Two killed, 1 critically injured in shooting at Texas church

[Hoosier Carry]

His gun handling and his willingness to act sucked and it cost him. .

-rvb

It could be that he was an excellent handler but was just in disbelief of what was actually happening. Something you can’t train or prepare yourself for. Is that fair to say?

The dog pile can happen I’m not scared!

 

[Ziggidy]

You enjoy looking at pics/video that show these types of evil?

Really?

 

[cbhausen]

It could be that he was an excellent handler but was just in disbelief of what was actually happening. Something you can’t train or prepare yourself for. Is that fair to say?

The dog pile can happen I’m not scared!

You can train and you can prepare yourself for it. You can see how much trouble the first man shot had getting his gun out and it cost him his life. I finally bought a shot timer a few days ago and seeing videos like this makes me understand why training with one is so important.

Do you really think just reading narratives of events like this is enough to go on?

 

[Hookeye]

The vid I saw shows the dude sitting up front near a doorway. Dressing in black with a HOODIE PULLED UP. This alone would have got my attention and I would have started to formulate a plan. I'm not sure if any of the security force noticed by thier slow reaction.

But but but, profiling is evil.

 

[churchmouse]

It could be that he was an excellent handler but was just in disbelief of what was actually happening. Something you can’t train or prepare yourself for. Is that fair to say?

The dog pile can happen I’m not scared!

No. No he was not and it was a proven fact as he is now deceased. Just punching a few holes in a target or ringing some steel does not make you a good "Handler".

Lets not go so far that this gets silly in here. Civil discussion is the key.

 

[Route 45]

As sloppy as the dead guy's draw was, I don't see a different outcome against a drawn shotgun at close range, regardless of draw speed. Action beats reaction.

 

[bwframe]

Not trying to pick on the poor guy that got shot first, but everything he did indicated he was going for his gun. He might well have drawn the first shot. If he'd have done things differerently, the shotgunner could have missed or hesitated.

The murderer shot from the hip and lost his grip between shots.

 

[Vigilant]

Not trying to pick on the poor guy that got shot first, but everything he did indicated he was going for his gun. He might well have drawn the first shot. If he'd have done things differerently, the shotgunner could have missed or hesitated.

The murderer shot from the hip and lost his grip between shots.

Amazing what you can glean from the actual video, as opposed to just reading or hearing the news read to you. Some among us find it revolting to actually want to see these things happen as opposed to being spoon fed selected details.

 

[churchmouse]

Amazing what you can glean from the actual video, as opposed to just reading or hearing the news read to you. Some among us find it revolting to actually want to see these things happen as opposed to being spoon fed selected details.

I just ran the Video multiple times to watch each player in this insanity. Much can be learned from this.

My heart goes out to every person that was in that room. To those who lost a loved one today and may the shooter rot in one of the 100 hells the Chinese believe in.

 

[Alamo]

As sloppy as the dead guy's draw was, I don't see a different outcome against a drawn shotgun at close range, regardless of draw speed. Action beats reaction.

The shotgun guy was focused on the closest parishioner to him. 2nd parishioner Standing up (which he may have had to do because of how he carried his gun) and the slow, obvious brought the shotgun guy’s attention to him. Unobtrusively drawing while seated would likely have given him an edge.

 

[JCSR]

Not trying to pick on the poor guy that got shot first, but everything he did indicated he was going for his gun. He might well have drawn the first shot. If he'd have done things differerently, the shotgunner could have missed or hesitated.

The murderer shot from the hip and lost his grip between shots.

This^^^^^.....and he made no effort to get off the X. The second I saw that shotgun my skinny azz would be moving!

 

[Cameramonkey]

I love that it looks like six people drew on the guy. It shows excellent discipline that only two fired, and no one else but the shooter apparently was hit by them.

Also...Quoth the sheriff: “Today evil walked boldly among us, let me remind you, good people raised up and stopped it before it got worse.”

https://crimeresearch.org/2019/12/texas-church-shooting-stopped-by-person-legally-carrying-a-gun/

probably helps that the one guy dropped him like a bad habit, so there wasnt anything to engage. I want to buy that man a beer. Every day for about 5 years. That was an incredible shot under pressure. AND at distance.

As sloppy as the dead guy's draw was, I don't see a different outcome against a drawn shotgun at close range, regardless of draw speed. Action beats reaction.

I do. Closest usher lunging at the shotgun. Could be dead either way. ESPECIALLY with a pistol grip, that usher going hands-on would have hand a much better chance controlling the shotgun by the barrel than the shooter. As John said, closing was a solid option. ESPECIALLY when attention is turned away to shoot the other guy. I'm not judging him by any means, btw.

This^^^^^.....and he made no effort to get off the X. The second I saw that shotgun my skinny azz would be moving!

Being where he was, there wasnt much room. Especially when dealing with a scatter gun. But yes, he should have been faster. (mentally reviewing my own carry techniques to make sure I wont have to fiddle with a long bulky cover garment to get to my gun.

 

[Hoosier Carry]

No. No he was not and it was a proven fact as he is now deceased. Just punching a few holes in a target or ringing some steel does not make you a good "Handler".

Lets not go so far that this gets silly in here. Civil discussion is the key.

How did you know he only punched holes in paper and shot some steel targets. How did you figure that out?

 

[jbombelli]

I would hope no one is turning a blind eye to this. I am trying to understand why after reading about a horrible act, would you feel better informed by watching the victims being shot? I see so many seem to want to actually watch it unfold. Why? You’ve read the article to find out what happened but now want to see it? Has nothing to about whether I can stomach it or not which is what someone else said.
So yeah when someone says “got anymore video of this”....

Seeing how it happens goes much, much further than reading about how it happens. You have to see it to really understand how fast it goes down and what actually happens. Otherwise you're just imagining it based on what you read, which is really no different than reading a novel and picturing a scene in your head.

And if somebody can't handle seeing it I seriously doubt they could handle being in it.

 

[T-DOGG]

How did you know he only punched holes in paper and shot some steel targets. How did you figure that out?

Experience. Until you put in the training hours with good instructors and train alongside others who know what they're doing, you won't understand it. And for the record, I am not trying to belittle you, but it is painfully obvious to people who train that mistakes were made at the Church. The first guy to get shot took FOREVER to draw his weapon from concealment. I mean ZERO disrespect to the man, but his obvious lack of training and urgency cost him his life today. Carrying a gun for self defense is NOT enough, you MUST practice/train and it becomes second nature to draw from concealment QUICKLY. This is just my observation from a short video.

 

[Vigilant]

How did you know he only punched holes in paper and shot some steel targets. How did you figure that out?

Dude, you’re on the wrong side of this. If you choose not to watch and learn that’s your fault. As far as arguing the points, if you didn’t see the video, how can you argue the flawed tactics? The deceased dropped the ball of initiative with a horribly slow draw and telegraphed movements, it’s right there on video(RIP). You can train toward a predetermined response, scenario based FoF being one of the best ways to actually put the training into action. The deceased knew what he had to do, his execution was flawed.

 

[KellyinAvon]

How did you know he only punched holes in paper and shot some steel targets. How did you figure that out?

Obvious troll is obvious.

 

[Vigilant]

How did you know he only punched holes in paper and shot some steel targets. How did you figure that out?

Well he wasn’t practicing his surreptitious drawstroke?

 

[KittySlayer]

Video is a great reminder that I need to practice my draw skills more often.

After bad guy is dead all six(?) armed parishioners focused and advanced on the bad guy. If trained as a group would it have been more appropriate for some of them to scan the venue looking for other threats?

 

[bwframe]

...Being where he was, there wasnt much room. Especially when dealing with a scatter gun...

Shotgun pattern is pretty small at 12-15 foot. Couple inches, maybe.

Any sideways movement would have made the shooter have to swing, shooting from the hip.