WATCH: 11 Indiana Cops Detain Entire Bar to Conduct Background Checks on Patrons

[Gaffer]

I KNOW, by name, who my doctor, my dentist, my teacher are.... mainly because of the frequency of contact. They tend to be constants over years. Most people, don't have a relationship with a lawyer in the same way. And if by chance they do, then the person probably has little bit of scratch, or make frequent bad decisions.

For people who have worked in LE, people saying they're going to call their lawyer, is right up there with "do you know who I am," and "I know the mayor."

Yeah, I actually knew what you meant. I laugh at it too at times. I just wanted to get into, yet another, "nailed in" thread.

 

[Expat]

We used to have a large group that would always show up in these threads and make comments about "holster sniffers". Have all of them been banned, or just otherwise occupied these days.

 

[halfmileharry]

I’ll be waiting on the the rest of the story.

I'm with VUPDblue on this one.
There's possibly a lot of story left out of this.

 

[churchmouse]

If true, somebody needs fired.

Yes.

 

[2A_Tom]

I’ll be waiting on the the rest of the story.

I'm with VUPDblue on this one.
There's possibly a lot of story left out of this.

You probably won't get one, but I spoke to several officers that were there. This happened while I was working, but I wasn't part of it. I also have not, nor will I, watch the video.

I know what happened and a lot of it is irrelevant. I will say that it was a raid by excise and Michigan City PD was there to assist. The part of the situation that was, in my opinion, a gross violation of the rights of the bar patrons was due to a single supervisor who wanted every single patron of the bar identified and run for warrants. I have no idea why he made the decision to do that or why he thought that the bar patrons would be required to provide identification, but the officers that actually ran the IDs were fairly new and likely did not feel they were in a position to refuse.

There really isn't much more to the story, but it's nice to see my city in the news.

Well the answer is in. So...

NO! I will not show you my ID. This is America, not the USSR or Nazi Germany.

Please tell me what your Reasonable Articulable Suspicion is. No, then I refuse to give you my ID.

Am I being detained?

Am I under arrest?

Do you have a warrant?

I am calling Guy Relford. Do you want his number?

 

[Hop]

I heard they were looking for illegally modified barcodes on Kroger Club cards.

 

[Trigger Time]

I KNOW, by name, who my doctor, my dentist, my teacher are.... mainly because of the frequency of contact. They tend to be constants over years. Most people, don't have a relationship with a lawyer in the same way. And if by chance they do, then the person probably has little bit of scratch, or make frequent bad decisions.

For people who have worked in LE, people saying they're going to call their lawyer, is right up there with "do you know who I am," and "I know the mayor."

I laugh at cops who laugh at people who ask to call their lawyer.
If they dont allow me to call my lawyer now on the scene fine. Put the cuffs on me if you must and ill call him from the jail. I have time too.
Im also not intimidated by typical cop tricks or intimidation tactics. And I have enough respect for you Kut to know that you'll admit they do take place frequently in hopes that citizens who are not aware of their rights or are easily scared or confused, will submit on the scene and facilitate a quick oppression and arrest.
Do all cops do that? Hell no of coarse not. Are some of those people truly guilty of crimes and deserve arrested eventualy anyways? Hell yeah.
But is it worth violating rights or trickery to get a confession or arrest? I dont think so. I dont like cops who play dirty tricks or talk down to citizens regardless of what their social or economic, or brain power status is. One of the reasons I dont watch cop shows honestly. All I keep yelling at the TV is keep your damn mouth shut idiot!!! (To the detainees).
So, yeah I might say I'm gonna call my lawyer, but its not being said as a threat or a jab at officers. Its being said as a protection of MY rights and odds are I already called my lawyer before any need to say that.
If you legally carry a firearm and dont have a pre-planned lawyer you will call then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage and in potential legal jeopardy.
There are plenty of lawyers who will take phone calls and I will be happy to pay their high fees to preserve my freedom. Even if im temporarily detained or even arrested. That's fine. Do what you must officers, but the war will be fought in court if we must be foes.

 

[Trigger Time]

I'm with VUPDblue on this one.
There's possibly a lot of story left out of this.

Na not really. Looks like a local officer pretty much cleared it up. The cops acted like a bunch of thugs and will end up getting their citys asses sued off. Hopefully a couple of them get fired to find careers more fitting for them.

 

[actaeon277]

I have the numbers of 2 lawyers.
Why is that wrong.

If I'm in a defensive shooting, the police don't know what happened.
I'm assuming I'm (at least temporarily) going to jail.
Do I want to be looking up lawyers while I'm in jail? Or asking my family to do that?
Better to have the info ahead of time.

 

[Gabriel]

Na not really. Looks like a local officer pretty much cleared it up. The cops acted like a bunch of thugs and will end up getting their citys asses sued off. Hopefully a couple of them get fired to find careers more fitting for them.

Yeah, I don't remember saying that. All I said was a single supervisor made, what is in my opinion, a poor decision. I wouldn't want to see any of them get fired... which I'm pretty sure isn't going to happen anyway.

 

[2A_Tom]

Na not really. Looks like a local officer pretty much cleared it up. The cops acted like a bunch of thugs and will end up getting their citys asses sued off. Hopefully a couple of them get fired to find careers more fitting for them.

Yeah, I don't remember saying that. All I said was a single supervisor made, what is in my opinion, a [STRIKE]poor[/STRIKE] (unlawful, civil rights violation) [STRIKE]decision[/STRIKE]. I wouldn't want to see any of them get fired... which I'm pretty sure isn't going to happen anyway.

I do not believe he was quoting your words.

He was giving color commentary on your statement. Which I tend to agree with. I love police in general. What I DO NOT APPRECIATE is the wall of BLUE put up to defend the BAD COP that does something stupid.

A supervisor who violates the civil rights of other citizens is not fit for public service aside from public works or animal control.

The SWORN OFFICERS that followed his instructions have no more excuse that the guards of concentration camps at the Nuremberg Trials.

Before you have a cow, I am not calling anyone a Nazi. I am saying that orders can never supersede the LAW. There are LAWFUL ORDERS and there are UNLAWFUL ORDERS. A SWORN OFFICER has to know the difference. The young officers need to have a letter of reprimand (at least) placed in their files.

There IS a class of people who seek power that should never be given power. At least .001% of police and 99.7% of all politicians fall into that demographic.

It is a shame that the BLUE LINE extends to them.

 

[Spear Dane]

Yeah, I don't remember saying that. All I said was a single supervisor made, what is in my opinion, a poor decision. I wouldn't want to see any of them get fired... which I'm pretty sure isn't going to happen anyway.

Hell I hope they get fired. If they are perfectly willing to follow blatantly unconstitutional (aka ILLEGAL) orders then they have no business being on anyone's force. It's called bad judgement.

 

[2A_Tom]

Hell I hope they get fired. If they are perfectly willing to follow blatantly unconstitutional (aka ILLEGAL) orders then they have no business being on anyone's force. It's called bad judgement.

It was a place not populated with minorities. Nothing will come of it.

A few lawsuits to take money from taxpaying citizens for what their betters did and it will be over.

No offense to all of the good cops that desire to uphold THE LAW, Serve, Protect and live up to their Oath to the best of their ability and with the highest professional standards.

GO BIG BLUE, do anything you **** well please, the taxpayers will foot the bill.

 

[Sticky]

If Gabriel's account is accurate, then all MCPD officers on scene are likely guilty of a federal felony complaint called "Denial of constitutional rights under color of law". This complaint should be made at your local federal office; i.e. FBI. (Unless the law has been changed in the last 5 or 10 years.) If found guilty they should be fired, as a felon can't carry a handgun anyway. MCPD will not want to reprimand any officer for committing a felony; while allowing them to continue employment.

I certainly don't want any traffic citations written by a felon.

Prosecutorial nullification, or nullification at another level, has a very high probability in any event. If gambling was legal, I'd even give odds on it.

 

[HoughMade]

If Gabriel's account is accurate, then all MCPD officers on scene are likely guilty of a federal felony complaint called "Denial of constitutional rights under color of law". This complaint should be made at your local federal office; i.e. FBI. (Unless the law has been changed in the last 5 or 10 years.) If found guilty they should be fired, as a felon can't carry a handgun anyway. MCPD will not want to reprimand any officer for committing a felony; while allowing them to continue employment.

I certainly don't want any traffic citations written by a felon.

Prosecutorial nullification, or nullification at another level, has a very high probability in any event. If gambling was legal, I'd even give odds on it.

No, this is what lawsuits are for.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I wouldn't say "fired". I would rather "retrain".

Then, if problems persist, then "fire".

If that means to give him another chance after he gets out of the hospital, I am with you.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I KNOW, by name, who my doctor, my dentist, my teacher are.... mainly because of the frequency of contact. They tend to be constants over years. Most people, don't have a relationship with a lawyer in the same way. And if by chance they do, then the person probably has little bit of scratch, or make frequent bad decisions.

For people who have worked in LE, people saying they're going to call their lawyer, is right up there with "do you know who I am," and "I know the mayor."

I can see your point. On the other hand, ignore that in the wrong case and all hell is about to break loose.

 

[2A_Tom]

https://www.michigancityinjurylaw.com/civil-rights

[h=2]Northwest Indiana Civil Rights Lawyer[/h][FONT=&quot]Have your civil rights been violated? Are you a victim of police misconduct? This includes wrongful arrests and excessive force in the form of police brutality and unjustified police shootings. Have you or a loved one been denied medical attention in a jail or prison?[/FONT]

 

[HoughMade]

Went to law school with him. Good guy.

 

[JeepHammer]

I couldn't do that job...
My 'Idiot Meter' peggs out pretty quickly, so when the self deluded, self important snots tried to tell me my job, then threaten me with a lawyer,
The 'Blue' Falcon' approach wouldn't end well for them.
Not saying I'd pound the whining snot, but I'd sure call the bluff and let the idiot try and dial up a lawyer from a bar at 1:30 am...
Call the bluff...

Of course the lawyer is going to tell the idiot to simply comply, but I bet the officer isn't going to let it go at that.
Officers have to have inflated egos to run TOWARDS gunfire, burning houses/cars, etc. It's mandatory and the training bolsters it.

Same with military training, you actually *Think* you can charge a machine gun over open ground,
That gets pulled back, tempered, when it actually happens, but you *Believe* you can survive it when in training and first deployed.
It's mandatory, if you don't think you will survive, you couldn't get anyone to fight.

Put a bunch of younger officers, UNDER ORDERS together, and it can get out of hand quickly...
That's how unarmed 'Suspects' get beaten, choked, shot.
No shortage of officers going WAY too far, WAY too fast...

And let's not forget cowards. A coward will break out maximum force immediately since he's scared to death.
They usually get weeded out, but not until after they so something horrendous.
And there are sociopaths, such as the guy that emptied his pistol into a suspect walking away from him in Chicago.

I'm hoping my interactions are with the level headed, and showing my ID, maybe a pat down, and I'm on my way.
I'm not a 'Model Citizen', I ride motorcycles, I shoot guns, I'm former military, and I/we travel a lot, so I'm also often the 'Outsider'.
99% of the time, I'm in T-shirt, jeans & boots.
I'm an automatic 'Suspect' without looking like I have any 'Connection' at all (and I really don't, the governor isn't on speed dial ), so I be as 'Gray' as possible.

When you rock the boat, expect to get wet!