started to formulate a plan. I'm not sure if any of the security force noticed by thier slow reaction.

 

[bwframe]

Active Self Protection does a very good analysis...

[video=youtube;s5NzuGSkL2E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5NzuGSkL2E&feature=youtu.be[/video]

 

[MCgrease08]

What an absolute tragedy and the victims are in my thoughts.

As a civilian who practices self defense training, I wish we had more access to these kinds of videos. Yes, they are difficult to watch from an emotional standpoint, because good people don't enjoy watching other good people get hurt or killed, however they are a great visual teaching aid. One cannot fully grasp the importance of how much can happen in just a few seconds until they see something like this.

If you're not already subscribed, the Active Self Protection channel on YouTube it's a must for anyone interested in video breakdowns of self defense videos of all types. I suspect this video will be up on the channel soon. *ETA: See above

A few things I noticed from the video:

A) The secondary responders (second wave of the security team) could have been a little better with muzzle discipline. It's hard to tell from the angle, but it looked like several armed people muzzle swept other members of the team and the general congregation after the shooter was taken down.

B) It's critical to have a member(s) of the team designated for medical aid. Again, tough to tell from a 50 second video, but once the threat is stopped, it's vital to get someone to the victims to render medical aid and stop the bleeding. It might not have helped in this case depending on the shot load used, but in the case of a pistol or even rifle attack, some basic stop the bleeding type aid may help save someone's life.