UAW On Strike

[hoosierdoc]

Didn't the UAW make concessions during the auto bailout? I think they did. If between now and the Trump tax restructuring, those workers weren't raised at least to the where they were, then I would think they have a fair argument if the GM is making record profits.

unions got massively paid off with that bailout. Absurdly so. Like, huge fraud and likely illegally.

https://www.heritage.org/testimony/...er-losses-came-subsidizing-union-compensation

• Legally, the UAW’s claims had the same status as those of other unsecured creditors, but the UAW recovered a much greater proportion of the debts thatGeneral Motors and Chrysler owed the union.
• Bankruptcy typically brings uncompetitive wages down to competitive levels. However, existing UAW members did not take pay cuts at General Motors.
• The restructured General Motors used taxpayer funds to “top up” the pensions of unionized retirees at Delphi, its bankrupt former parts subsidiary. New GM had no legal obligation to do so and nonunion employees did not receive similar benefits.
• These subsidies to UAW compensation cost taxpayers $30.0 billion—more than the government spends each year on foreign aid or on extended unemployment insurance benefits. They account for the entire net taxpayer losses in the bailout.

 

[Big Flounder]

First of all, than you for your service! If I was the one you were talking about regarding "lever pulling mindless idiots", please don't take that personally. You have to admit though, that on the whole, the UAW and other unions have typically supported Democrats. With that out of the way, I should explain my viewpoint on unions, especially the UAW.

Back in 1978 -1979 I worked for Detroit Diesel Allison here in Indy, as a co-op student at General Motors Institute. I worked in several areas, but the two that stand out were Time Study and Production Processes. I wasn't management or Union, but the Union employees viewed me (an 18 year old kid) as management). When I was in Time Study, carrying around a clipboard with 3 stopwatches on it, I was told that it was very important that I told the union employees that I was only doing what were called "floor to floor checks" to make sure they were within the standard times for their duty, and NOT affecting their standard times. Once I explained that, the operators seemed to relax a little bit, but when walking through the plant? Man... if looks could kill, I'd be a dead man.

In Production Processes, we had a very high failure rate for torque converters in test. We tracked it down to one guy on the transmission line. The torque converters had these little "retainer washers" (spring steel with slits in the inside diameter) on the studs of the torque converter. When this one person was installing them into the transmission, he was spinning them clockwise to get them to drop down onto the splined shaft of the transmission by grabbing the studs. This resulted in the retainers "unscrewing" themselves from the studs.

As a result, when the transmission was bolted up to the testing machine, these retainers would flatten themselves out and fail test. When I pointed out what he was doing and explained why it was a problem (all he had to do was spin it counter-clockwise to correct it), he shut down the whole assembly line and called his foreman over. Now, they had PALLETS of transmissions that had failed test and had to be reassembled, all due to what this guy was doing. Guess who the foreman stuck up for? That pretty much soured my view of unions, especially the UAW.

No offense taken and yes, most UAW members do vote Democrat. But you would be surprised how many die hard Republicans are in the plant as well. And yeah, one way to put assembly line workers on edge is to carry a stopwatch and a clipboard through their area. Lol! At Fort Wayne, if you see a guy doing that, he's looking to add work to your job. When I was a union rep for a couple of years, I had that talk with an engineer who's job it was to cut jobs where possible. We had a civil discussion and I understood he had a job to do. But he said the same thing you did...if looks could kill! Lol!

 

[churchmouse]

I'm going to be terribly outnumbered here on the forums, I know, but I have worked at the Fort Wayne plant for almost 20 years and am a proud UAW member. My coworkers are all hard working, good people and not "lever pulling mindless idiots" as suggested earlier by someone. I'm also a proud NRA member and Desert Storm veteran. There's things about the UAW I agree with and some I don't but this strike is one thing I do agree with. The temp employee situation is out of control and needs to be addressed. Just my opinion.

Well you are in a bubble my friend. No knock towards you but even in the Local I retired from (Fitters) it was rife with these very people. I worked in and around about every GM plant in this state at one time or another on the chillers contracted to outside techs. I ran into this mindset every where I went. Everywhere.

Again no knock towards you as yes I made a few friends in these places along the way and saw folks that actually did care. But they just seemed to be outnumbered. But I wish you well. Seriously. It was a deeply seeded us against them.

And yes that was me. You must not know the minions I was raised around. Tends to taint ones view of things. That union money raised us. No doubt about that.

The union I worked through was full of politics and just plain but the pay was stellar. We had to have the skills to match the pay. Not assembly jobs. In field techs servicing industrial and commercial equipment. HVAC-R. I do have a pension. But there are no benefits with it. Not like what the old man had from the UAW.

 

[Route 45]

https://www.foxbusiness.com/industrials/gm-strike-offer-uaw-workers

Here are the main areas of disagreement:

• GM is making big money, $8 billion last year alone, and workers want a bigger slice. The union wants annual pay raises to guard against an economic downturn, but the company wants to pay lump sums tied to earnings. Automakers don’t want higher fixed costs.
• The union also wants new products for the four factories slated to close. GM currently has too much U.S. factory capacity, especially to build slower-selling cars.
• The companies want to close the labor cost gap with workers at plants run by foreign automakers. GM pays $63 per hour in wages and benefits compared with $50 at the foreign-owned factories. GM's gap is the largest at $13 per hour, according to figures from the Center for Automotive Research.
• Union members have great health insurance plans and workers pay about 4 percent of the cost. Employees at large firms nationwide pay about 34 percent, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. Automakers would like to cut costs.

 

[Big Flounder]

Would appreciate your insight on understanding the Temp employee situation. My guess (and why I am asking you) is it is not a situation of GM trying to remain nimble in an ever changing market. Instead I wonder if GM is keeping employees classified as temps for months (years?) at a time to avoid paying them wages/benefits that equal to the union guy doing the same job? If GM hires on a temp as a regular employee are they able to lay them off or terminate them as the market changes? Are the temp employees members of the union? Is the union focused on grabbing bodies/members and if not why has it taken them so long to address the temp issue?

As always there are two (or 3 or 4...) sides to a story and it is good you are willing to share your knowledge with those of us sitting on the sidelines guessing, looking at our past experiences or the worst - relying on the media to tell us the truth.

Here's my opinion and input on the temp situation. Like I said, I'm a 20 year UAW member so take it for what's it worth. We have temporary employees that have been temps for 5 years or so. They stay because GM keeps dangling the proverbial carrot in front of them, but always just out of reach. Back during the bankruptcy the UAW agreed to the two tier wage system, so even if those temps are hired as new full time employees, they still won't make what those of us who were hired prior to 2007 or 2008 are. They also will not have the same retirement benefits that we do. But to take it even farther, GM just keeps temps as long as possible instead of hiring. They get 3 unpaid days off but have to take the days that are open on the vacation calendar after full timers apply for vacation. The get paid just a little more than half of what we make. They get health insurance, but from what temps have told me is it's not very good insurance (I don't know the details on their health insurance plan). I understand keeping costs low and I understand that GM is in the business to make money and keep shareholders happy. I'm all for the higher execs and management making more money than us. But we gave up a lot to help GM during the bankruptcy and haven't gotten those things back. Anymore contracts are not about gaining anything, but rather just trying to keep what we have.

 

[Big Flounder]

Thank you guys for having a civil conversation thus far. I almost didn't post thinking I'd just be tarred and feathered. On another gun related forum I didn't even dip a toe into the conversation as it was already getting out of hand. People on this forum seem top notch and I hope to share a cold beer or range time with ya, whether we have different opinions on this topic or not.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

No offense taken and yes, most UAW members do vote Democrat. But you would be surprised how many die hard Republicans are in the plant as well. And yeah, one way to put assembly line workers on edge is to carry a stopwatch and a clipboard through their area. Lol! At Fort Wayne, if you see a guy doing that, he's looking to add work to your job. When I was a union rep for a couple of years, I had that talk with an engineer who's job it was to cut jobs where possible. We had a civil discussion and I understood he had a job to do. But he said the same thing you did...if looks could kill! Lol!

When I was in Time Study, I learned real quick. I started looking for 1) Fully automated processes (with little or no operator intervention), and 2) Processes that would take 2, 3, 4 hours... So I'd start my first stopwatch when the process started, and then I knew approximately how long I had until I had to get back there. Sometimes the operator and I would just go hang out for awhile.

 

[churchmouse]

Thank you guys for having a civil conversation thus far. I almost didn't post thinking I'd just be tarred and feathered. On another gun related forum I didn't even dip a toe into the conversation as it was already getting out of hand. People on this forum seem top notch and I hope to share a cold beer or range time with ya, whether we have different opinions on this topic or not.

Thank you for diving into this thread. Your incite is valuable towards the outcome of this discussion.

 

[Route 45]

Anymore contracts are not about gaining anything, but rather just trying to keep what we have.

The foreign automakers have much lower labors costs at their US plants, and they build vehicles that are far superior to the unreliable junk coming out of UAW plants. (Ask me about my 2017 Silverado with transmission issues at 4500 miles and a service department that smirks and shrugs its shoulders) One more extended period of high gas prices will kill the truck/SUV party, and besides trucks and SUVs, US automakers ain't got nothing.

Ford doesn't even make cars anymore besides the Mustang. GM is bloated and makes laughably bad vehicles that force them to make cheesy commercials about how real people (not actors) love them for winning awards for "initial quality." (ie: lasting 90 days without failure) I don't know what malevolent demon Fiat Chrysler executives sold their souls to in order to keep that abomination of a company afloat.

Something's got to give.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Thank you guys for having a civil conversation thus far. I almost didn't post thinking I'd just be tarred and feathered. On another gun related forum I didn't even dip a toe into the conversation as it was already getting out of hand. People on this forum seem top notch and I hope to share a cold beer or range time with ya, whether we have different opinions on this topic or not.

Thank you for diving into this thread. Your incite is valuable towards the outcome of this discussion.

What CM said. Welcome!

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Thank you guys for having a civil conversation thus far. I almost didn't post thinking I'd just be tarred and feathered. On another gun related forum I didn't even dip a toe into the conversation as it was already getting out of hand. People on this forum seem top notch and I hope to share a cold beer or range time with ya, whether we have different opinions on this topic or not.

The foreign automakers have much lower labors costs at their US plants, and they build vehicles that are far superior to the unreliable junk coming out of UAW plants. (Ask me about my 2017 Silverado with transmission issues at 4500 miles and a service department that smirks and shrugs its shoulders) One more extended period of high gas prices will kill the truck/SUV party, and besides trucks and SUVs, US automakers ain't got nothing.

Ford doesn't even make cars anymore besides the Mustang. GM is bloated and makes laughably bad vehicles that force them to make cheesy commercials about how real people (not actors) love them for winning awards for "initial quality." (ie: lasting 90 days without failure) I don't know what malevolent demon Fiat Chrysler executives sold their souls to in order to keep that abomination of a company afloat.

Something's got to give.

Don't worry about Route 45. He's okay most of the time.

 

[Rookie]

We have temps in our plant. Our local does a pretty good job of making sure they don't stay as temps. Unfortunately, we're the minority. Next door uses and abuses them - 13-16 hour days seven days a week. Want a day off, don't come back. Meanwhile, they're making half what I make.

The two tier wage needs to be removed.

To answer Houghmade - there's two medical coverages. Tier one (me) has a $25 deductible for doctors and $100 for emergency room. Prescription is $6. I'm not sure what tier two is.

For me, I think tier two should top out to tier one in four years instead of eight. There should be a limit on temps and they should be treated the same as full time. Keep the raises, keep the lump sum, keep the profit sharing as is (as an FCA employee, we get a lot less). I'd like to see cost of living brought back, and leave my insurance alone please. However, I'm the minority, most think they're entitled to a lot more.

Like I said before, this strike is nothing but our corrupt union trying to take the spotlight off of them.

 

[Route 45]

Don't worry about Route 45. He's okay most of the time.

That was me being civil.

I know there are a lot of good people working in the US auto plants, but there are a lot of people making $80k a year doing unskilled labor that need to get some perspective. GM will inevitably be circling the drain once again if they don't get costs under control before gas prices inevitably go up, the economy cools and people realize that they don't necessarily need a F5500 Super High Country RamSierra Quad Turbo Diesel Dually Canyonero to pick up groceries at whatever store hasn't banned them from parading down the Little Debbie aisle with their slung AR pistol.

 

[Rookie]

Here's what annoys me - everyone thinking the union is the biggest cost. I wish I could find it again, but I read an article a few years back that showed that union wages are 3% of overall cost per vehicle. The biggest cost is mismanagement. For example, we asked to have an important part on hand just in case. The plant manager decided $50,000 was too much to spend on something that wasn't needed immediately. Two weeks later, he authorized the 50k plus $10,000 to have it expedited because we needed it. We have to get management approval to get a 5 cent bolt out of the tool crib - it takes about an hour to find someone. Meanwhile, that machine costs $300 per hour in lost production. Let's not forget that everything is being covered in diamond plate because it looks pretty.

But yeah, it's union members that are the biggest cost. Bull****.

 

[jamil]

Don't worry about Route 45. He's okay most of the time.

No. Not really. Really he’s always like that.

 

[Route 45]

No. Not really. Really he’s always like that.

You're still butthurt that the council didn't grant you the rank of master.

 

[Bosshoss]

That was me being civil.

I know there are a lot of good people working in the US auto plants, but there are a lot of people making $80k a year doing unskilled labor that need to get some perspective. GM will inevitably be circling the drain once again if they don't get costs under control before gas prices inevitably go up, the economy cools and people realize that they don't necessarily need a F5500 Super High Country RamSierra Quad Turbo Diesel Dually Canyonero to pick up groceries at whatever store hasn't banned them from parading down the Little Debbie aisle with their slung AR pistol.

I retired from GM and someone unskilled making 80 K a year is working a LOT of overtime.
You only get to work overtime if you are asked to and the company asks you to work overtime not the union.

We had state of the company meetings every quarter at work. They always complained about our overtime budget getting out of hand.
I always raised my hand and said "quit asking us to work the overtime if you want to reduce the overtime budget"

Many of my co workers and myself were republicans. Probably about the same breakdown as the rest of the area we lived in.

 

[Rookie]

Got another one that just happened today...

On Friday, management knew that we were going to run out of a component necessary to run production. They also knew that 7:30 pm today was the soonest they would get more. So, they decided to run production on Saturday (time and a half) and Sunday (double time) so we would be out of parts on Monday (straight time).

Pure genius that can only come from a college educated idiot who has no clue how to run a plant.

Btw, I offered to go home four hours early since so many people were standing around with nothing to do. "Sorry, nobody is leaving today".

 

[Rookie]

That was me being civil.

I know there are a lot of good people working in the US auto plants, but there are a lot of people making $80k a year doing unskilled labor that need to get some perspective. GM will inevitably be circling the drain once again if they don't get costs under control before gas prices inevitably go up, the economy cools and people realize that they don't necessarily need a F5500 Super High Country RamSierra Quad Turbo Diesel Dually Canyonero to pick up groceries at whatever store hasn't banned them from parading down the Little Debbie aisle with their slung AR pistol.

Let's talk about out of control costs...

Every so often, our machine platens need to be rebuilt. This process involves machining the platen, welding the platen with nickel rod, and machining it to true it up. It typically costs $250,000 and takes an outside vendor about a week. Our plant manager found a new vendor that charged half the price and only took three days. Everyone told him it was a bad idea, but he knew better. Sure enough, this vendor had it done in three days because they bought in this fancy mig welder that could run welds non stop instead of stick welding with nickel rod. Of course, they welded mild steel onto the platen - can anyone guess what 3500 tons of pressure does to mild steel? After two weeks of trying to run with ruined platens, the original company was brought in. They had to machine further than normal, weld twice as much, and machine it again at a cost of over $500,000. It took them four weeks. So, six weeks of lost production and $625,000 in costs instead of two weeks at $250,000.

Yup, we're the problem.

 

[indyjs]

Unions are for Unions and Management is for Management. Nobody cares about the workers. It is an illusion offered to placate . My experience of 30 years in a Union