What can we learn from Sandy

[RedCell]

I learned a major lesson from the two hurricanes I lived through - Alicia in 1983 and Carlos in 1985 - DON'T LIVE NEAR THE EAST COAST OR GULF COAST!!!

Not that a major earthquake or a tornado outbreak couldn't do the same things here that are causing so much (temporary) suffering on the East Coast right now.

I'm still pretty young, too young to remember too many bad storms, but I'm glad I live where I do. As far as I'm concerned, the Midwest and especially Indiana is the exact right place to be at any time.

Also, I've never considered needing extra gas inasmuch as stockpiling a few gas cans. That is definitely something that I am going to be doing now though... Seeing what has happened here, the only family that I could possibly get to in a bug-out situation is in TN and I definitely would not be getting there on a single tank of gas. You learn something new every day!

 

[sloughfoot]

The official FEMA practice disaster in Indiana that is practiced a couple times a year by all interested Federal and State agencies is the New Madrid fault letting go. It is overdue to let loose. The Yellowstone cauldron is also overdue.

If you think you are immune from mass disaster because you are in Indiana, you are sadly mistaken.

The mass die off as a result of either is unimaginable.

You can prep, but it won't really matter. You might have 3 years worth of food and thousands of rounds of ammo, but the ash from yellowstone will still choke the life out of you and everybody else.

Cheers.

I prep anyway, but there are no fantasies about how successful they will be. Maybe I will get lucky, the odds are not good. Maybe my preps will land in Ohio and will be like manna from heaven to a family trying to get by.

I and many others practice our response to a earthquake, but the ash cloud from a yellowstone event will ground all of our aircraft and render disaster relief efforts to be ineffective and insufficient.

At the most, you can prep for local brief incidents, but something like Sandy or New madrid, or Yellowstone or the tornado that tears up three counties, you and I will be just along for the ride.

I believe in keeping it real.

 

[Kingpin]

You hit the nail on the head Sloughfoot.

 

[jedi]

What is this yellowstone event you talk about?

 

[Ted]

If Bush was responsible for the response failures of Katrina, why isn't Obama responsible for the apparent failures of the response of Sandy? Or could it be that people, not governments, are responsible for themselves.

Every weather report forecast for Sandy, as with Katrina, was accurate in every detail to the imminent dangers. So instead of packing up the car and going 100+ miles inland to be out of harm's way, the people who apparently didn't learn from the history of Katrina, repeated it.

Similarly to the idiot residents of the Gulf coast, the idiots of the Sandy disaster zone have only themselves to blame for their predicament.

 

[jedi]

@Ted
I think this will help sum up your post.

 

[Ted]

@Ted
I think this will help sum up your post.......

Darwin and his proven theory of natural selection, would probably be labeled as racist by the left-wing haters.

 

[jedi]

Darwin and his proven theory of natural selection, would probably be labeled as racist by the left-wing haters.

That is ok with me I'm sure darwin will take care of them as well.

Now someone tell me about this yellowstone ash?

 

[eldirector]

That is ok with me I'm sure darwin will take care of them as well.

Now someone tell me about this yellowstone ash?

Yellowstone is a giant caldera (ancient volcano) that is overdue for a major eruption. It has a history of being kinda, uh, big.

Some "lite" info:
Yellowstone Caldera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Ted]

That is ok with me I'm sure darwin will take care of them as well.

Now someone tell me about this yellowstone ash?

Likely referring to a volcanic event, much like Mt. St. Helens.

http://www.nps.gov/yell/naturescience/volcanoqa.htm

 

[Survivalcookie]

For a tornado..I would suggest burying 5 or 6 gallon buckets with gamma lids in your yard with supplies to last (i Use to say 72 hours) Now I am going to say 6 to 7 days. I can get 72 hours of supplies for 4 people along with shelter and fire in one 6 gallon bucket.

Never store all your preps in one place.

You want to make sure your family has something ...pay for a small storage 50 miles from your home or find a relative you can trust to store some stuff for you.

 

[jedi]

Yellowstone is a giant caldera (ancient volcano) that is overdue for a major eruption. It has a history of being kinda, uh, big.

Some "lite" info:
Yellowstone Caldera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks did not know about this one but meh!
This one is on the same level as the asteroid hitting earth in 2036 or like the 2012 (the movie) earthquakes. No way to really prepare and expect to live with those E.L.E. so I'm not even going to try and worry about them.

Besides only 49 days left till the end of the world since it will be 12-21-2012.

Now the bury some food idea. hum.. that does have merits!

 

[avboiler11]

Haven't read this whole thread, and don't really buy into a 'prepper' mentality...but here's the gist of what *I* learned from Sandy:

1. Have basic food, water, and medicine supplies for at least a week
2. Keep your cars at least half full of gasoline, with extra gasoline in storage
3. A generator is great to have, a wired transfer switch for your home even better. See #2
4. The government simply cannot provide all needs, when they're needed...especially after a large-scale disaster in a densely populated area. Plan accordingly.
5. When you are told to leave for your own safety, GTFO!

 

[pudly]

Haven't read this whole thread, and don't really buy into a 'prepper' mentality...but here's the gist of what *I* learned from Sandy:

1. Have basic food, water, and medicine supplies for at least a week
2. Keep your cars at least half full of gasoline, with extra gasoline in storage
3. A generator is great to have, a wired transfer switch for your home even better. See #2
4. The government simply cannot provide all needs, when they're needed...especially after a large-scale disaster in a densely populated area. Plan accordingly.
5. When you are told to leave for your own safety, GTFO!

Don't look now, but I think you just bought into the prepper mentality.

Prepping isn't about the end of the world. It is about looking at the world around you with clear eyes, understanding that negative events can happen and taking the precautions you believe are appropriate. That can range anywhere from having three days of supplies (most don't) to preparing for the end of civilization due to various major events. Please don't base your opinion of preppers on what the media chooses to present.

 

[avboiler11]

Please don't base your opinion of preppers on what the media chooses to present.

I don't.

As I posted on another forum today, "There's a huge gulf between 'Doomsday Preppers' and 'Ready.gov'."

 

[LtScott14]

Yep, history repeats itself! The country saw the results of Katrina, Sandy, and who knows next. As long as people have their cell phones, cars, and lifestyle, why care about the "not haves"? Just call someone, and they will send you help! Please pull your head out of your "sand" and realize this. It is 72 minimum hrs for anybody to come! 3 day warning.
Fire, Police, EMS hopefully sooner than that, if they find you amongst the wreckage with all your limbs still attached and working. What about the rest of your family? 3 day warning.
All this because the urge to stay outlived the the urge to go? Pack up, blow town till next week, go to the Smoky Mountains, camp out, and watch the Weather Channel on your phone. 3 day warning.

Yep, what will suck? Pancakes in the Smokies, or rat pie in Jersey?

 

[Libertarian01]

To All,

What we are witnessing is the result of purely mathematical equations.

I believe the descent into chaos is proportional to two (2) main facts:

#1) The population density of a particular area, and;
#2) The combination of damage & area.

When you have a large amount of people (8 Million+ in New York City) the percentage of people totally unprepared will have a geometrically increasing affect on the area around it and within it.

Of 8 million people a percentage is totally unprepared. When I say totally unprepared I mean totally unprepared! Less than one (1) day of food, less than five (5) gallons of gas for the car. No generator or supplies of any kind. I don't know what it is but let us assume a very small percentage, as most people will have at least some minor stores to utilize.

If we go with 1% that represents 80,000 people. Provided that emergency infrastructure is operating marginally that geographic area could probably absorb that number and disruption would be minimal.

Then we move to those who are marginally prepared. They have more than one (1) day but less than (4). They have maybe a half a tank of gas in their auto. They will have the ability to survive without a problem for at least 3 - 4 days. This will be a much larger percentage, say 33% of the population. At 33% of 8 million we come to 2,640,000 people.

So the initial 80,000 go out for help and are reasonably cared for by the infrastructure. However, the infrastructure then gets hit with 2.6 million more looking for help that has already been utilized. A small percentage of the 2.6 million people may find infrastructure help, say 10% of them. That would reduce the number needing help and not receiving it to 2.3 million (rounding up 'cause I'm a nice guy.)

Initially neighbors and others will be helpful and share. This would come mostly from folks who are now in the upper 66% of the preparation ladder. When they do it will strain their resources tremendously.

When the numbers of people begin running out of necessary supplies some will reach desperation levels sooner than others. As we all have different tolerances for pain so too do we differ on our tolerance for hunger, thirst and comfort. Some people will begin dumpster diving. At first this will seem abhorrent to observers but as time passes it will slowly dawn to those of higher tolerance that "everyone is doing it" and if they are going to survive they are going to need to do it as well.

During all of these days the system/government will be attempting to restore order and bring in emergency supplies which will possibly alleviate the needs of the people, but if the devastation is too widespread their abilities will be hampered and delayed. Each hour of delay creates a greater strain on peoples ability to maintain self control.

The second issue is the area of damage. If a tornado comes through near our homes and some people suffer a total loss we can take them in, at least temporarily, until infrastructure and systems are restored both by the government and private sector, such as insurance companies paying out on losses and getting people moved into motels, hotels or rental properties while their homes are rebuilt.

I just looked at Owen County Indiana. Population 21,500 with almost 10% of that being in Spencer Indiana. Should a tornado hit that county the local infrastructure shouldn't be that damaged as it is spread over such a wide area AND the number of people shouldn't be as high percentage-wise. A major tornado hitting Spencer would put a severe strain on county resources but even then neighboring counties and state organizations could step in. I would also presume that most of the people living in that county are much more independent of infrastructure needs simply due to the nature of terrain, economy and culture.

It is quite easy to forget that a years worth of food for one (1) person is only three (3) monthes of food for a family of four (4). Two weeks of rations for one (1) becomes five (5) days for four (4) people. This then moves the person prepared with two (2) weeks of food to only marginally ahead of the 33% discussed above. A scary reality for someone who honestly thought they were prepared.

In large cities some preparations will not be found by most people. A person or family living in a townhouse in Manhattan will never have need for a chainsaw and thus will never own one. At least they will never need one outside of an emergency situation. This is the exact opposite of most people in Owen County who all probably have a chainsaw.

Before we deride them how many preppers here have enough NBC suits with filters for the entire family for 30 days? Or backup motorcycles to carry all of our gear if we need to bug out and four wheel vehicles impossible to use? Or a vehicle that can forge rivers if the bridge is blocked by a simple semi that cannot be moved?

The point I am trying to make with the above paragraph is that there will always be the potential for a disaster through which we can survive without the perfect gear for that situation. Always! Only the very rich have the ability to cover almost every contingency. The rest of us need to prepare for the most likely problems first and work our way down the chain to the lowest probabilities.

From the beginning to the end it boils down to pure math. What is the greatest percentage of possible threats that we can prepare for within our limited budgets? With that we wind up on top because if we think about what we are not currently prepared for or may never be prepared for we can come up with very good contingency plans to deal with that problem should it ever arise! Our greatest asset is our mind! Our second greatest asset is our ability to make friends and cooperate to overcome obstacles.

Just a few thoughts on the matter.

Regards,

Doug

 

[Meister]

Agreed

Another 72hr stash is needed, working on that now

That's a start. I've got 2 weeks worth at 2 locations within a days hike.

The lack of preparedness on the part of most people is truly staggering.

It's ingrained into our society. These lemmings will die trying to loot and steal or die of starvation soon enough in a large scale tragedy.

This might be off the accepted logic on this and many other survival forums, but I have learned again that if your home, where your preps are located is swept away by flood, hurricane, tornado, earthquake, you might have to get by with whatever is on you or in your bugout vehicle, or can be salvaged from your demolished home.

Even those who prepped in advance of this storm lost eveything when the waters and wind came. Even those with weeks worth of food, water, and fuel in storage in the basement, lost everything to nature's power.

Of course, those who didn't plan ahead are screwed, but even preppers can get screwed too. They just don't get the press that the totally unprepared get because preppers are not whiners. They find a way outside of the box.

That is my opinion. FWIW

Many preppers have off site storage and redundant caches. Most serious preppers living near water would have a bailout plan. A tidal wave plan, insurrection plan, Fire plan, pathogen plan, etc. The first plan would be to set up shop in an area with the least amount of natural disaster possibilities.

I've watched several interviews of people on Statten Island who just can't believe that after 3-4 days the government hasn't shown up to help them. I can't help feeling sorry for them because they really expected the government to take care of them and they're still waiting.

They paid their unbelievably high taxes, they should get saved! Shame on the gooberment for not helping!

I'm still pretty young, too young to remember too many bad storms, but I'm glad I live where I do. As far as I'm concerned, the Midwest and especially Indiana is the exact right place to be at any time.

Also, I've never considered needing extra gas inasmuch as stockpiling a few gas cans. That is definitely something that I am going to be doing now though... Seeing what has happened here, the only family that I could possibly get to in a bug-out situation is in TN and I definitely would not be getting there on a single tank of gas. You learn something new every day!

I'd go for as much gas as you need to get to your location plus 1/2 as a minimum. If things are bad, traffic will be bad.

 

[TiminMishawaka]

I'm on Long Island right now. I'll give you a run down of the realities here when I have a chance. The truth is getting through a disaster starts with the neighbors you choose. More later.

 

[churchmouse]

Miester has most options covered. We have fuel stashed away from us at safe locations. My bug out would be west of indy so our routes are well planned with alternates routes to the alternates. Stay away from the main rds. The sheeple and lemmings will know of no other route to escape and that will be their end.
Several have stated and it is a fact, even the best laid out plans can be thwarted by mother nature on a rampage. She will have the final say in these matters.