UAW On Strike

[jamil]

You're still butthurt that the council didn't grant you the rank of master.

Hey. I do all the dark dirty work and those *******s sit around and pontificate on their enlightenment. And they won’t make me a master?

 

[jamil]

Let's talk about out of control costs...

Every so often, our machine platens need to be rebuilt. This process involves machining the platen, welding the platen with nickel rod, and machining it to true it up. It typically costs $250,000 and takes an outside vendor about a week. Our plant manager found a new vendor that charged half the price and only took three days. Everyone told him it was a bad idea, but he knew better. Sure enough, this vendor had it done in three days because they bought in this fancy mig welder that could run welds non stop instead of stick welding with nickel rod. Of course, they welded mild steel onto the platen - can anyone guess what 3500 tons of pressure does to mild steel? After two weeks of trying to run with ruined platens, the original company was brought in. They had to machine further than normal, weld twice as much, and machine it again at a cost of over $500,000. It took them four weeks. So, six weeks of lost production and $625,000 in costs instead of two weeks at $250,000.

Yup, we're the problem.

Well. You’re *a* problem. Not *the* problem.

 

[Hookeye]

Majority of the people suck.....doesnt matter if they have a union or not.

 

[Dean C.]

It is my understanding these temp workers seem to be a major issue the UAW wants to tackle, my question would be when or why did the UAW allow temp workers to perform union jobs??

My experience with unions is limited to USW and I know they would not allow temp workers in doing union jobs. (not a union member here , professional staff)

The follow up question to the original question would be if they UAW did allow the temp workers, why did they not build a structured path for these workers to become fully vested union members in the contract?

 

[KokomoDave]

Well...I just happen to be one of thhose teat sucking worthless union guys who actually know what is at stake and I am PROUD to have made a decent living as a skilled tradesman the last 29 years in Kokomo. If you'd like to hear the truth of what is going on on the salary side v.s. the hourly side, I could try to enlighten you but most of you have your own opinions and quasi-backyard politics figured out for you so I won't bother. I can't sway those of you they don't want to hear the truth or are butt hurt you can't get one of those shiftless union jobs. It's very much trying to sway gun-grabbing moms need action types to freedom loving staunch 2A supporters. Your mind is pre-determined no matter the truth.

 

[KokomoDave]

Dean, the union didn't allow temps but did agree to allow them to be vested into the system of a 6 month temp work status. There are "temps" that have been doing the same job as a regular UAW worker for 6 years. No same tier wage scale, reduced health care benefits, 3 days vacation, etc. They could quit but they need a job too. The union is only allowed to write a grievance. That's it because in the end it's this:
It's their company and they are allowed to run it as they seem fit. The union can disagree and write a grievance. That's it. Indiana is a right-to-work state and we(UAW) try to work within the parameters of our mutually agreed upon contracts with GM but in the end: It's their company and they are allowed to run as they deem fit. (Sorry no purple here)

 

[KokomoDave]

Majority of the people suck.....doesnt matter if they have a union or not.

Yes, people suck. That's why I have a GSD and a malinois.

 

[Big Flounder]

It is my understanding these temp workers seem to be a major issue the UAW wants to tackle, my question would be when or why did the UAW allow temp workers to perform union jobs??

My experience with unions is limited to USW and I know they would not allow temp workers in doing union jobs. (not a union member here , professional staff)

The follow up question to the original question would be if they UAW did allow the temp workers, why did they not build a structured path for these workers to become fully vested union members in the contract?

Dean, the temp situation started changing with the bankruptcy. Prior to that, if you worked at the plant for 90 days as a temp, you were made full time by contract. Almost all of our "temps" at that time were hired strictly for the summer to help cover vacations and they were mostly college kids just needing a job for the summer. Then during the bankruptcy the UAW agreed to allow more temps in and dropped the 90 day thing, to help the company survive. It just never got changed back to the way it was and GM keeps wanting more and more temporary workers rather than hire full time. They save a ton of money with the temps. Oh, and the temps are UAW. They pay dues just like the rest of us. Dues are based on a percentage of your hourly rate. I think I mentioned it earlier but in my opinion the temp situation is a country wide problem and a tool that cooperate America is using to reap bigger profits. It hurts no one but the middle class. The small company my wife works at (non union plant) here in Huntington does the same thing...hire temps and keep them temps for years. Unemployment rates might go up and down, but the number of jobs with benefits and pensions has been on a steady decline for decades unfortunately.

 

[Big Flounder]

Sorry KokomoDave, seems we were posting at the same time. And yes, people suck. I think that's one thing we can all agree on. Lol

 

[KokomoDave]

Then dig into the union coffers, buy some land and machinery, and start your own factory and build a line of cars. Just think of all the people lining up to buy the new UAW line of automobiles. Or as someone else mentioned, buy more stock in GM.



I watched the union destroy the Fort Wayne economy for a decade or more as they made it impossible for International Harvester to carry on production.

And for those that do not believe in trickle down economics, watch how quickly non-GM workers are impacted by this strike. Be it delivery guys hauling just in time inventory, subcontractors, local eateries, etc.

Was a strike really necessary or could production and work continued during negotiations and then make any wages, benefits, etc. retroactive once an agreement was reached. Maybe the union leaders needed some excitement in their life.

Yep. Ford and FCA (parent company of Chrysler) opted to let their current contract go on forever but high profit GM told the union: This what we are offering. Take it or go on-strike. No negotiations, no give and take no anything while they have global sales out the ying-yang (that's a$$ for you non-Korean hillbilly types). I used to be salary at my old job at FW truck and bus so I know the difference between salary v.s. hourly.
When a company can rough shod over their employees, sometimrs it takes a strike to get them to negotiate or take it to arbitration. The company doesn't care unless you kick em where it counts, in the pocketbook. Might seem unfair to tjose that don't work for GM but it's the truth.
They have a great and powerful Oz but don't look behind the curtain as you will just find some liberal college educated dolt trying to run a company. Yes, I have a college education too but I have a wee bit of common sense.

 

[KokomoDave]

Well said Big Flounder!

 

[Dean C.]

Dean, the union didn't allow temps but did agree to allow them to be vested into the system of a 6 month temp work status. There are "temps" that have been doing the same job as a regular UAW worker for 6 years. No same tier wage scale, reduced health care benefits, 3 days vacation, etc. They could quit but they need a job too. The union is only allowed to write a grievance. That's it because in the end it's this:
It's their company and they are allowed to run it as they seem fit. The union can disagree and write a grievance. That's it. Indiana is a right-to-work state and we(UAW) try to work within the parameters of our mutually agreed upon contracts with GM but in the end: It's their company and they are allowed to run as they deem fit. (Sorry no purple here)

Dean, the temp situation started changing with the bankruptcy. Prior to that, if you worked at the plant for 90 days as a temp, you were made full time by contract. Almost all of our "temps" at that time were hired strictly for the summer to help cover vacations and they were mostly college kids just needing a job for the summer. Then during the bankruptcy the UAW agreed to allow more temps in and dropped the 90 day thing, to help the company survive. It just never got changed back to the way it was and GM keeps wanting more and more temporary workers rather than hire full time. They save a ton of money with the temps. Oh, and the temps are UAW. They pay dues just like the rest of us. Dues are based on a percentage of your hourly rate. I think I mentioned it earlier but in my opinion the temp situation is a country wide problem and a tool that cooperate America is using to reap bigger profits. It hurts no one but the middle class. The small company my wife works at (non union plant) here in Huntington does the same thing...hire temps and keep them temps for years. Unemployment rates might go up and down, but the number of jobs with benefits and pensions has been on a steady decline for decades unfortunately.

Thanks for the explanation gentlemen! Sounds like gun control , with the temp situation being the Unions "slippery slope" , since the temps are paying UAW dues I think it's a good thing the union seems to be going to bat for them.

I might be salaried , but I know the fact where I work being unionized I make more than I would anyplace else. I make at least 15k more a year than anyone I graduated with currently and have even gotten significant raises in just my first year out of college. Hopefully this issue gets resolved quickly so you guys can get back to work and be compensated appropriately.

The whole temp situation just does not seem right to me honestly (amongst other things I am sure)

 

[churchmouse]

Well...I just happen to be one of thhose teat sucking worthless union guys who actually know what is at stake and I am PROUD to have made a decent living as a skilled tradesman the last 29 years in Kokomo. If you'd like to hear the truth of what is going on on the salary side v.s. the hourly side, I could try to enlighten you but most of you have your own opinions and quasi-backyard politics figured out for you so I won't bother. I can't sway those of you they don't want to hear the truth or are butt hurt you can't get one of those shiftless union jobs. It's very much trying to sway gun-grabbing moms need action types to freedom loving staunch 2A supporters. Your mind is pre-determined no matter the truth.

Interesting opinion of whats been said. It would appear you have been offended by some of the posts and I might have been one of them.
I could have had any number of those coveted union spots including skilled trades. Tried it out and did not care for it. It takes a specific type of individual to do that work and i am glade folks like you are willing. I just did not fit into that mold.

You know as well as I do the percentage of people that get by with the minimum amount possible in those settings yet demand more. Not everyone but man there are a crap load of them. 1st hand knowledge and i also dealt with the management side. There are as many morons there as well. I have also met and maintain contact with several pretty stellar people. In truth we can say this about a lot of things in this world outside of the Unions. They just tend to be front line at times like these.

I am retired Union. Local 440. I did not care 2 cents for management at the hall. They were Pompous asses for the most part. But I did like the money. In the end that is exactly why we all got up and spent the lions share of our days out in the big scary. It was the money. benefits as well and no argument that the union side had the marks on both.

My issues with the mind set comes from being around and inside of it near my whole life. I am sure that what I saw/experienced was no illusion.

 

[Big Flounder]

In truth we can say this about a lot of things in this world outside of the Unions.

Bingo. I always tell people that it takes all kinds of folks to build trucks. Fort Wayne Assembly employs about 4,000 people. That's bigger than the town I grew up in. When you have a population of folks that is the size of a small town, you're going to have a few @holes, alcoholics, drug addicts, thieves, hillbillies, snobs, past sex offenders, felons, etc. I've seen them all but the vast majority of the people I work with are good, hard working Americans that have become like family to me. There are people at the plant I would take a bullet for. Of course, there is a couple that I would often like to shove into traffic too. Lol!

 

[churchmouse]

Bingo. I always tell people that it takes all kinds of folks to build trucks. Fort Wayne Assembly employs about 4,000 people. That's bigger than the town I grew up in. When you have a population of folks that is the size of a small town, you're going to have a few @holes, alcoholics, drug addicts, thieves, hillbillies, snobs, past sex offenders, felons, etc. I've seen them all but the vast majority of the people I work with are good, hard working Americans that have become like family to me. There are people at the plant I would take a bullet for. Of course, there is a couple that I would often like to shove into traffic too. Lol!

I am sure that over the time you have put in that you have developed some solid friendships. I really hate to come off so negative about that situation. When I was scheduled to do work at a facility I was the enemy.Union rep would make sure that I knew he/they did not like my taking work from the skilled guys. Thing is the skilled guys did not have my particular skill sets. Management thought sending a handful of them to get the certification to buy refrigerant made them HVAC-R techs. Well no it just let them jump through the EPA hoops to "Buy" refrigerant.
A lot of the older facility's had large chillers for the production lines and a lot of smaller chillers for the CNC's. The big units had not been cared for and ran hard. They were leaking refrigerant so badly that the purchase of hundreds of pounds of gas "RED" (yup) flagged them and the EPA threatened to shut them down if repairs were not made. Hence calling in the hired gun.

OK I go and look it over. The union guy rails on me for half an hour and sticks an electrician with me so I can train him. **** that ****. Get the training on your own. I am here to do XYZ work and move on to the next job in a timely fashion. So they demand the sparky does all the wrench turning while I watch. Again **** that ****. I have to give management a solid bid on this work. So I put my bid together and sit in the big room up front with the suits. The accept my deal and I tool up. I report and they stick some woman apprentice with me to do the work. WTF people i do not have time for this ****. I get all my stuff in to the 400 ton chiller and start getting set up and have any number of butt heads interfering with me if i pick up a wrench. The chick is no where to be found. Who knows where she has gone and i am dead in the water for near a whole day. Come time to pack up and head home here she comes ready to put in some OT to get rolling. Her and the union guy said they see a lot of OT in this project. Again **** a lot of this ****.

It ended up with a summit meeting that the people were to help me and watch. I got the work done and it ran as designed.

That was just one of many such encounters inside those buildings. I loved the work and yes some people were pretty decent. But most just sucked the life out of the place. OT was the goal. Always. I was not in line for that. It made a lot of people mad but hey, Screw them.

 

[jamil]

Dean, the union didn't allow temps but did agree to allow them to be vested into the system of a 6 month temp work status. There are "temps" that have been doing the same job as a regular UAW worker for 6 years. No same tier wage scale, reduced health care benefits, 3 days vacation, etc. They could quit but they need a job too. The union is only allowed to write a grievance. That's it because in the end it's this:
It's their company and they are allowed to run it as they seem fit. The union can disagree and write a grievance. That's it. Indiana is a right-to-work state and we(UAW) try to work within the parameters of our mutually agreed upon contracts with GM but in the end: It's their company and they are allowed to run as they deem fit. (Sorry no purple here)

No purple required.

 

[Indy317]

I'm going to be terribly outnumbered here on the forums, I know, but I have worked at the Fort Wayne plant for almost 20 years and am a proud UAW member. My coworkers are all hard working, good people and not "lever pulling mindless idiots" as suggested earlier by someone. I'm also a proud NRA member and Desert Storm veteran. There's things about the UAW I agree with and some I don't but this strike is one thing I do agree with. The temp employee situation is out of control and needs to be addressed. Just my opinion.

I never understand why so many people want to throw the baseline workers under the bus, while the big wigs get to rake in millions year after year. I mean seriously, the top five people alone made almost $20,000,000 in pay alone. Who knows what kind of monetary and stock option bonuses they got on top of that. I mean does it really take $7M a year to live upper class in the Detroit metro area? I mean surely a $500K home in Detroit area would be similar to a $500K home in Carmel, meaning very nice, good schools, etc.. I know these folks pay a ton in taxes, but if someone is making $2M a year in pay, what is their take home pay? And when is enough enough?

I have a lot of union workers in my family, some are/were UAW. I've seen and heard the good and the bad. The thing is, if we strive to pay as many workers in this country the lowest possible wage with minimal benefits, that is going to financially destroy this country. I never understood why those at the top never get criticized as harshly as the line workers.

Big Flounder, I have relatives that work for Honda in Greensburg. They had all their mandatory OT cut at the start of the year, not long after they were given their mandatory OT days from what I understand. They also use a temp agency, but from what I understand, so long as one shows up on time, does well, it is fairly easy to get hired full-time as a Honda employee. They both got hired full-time Honda within a short while, even being fifty years old. I guess the younger folks don't care too much for the work, or can't seem to show up on time, and thus leave or get fired fairly often.

Seems auto sales haven't been what they used to be, so no need to make thousands of additional cars on the weekend. I have another relative who works at Chrysler and they are also talking about reduced demand. I think the era of getting people to take out six to eight year long car loans is coming back to bite the industry. People are upside down on their loan so they have no choice but to hold the car till the loan ends.

 

[jamil]

Interesting opinion of whats been said. It would appear you have been offended by some of the posts and I might have been one of them.
I could have had any number of those coveted union spots including skilled trades. Tried it out and did not care for it. It takes a specific type of individual to do that work and i am glade folks like you are willing. I just did not fit into that mold.

You know as well as I do the percentage of people that get by with the minimum amount possible in those settings yet demand more. Not everyone but man there are a crap load of them. 1st hand knowledge and i also dealt with the management side. There are as many morons there as well. I have also met and maintain contact with several pretty stellar people. In truth we can say this about a lot of things in this world outside of the Unions. They just tend to be front line at times like these.

I am retired Union. Local 440. I did not care 2 cents for management at the hall. They were Pompous asses for the most part. But I did like the money. In the end that is exactly why we all got up and spent the lions share of our days out in the big scary. It was the money. benefits as well and no argument that the union side had the marks on both.

My issues with the mind set comes from being around and inside of it near my whole life. I am sure that what I saw/experienced was no illusion.

When I was young I worked in a union factory as a support engineer for several years. The people I worked with were mostly good. But there were more than a few people who's primary goal was to put in the hours to get a paycheck. Notice I did not say put in the work. And I've known some people in the Salaried ranks that were the same. In terms of quality of workers, I don't think the portion of union/hourly workers is higher than salaried. So indeed, some people suck.

 

[Big Flounder]

I mean seriously, the top five people alone made almost $20,000,000 in pay alone. Who knows what kind of monetary and stock option bonuses they got on top of that.

The following is from an article I read earlier this morning. Another article said Mrs. Barra's 2018 bonus alone was just over $811,000. Based on my annual salary without overtime, that would take me 13 years to make what she did just in one year's bonus. Yet us UAW workers are supposedly over paid. I'm all for the upper execs making good money, they run the company. But sometimes it's a bit too much. And I agree, I never understand why so many people would be against anyone in the middle class having a decent income, benefits, pension, etc. I'm blessed to have the job I have. I won't argue that and I haven't forgotten it since the day I hired in. I'm willing to fight to keep those benefits.

[FONT=&amp]"Barra’s total compensation package was valued at $21.87 million, slightly below the $21.96 million she received in 2017. Barra, GM’s chairman and chief executive, was paid $22.58 million in 2016. GM said Barra’s pay was 281 times that of the median company employee. [/FONT][FONT=&amp]Barra’s pay package included a salary of $2.1 million, unchanged from 2017; stock awards worth almost $11.1 million; options worth more than $3.4 million and a performance award worth almost $4.5 million, according to the proxy. [/FONT][FONT=&amp]Barra is GM’s highest paid executive. Chief Financial Officer Dhivya Suryadevara received slightly more than $5.5 million in total compensation, and Chuck Stevens, who she replaced last September, received just under $7 million, according to the proxy. [/FONT][FONT=&amp]Former President Dan Ammann, who now heads GM’s Cruise automation unit, received just under $9 million, while Mark Reuss, who replaced Ammann as president, received almost $7.4 million, according to the proxy."[/FONT]​

 

[Indy317]

I know there are a lot of good people working in the US auto plants, but there are a lot of people making $80k a year doing unskilled labor that need to get some perspective.

And there are a lot of CEOs, CFOs, etc. who don't need to make seven figures a year. Even in the most costly of cities here in the US, seven figures is still rich. However, that class of people believe they are entilted to that amount of money because they need a vacation to Bora-Bora every year, the Montana or Wyoming million dollar vacation home, some beach vacation home, and of course their million dollar estate where ever they work. All the while, they do whatever they can to get the quarterly results good so the company stock rises so their stock options have more value.

I agree that $80K/year (40 hours/week, five days a week) might not be the correct pay for "unskilled" labor, but what is the correct pay then? What is "unskilled?" If Burger King is unskilled, then are we saying auto workers should be making the same as those working Burger King?

I think I mentioned it earlier but in my opinion the temp situation is a country wide problem and a tool that cooperate America is using to reap bigger profits. It hurts no one but the middle class. ... Unemployment rates might go up and down, but the number of jobs with benefits and pensions has been on a steady decline for decades unfortunately.

I don't understand why those in power in these companies want to race us as quick as possible to a massive welfare state. I've heard from friends who traveled to once thriving countries where such policies, either through greedy business or government, basically took the entire country down from first world, to second world, to maybe even third world. Their friends/family living in these places have what appears to be a first class lifestyle, but crime is out-of-control so you have to spend money to live in a fortress. You have to be very careful about where you go. We already have some areas like that in our major cities, but Wall Street seems hell bent to send the entire country into a second or third world status. Are these people really that OK with having to send their kids to school in armor plated vehicles? That when they have to have two garages/gates when coming and going from their homes that they have to surround by 6'+ tall walls?