Whiskywarrior stand off in NY?

[HoughMade]

Been following it all night as it has unfolded. MAC was helpful in mobilizing people.

One thing's for sure, this whole thing was inciting....I mean exciting....no, I was right the first time.

I mean, obviously the right thing to do when a perceived injustice is being done that you have no reliable, first-hand knowledge about is to encourage people to show up some place where there is police activity and insert themselves. I don't see any other option.

....except maybe the guy allowing himself to be peaceably arrested and then fighting about whether it was a proper arrest in court. I get that Molon Labe t-shirts have less of an effect in court than in a mob, but believe it or not, criminal law attorneys have a much higher success rate than random neckbeards on the street of resolving injustices...without rioting and gunfire.

 

[Trigger Time]

One thing's for sure, this whole thing was inciting....I mean exciting....no, I was right the first time.

I mean, obviously the right thing to do when a perceived injustice is being done that you have no reliable, first-hand knowledge about is to encourage people to show up some place where there is police activity and insert themselves. I don't see any other option.

....except maybe the guy allowing himself to be peaceably arrested and then fighting about whether it was a proper arrest in court. I get that Molon Labe t-shirts have less of an effect in court than in a mob, but believe it or not, criminal law attorneys have a much higher success rate than random neckbeards on the street of resolving injustices...without rioting and gunfire.

Give that advice to virginians after this new unconstitutional gun law they just proposed gets passed. Im sure the courts there will be on the side of the defendants (yep that was in purple).
There comes a point in some cases where a line needs to be drawn

 

[Trigger Time]

We are at a parallel point in our Republics history. Very real things are happening now that will lead to very bad times ahead. But in the end Freedom will prevail.

 

[HoughMade]

I get it. We hate representative republic and the rule of law when it goes against us.

 

[JettaKnight]

If the guy is a wife abuser then **** him.
But how many cases have we seen already nationaly where red flag or confiscation of certain mags and guns has been used as backdoor violations of the 2nd amendment aka tyranny? Lots and the number will grow.
We are more pro-gun here so yeah we have good cops aka patriots who wont KNOWINGLY confiscate guns. But other states seem to have no shortage of ones that will and have. We will have them here too.
Whats going to stop them from doing it is if we rally around each other and have strength in numbers. They cannot beat that.
Yeah there are going to be mistakes (like this indtance). But what it shows me is people have had enough of being oppressed and WILL standup and defend freedom when the real time comes.
Government should have a fear of the people if they betray their oath, not the other way around.

That's the sort of mindset I was referring to with BLM.

"There are cases where black people are abused by LEO, therefore we need to act like it's happening everywhere."


I get your attitude, and it's the right line of thinking, but let's make extra sure we really know what's happening before we go...



And just how many cases of red flag abuse is there? Is it on par with mass shooting? Are we in danger of having the same, "we must do something" attitude as the gun grabbers? I don't know the answer, but from an outside perspective, we seem to have a similar reaction. I really, really want to know how many innocent gun owners have been steamrolled by this, and how many dangerous people have been helped.

 

[BugI02]

One thing's for sure, this whole thing was inciting....I mean exciting....no, I was right the first time.

I mean, obviously the right thing to do when a perceived injustice is being done that you have no reliable, first-hand knowledge about is to encourage people to show up some place where there is police activity and insert themselves. I don't see any other option.

....except maybe the guy allowing himself to be peaceably arrested and then fighting about whether it was a proper arrest in court. I get that Molon Labe t-shirts have less of an effect in court than in a mob, but believe it or not, criminal law attorneys have a much higher success rate than random neckbeards on the street of resolving injustices...without rioting and gunfire.

Have you not stopped to consider the broad believability of the story? Many people found little reason not to believe that a local government in the state of NY overreacting in such circumstances was incredible. That doesn't bode well for keeping the gloves on

 

[HoughMade]

Have you not stopped to consider the broad believability of the story? Many people found little reason not to believe that a local government in the state of NY overreacting in such circumstances was incredible. That doesn't bode well for keeping the gloves on

That people who have primed themselves with consumptions of social media that is carefully curated to exclude viewpoints that challenge their presumptions?

I absolutely considered that.

That is why it is so important to not rush to escalate situations.

 

[BugI02]

That's the sort of mindset I was referring to with BLM.

"There are cases where black people are abused by LEO, therefore we need to act like it's happening everywhere."


I get your attitude, and it's the right line of thinking, but let's make extra sure we really know what's happening before we go...



And just how many cases of red flag abuse is there? Is it on par with mass shooting? Are we in danger of having the same, "we must do something" attitude as the gun grabbers? I don't know the answer, but from an outside perspective, we seem to have a similar reaction. I really, really want to know how many innocent gun owners have been steamrolled by this, and how many dangerous people have been helped.

How would you know? Do you think the media will report it as such? And if not, like the people in HK wont we be forced to rely on social media/word of mouth? The stand-off was what, nine hours. How long after you first heard about it would you have to leave Indiana, if you decided to intervene, in order to make a difference

What we need are reliable sources of info in every state that can perhaps be relied on to relay the facts on the ground and supply rapid response, but the whole idea of a rapid response is fraught

Do we know for certain yet whether the guy's wifi was jammed? If it was, does that make you feel better about how this went down?

 

[HoughMade]

"Red Flag" law abuse, and I'm sure it happens, is best fought in the courtroom and the legislature.

...because there is no practical, effective or realistic other means to fight it.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

"Red Flag" law abuse, and I'm sure it happens, is best fought in the courtroom and the legislature.

...because there is no practical, effective or realistic other means to fight it.

Gee, lawyer who wants us to pay a lawyer to do lawyer things. (Purple)

We’re due for a good pitchfork and torches scenario. Why do you hate freedom?

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Honestly tho, even if this case was a false flag, people are so skeptical and willing to defend possible guilty people over an unconstitutional law. If the law didn’t exist, and we actually had due process, this wouldn’t even be a discussion. The fact is it can and it will happen to innocent people eventually, until the red flag laws are overruled and we no longer have to worry about a mad neighbor or ex reporting people falsely.

 

[Usmccookie]

"Red Flag" law abuse, and I'm sure it happens, is best fought in the courtroom and the legislature.

...because there is no practical, effective or realistic other means to fight it.

Pretty much our playbook for decades.. don't break the laws they make up as they keep making them up. Just keep it going. We should try this with taxes and government spending/ borrowing.

 

[JettaKnight]

How would you know? Do you think the media will report it as such? And if not, like the people in HK wont we be forced to rely on social media/word of mouth? The stand-off was what, nine hours. How long after you first heard about it would you have to leave Indiana, if you decided to intervene, in order to make a difference

Why don't you get that big fancy university there to study this?

 

[BugI02]

That people who have primed themselves with consumptions of social media that is carefully curated to exclude viewpoints that challenge their presumptions?

I absolutely considered that.

That is why it is so important to not rush to escalate situations.

Would be nice if the police felt that way, too. Didn't take long to get the APC there, and WhyTF does a small town 'upstate' NY (the NYC version of that, where anything north of White Plains or the boroughs is 'upstate') PD even have an APC

What if LEO had taken a less 'take 'em down' and more 'talk 'em down'attitude at Ruby Ridge or Waco or Malheur? Maybe no OKC/Murrah. Maybe Vicki and LaVoy still with us

Shouldn't the ones standing in the powder room (LEO) bear some responsibility for not lighting matches

 

[BugI02]

Why don't you get that big fancy university there to study this?

View attachment 81777

 

[JettaKnight]

View attachment 81777

I prefer to think of myself as rubber, and you as glue...

Would be nice if the police felt that way, too. Didn't take long to get the APC there, and WhyTF does a small town 'upstate' NY (the NYC version of that, where anything north of White Plains or the boroughs is 'upstate') PD even have an APC

What if LEO had taken a less 'take 'em down' and more 'talk 'em down'attitude at Ruby Ridge or Waco or Malheur? Maybe no OKC/Murrah. Maybe Vicki and LaVoy still with us

Shouldn't the ones standing in the powder room (LEO) bear some responsibility for not lighting matches

It sounds like they did talk him down, and it took six hours to do so.

 

[BugI02]

I prefer to think of myself as rubber, and you as glue...






It sounds like they did talk him down, and it took six hours to do so.

So why roll the APC first thing? Was the police station so far away that they wouldn't have time to move it in if they needed it?

I think Horiuchi's flight was delayed, so they went with negotiation

 

[HoughMade]

Pretty much our playbook for decades.. don't break the laws they make up as they keep making them up. Just keep it going. We should try this with taxes and government spending/ borrowing.

So you're saying that there have NOT been great strides in gun rights in the last 20 years. That doesn't comport with my sense of history and reality, but hey...everything is subjective....I guess.

 

[T.Lex]

...everything is subjective....

That's a fact!

 

[HoughMade]

...Shouldn't the ones standing in the powder room (LEO) bear some responsibility for not lighting matches

Absolutely.

...and the wise response to people lighting matches would not seem to be to pull the pin on a Willie Pete and toss it in.