Uniformed officer asked to leave 'gun-free'

[Frank_N_Stein]

Why would I intervene in a bar fight if I wasn't on duty? If I was at the bar as a patron, how much grief do you realize I'd get if I intervened after having consumed alcoholic beverages?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Generally speaking, again yes.. And the officer may want to rethink their career decisions.

Why? If they truly are same-same, why should the officer rethink their career?

I'll cut to the chase. Because they aren't doing what society, OR YOU, think they should be doing as an LEO. Intervening. The expectations are different, and the other side of the coin is people react to LEOs differently. Sometimes to our benefit, sometimes to our detriment.

A bar fight? That's going to depend on a lot of factors. If I've had a drink, I'm by policy not allowed to interfere unless my failure to do so is likely to result in death or serious bodily injury. Plus you've got to consider the escalation of someone who's armed entering a fist fight. Now, it one dude is stabbing the other or something, that's different. Two drunks throwing haymakers, though? No.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Why would I intervene in a bar fight if I wasn't on duty? If I was at the bar as a patron, how much grief do you realize I'd get if I intervened after having consumed alcoholic beverages?

Well, two officers do as you probably know. They just had their merit board hearing after being fired for that scenario.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Well, two officers do as you probably know. They just had their merit board hearing after being fired for that scenario.

Exactly. And it is my understanding that neither of them are coworkers any more.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Exactly. And it is my understanding that neither of them are coworkers any more.

I hadn't heard the results. I didn't know NS that well, but MR was someone I knew and liked. I was hoping he'd get his job back but wasn't real optimistic.

 

[Trigger Time]

I don't ever want to take good guys guns away. I just always want all the good guys to be able to carry.
It's not the cops fault that elected officials make them into a elite class of citizen and not subject to the laws of us average men and women. Like the state legislators voting to allow themselves and staff to carry in the statehouse but us regular folk that elect and pay them can't. It's BS. It's wrong.
We should be getting on the politicians not the cops.

The only thing that I don't like is seeing uniformed cops hired by private companies or individuals for special events. I believe it'sbasicly buying off or being able to influence public servants. The right phrase escapes me but I think my point is clear. Cops never agree with that point of view and why would they when they are pulling in lots of money. Also im not implying they are crooked. But they are serving that companies interest. My point isn't to take away someone's ability to make extra scratch at a second job, just wear a security uniform instead of a government uniform

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Why would I intervene in a bar fight if I wasn't on duty? If I was at the bar as a patron, how much grief do you realize I'd get if I intervened after having consumed alcoholic beverages?

It doesn't appear to be "mutual combat" and the guy getting their ass handed to them doesn't appear to be the one at fault? Also I didn't say anything about the officer drinking, heck I mentioned in my original comment that the LEO said if their family was with them they probably wouldn't intervene off duty even if SBI was likely. I've had my family at a restaurant/bars before, it wouldn't surprise me if a fight broke out.

Why? If they truly are same-same, why should the officer rethink their career?

I'll cut to the chase. Because they aren't doing what society, OR YOU, think they should be doing as an LEO. Intervening. The expectations are different, and the other side of the coin is people react to LEOs differently. Sometimes to our benefit, sometimes to our detriment.

A bar fight? That's going to depend on a lot of factors. If I've had a drink, I'm by policy not allowed to interfere unless my failure to do so is likely to result in death or serious bodily injury. Plus you've got to consider the escalation of someone who's armed entering a fist fight. Now, it one dude is stabbing the other or something, that's different. Two drunks throwing haymakers, though? No.

I said the officer may wish to rethink their career, because for most officers getting intervening is part of their job description and depending on dept may happen on a daily or more often (or much less often) basis. If it isn't something they are willing to do then it's probably not the career for them. For an officer who is hired in as a paper pusher (yes I know of one that was) and is never going to be on the streets or patrol, might be different.

Someone armed entering a fist fight? Isn't that what on duty officers do frequently and are trained for? No double standard, just acknowledging the training and skills of most officers.

I hadn't heard the results. I didn't know NS that well, but MR was someone I knew and liked. I was hoping he'd get his job back but wasn't real optimistic.

That sucks. If they weren't at fault/started it, they have my honest sympathy.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

We can "what if" until everyone is blue in the face, and you will never be satisfied with the answer.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

We can "what if" until everyone is blue in the face, and you will never be satisfied with the answer.

Frank, yes we can "what if" until everyone is blue in the face. I think that you think I'm bashing LEOs, I'm not. You even stated above that "Why would I intervene in a bar fight if I wasn't on duty?" And yes I have an idea of how much crap you could get into if you did so after drinking. What I said was in a response to the statement that some depts expect/require their officers to respond to a crime off duty. I'm going to guess that the average bar fight violates at least one law, possibly a few.

But honest question, and I think I know the answer to it. If you don't feel like responding that is fine. If you were at a bar off duty and had an adult beverage or a few, and something happened that you believed was going to result in an innocent person being seriously injured or killed, would the crap you could catch stop you from doing something to stop it? I think the answer for you and most officers is no. Now if you were at a bar with some buddies shooting pool, playing darts, whatever and drinking or not, and a couple of obnoxious drunk *******s got into a fight. The answer may or may not be different. Which is pretty much what I said I remembered reading. Off duty, no immediate danger to life/health, be a good witness and call 911.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Someone armed entering a fist fight? Isn't that what on duty officers do frequently and are trained for? No double standard, just acknowledging the training and skills of most officers.

In uniform, with a baton, OC, Taser, radio, and the presence of the uniform =/= plain clothes with no less lethal option. This remains a side show, though, as the discussion of carrying a gun and society's view is centered around a deadly force situation. And yes, intervening is part of the job description, which is the point I've made that you seem to both dispute and accept.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

In uniform, with a baton, OC, Taser, radio, and the presence of the uniform =/= plain clothes with no less lethal option. This remains a side show, though, as the discussion of carrying a gun and society's view is centered around a deadly force situation. And yes, intervening is part of the job description, which is the point I've made that you seem to both dispute and accept.

There was a decent amount of tongue in cheek in that part of my comment. And yes it's a bit of a side show. But I don't dispute that it's part of the job description, just that an officer is always on the job. What they may have to/choose to intervene in while on duty, may not be the same as while off. You and Frank seem to agree with that, at least that's how it seems to me.

 

[Lex Concord]

Just don’t take your gun in, they no likey guns! If you are seen carrying a firearm in the Avon TR, you will be asked to leave. Watched a whole table be escorted from the building for OC a couple of years back.

I've eaten there with a gun; I had no idea they were anti -- the food sucked, by the way... I had a gift card to burn; I definitely won't be back.

Same with Carraba's (same parent company as Outback). I had no idea they didn't like guns in their restaurants; they had no idea I had a gun... all was well. I will never be back.

I "conceal" a full-size auto (.45) OWB... other sheepdogs occasionally notice me printing; sheeple never do.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I've eaten there with a gun; I had no idea they were anti -- the food sucked, by the way... I had a gift card to burn; I definitely won't be back.

Same with Carraba's (same parent company as Outback). I had no idea they didn't like guns in their restaurants; they had no idea I had a gun... all was well. I will never be back.

I "conceal" a full-size auto (.45) OWB... other sheepdogs occasionally notice me printing; sheeple never do.

I CC there whenever I can. Especially during business travel since the boss is paying and my family doesnt appreciate it. (them and Hooters are often on my expense reports ) I think its one of the best steaks out there for the money.

But then again maybe its their uncanny ability to actually deliver a medium rare steak; most other chains cant. (at least not reliably) Not sure how they do it, but their method seems to favor steaks on the bloody side.

And I HAVE had better more awesome steaks, but thats typically places like Fogo which are 2-3x the cost.

And the funny thing, is for a company who's corporate office is anti gun they are slacking and apparently dont push it very hard. The Hilliard road location in Columbus, OH isnt placarded as a GFZ. In OH if they put up the sign, they have force of law behind it. Yet that franchisee chooses not to. Interesting.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Back somewhat on topic, I ate the one in Merrillville in early Jan, pistol was covered when I went in but uncovered when I took my jacket off. Nothing was said. It was visible for the walk to the bathroom and back, and there were no signs posted. Food was meh.

 

[Lex Concord]

I CC there whenever I can. Especially during business travel since the boss is paying and my family doesnt appreciate it. (them and Hooters are often on my expense reports ) I think its one of the best steaks out there for the money.

But then again maybe its their uncanny ability to actually deliver a medium rare steak; most other chains cant. (at least not reliably) Not sure how they do it, but their method seems to favor steaks on the bloody side.

And I HAVE had better more awesome steaks, but thats typically places like Fogo which are 2-3x the cost.

And the funny thing, is for a company who's corporate office is anti gun they are slacking and apparently dont push it very hard. The Hilliard road location in Columbus, OH isnt placarded as a GFZ. In OH if they put up the sign, they have force of law behind it. Yet that franchisee chooses not to. Interesting.

It was a small gift card; I had a burger.

I'm also spoiled when it comes to beef, having converted to grass-fed some time ago.

Good to know that some of their stores thumb their noses at the idiocy.