Would you really pull the trigger?

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  • Hammerhead

    Master
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    Jul 2, 2010
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    Do you carry a knife?........If so, I wanna see your totin' chip.


    I still have mine, with all four corners. Same with my Firem'n Chit. They're a little worn after twenty years, but I could still laminate them and put them in my wallet with my LTCH. Perhaps those are something I can also hand over to a LEO when asked for my papers, please.

    :D
     

    cosermann

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    Aug 15, 2008
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    I'm a little surprised that no one has pointed out that, contrary to the OP's assertions, armed citizens use their firearms more than the police do, and do a pretty darned good job of it. ...

    * Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year. (1)

    * A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 3.5% of households had members who had used a gun "for self-protection or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere." Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 1,029,615 such incidents per year. This figure excludes all "military service, police work, or work as a security guard." (2)

    * A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes about 498,000 times per year. (Getting tired of citing things, consider the 2 notes below representative.).

    * A 1982 survey of male felons in 11 state prisons dispersed across the U.S. found:

    34% had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured" by an armed victim.
    40% had decided not to commit a crime because they "knew or believed" that the victim was carrying a gun
    69% personally knew other criminals who had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured" by an armed victim

    * This one is from memory. (I think I'm recalling it from an older NRA fact card.) It said something to the effect that non-LEOs use their firearms twice as much for defensive reasons as LEOs and are twice as likely to shoot the correct individual as LEOs are. (Again, from memory.) Not bad for a bunch of "John Wayne wannabes."

    1 - Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000.

    2 - Paper: "Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun." By Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz. Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Fall 1995.

    Political and other aspects of the OP aside, we do know that mindset is critically important. I just happen to think that many more people are clear headed about this than the OP does. Most of the regular folk I know have a good sense of right/wrong, justice, etc. and would have no compunction about pulling the trigger in the lawful defense of innocent life. Some would view it as a solemn duty.

    People do, in fact, defensively and lawfully, pull the trigger MUCH more frequently than is reported widely by the political hacks in the media.
     

    Hammerhead

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    Would I pull the trigger? Hell yes! I'm proactive in my protection. I pull my gun and pull the trigger for every personal encounter I ever have. Never know when someone might be gunning for me. Mickey D's drive thru? Bang. Bank Teller? Bang. Hell, I've been through three paper boys this week. Nothing like the shoot first, shoot next, shoot some more and only after everyone else is dead ask a few questions approach.

    Be more proactive in your defense. Shoot everyone you meet before they shoot you. The best defense is a superior firepower immediate reaction offense.:n00b:


    :ar15::draw::shoot::mallninja::smileak::biggun:
     

    Gabriel

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    Jun 3, 2010
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    The shore of wonderful Lake Michigan
    I don't think anyone really knows if they will or not. There is absolutely no way to say for sure until it happens. I could sit here and say I would all day long, but in the end it's only words. I've been shot at twice and both times I never fired a shot. I think most people watch too much TV and believe killing someone would be easy. My grandfather was an MP during WWII and had to shoot a man. He took it very hard and only spoke of it one time. So for me it's not a matter of would I pull the trigger or not, it's could I live with myself if I did. Not to mention the legal ramifications that will happen if I did kill someone. Carrying a firearm is a huge responsibility and a burden. I just hope I never have to find out either way, but if I am confronted with this tough choice I hope I make the right decision.

    This is the best post in this thread and anyone that says without a doubt that they would pull the trigger is really only guessing (that leaves out military folks that have been there, done that obviously).

    I know some pretty "gung ho" manly men that have shot and killed someone in completely justifiable shootings and seen that it isn't easy to live with.

    I've come very close to shooting two people, but luckliy have not done so. one of those instances I still can't beleieve I didn't shoot, but I'm glad I didn't and the situation turned out as well as it could have.
     

    Lobo

    Shooter
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    Where, oh where has the OP gone?
    Oh where, oh where can he be?
    With his cool Taurus snub,
    In the 1% club.
    Oh where, oh where can he be?

    :)

    On a more serious note, I think that most people who have gone through the trouble of getting an LTCH are serious about their defense, and would respond appropriately to a violent attack on them or their family. Carrying a gun is a novelty at first, but I've been doing it for so long, it kinda gets to be a pain sometimes. I think others would agree, or the little J frames and .380's wouldn't be such good sellers. But I've always got some kind of handgun with me, for the same reason that I always wear my seat belt and keep my auto and life insurance current. Because I care about my family, and would be devastated if harm should come to them because I failed to protect them to the best of my ability.
     

    Indydrew

    Marksman
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    9   0   0
    Dec 14, 2009
    228
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    Brownsburg, IN
    Wow, my first experience with your site and I run into this. I am now having second thoughts about registering. BTW, operating a motor vehicle in a right-of-way is a not a right. It is a privilege, and can be revoked in order to protect the public. I will exercise my right to wander around a bit more.

    This is not representative of a large majority of the threads on this forum...you just got "lucky" (or unlucky) to have picked this thread to start with.

    Please hang around for awhile and you will see what these folks are all about...

    -Drew
     

    Bill of Rights

    Cogito, ergo porto.
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    Apr 26, 2008
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    Where's the bacon?
    The inalienable rights you refer to are "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" - not the Bill of Rights - there is a difference

    Unfortunately, many other rights can be modified with an ammendment or by the order of the supreme court.

    Doesn't anyone read the constitution?

    If you are gonna offer opionions on the definitions therein please read up first. I am sorry to sound like a jerk but I'd bet 99% of gun owners never read the constitution in it's entirety, the bill of rights or subsequent ammendments not to mention intro constitutional law. One of my pet peeves is ignorant people blowing smoke - no offence.

    I've read the Constitution. I'd like you (Osobuco) to show me where in that document, as amended, you find the inalienable rights to which you refer. Let me save you the trouble. They're not there. You'll find those listed in the Declaration of Independence and the specific text reads, "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. -- That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed...." (That, BTW, was from memory, so if there's a typo, I apologize in advance.) Note that it says, "...that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness..." Among signifies that the list is not all-inclusive. See the Ninth Amendment for more on that.

    Additionally, not a single one of those unalienable rights can be undone by any act of government. The ability to lawfully exercise those rights can be removed, but doing so activates the next section of the Declaration of Independence. "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." (that one I copy/pasted. ;))

    As to the initial question, I hope to never find out. None of us will ever know beyond a shadow of a doubt that we would pull the trigger and not wait too long until we find out the hard way. Further, as has been said, no range training will prepare you to do so. I like to think that my experience in dealing with crises has prepared me to put my marksmanship to the test in such a circumstance. Remaining calm when lives are on the line is a learned skill and from my understanding, among the most vital in situations like that.

    As for the suggestion of mandatory training. feel free to take whatever training you think will benefit you, but don't even think you have the right to force others to follow your lead.

    The state of Utah has a mandatory 4 hour class for their CFP. That class was well-taught when I took it. I learned a little about Utah's laws that I did not know before, but I learned little about gun handling of which I was unaware. This is no reflection on the instructor; he merely taught the class that Utah required him to teach.

    Why is any other class any different? Live fire? See my other posts on this subject in re: incrementalism.

    You have your rights. I'll be d*mned if you can have mine.

    Blessings,
    Bill
     
    Last edited:

    infidel

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    Dec 15, 2008
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    Well I do apologize.

    I was just in the mood to bust on a noob, and that 51st post just seemed oh so familiar. That makes me wonder, do you have to have over 50 posts for the classifieds or just 50?
     

    Bill of Rights

    Cogito, ergo porto.
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    Where's the bacon?
    Well I do apologize.

    I was just in the mood to bust on a noob, and that 51st post just seemed oh so familiar. That makes me wonder, do you have to have over 50 posts for the classifieds or just 50?

    Your 51st post can be in the Classifieds. We've had several "50th posts" that have been removed for that reason.
     

    Pale Rider

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    Apr 12, 2009
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    Too Close to Home
    "TAI am a former TSA Screener from Indy. I lasted 2.5 years at the old Indy airport(2002-2005). I was in the original batch of new screeners when TSA was formed.
    I can tell you for a fact that 99% of the TSA Screeners, Supervisors and Managers are Morons. Any screeners on this site, sorry, but its true..."

    This is a post in another thread from the OP... looks like he's in the 1% again...

    Edited to Include another post by the OP... dude is always in the elite minority... man I wish I was that ignorant, life would be bliss

    "Where I live now is like a freakin Third World country. Nobody speaks English and as a White Male I am a minority here. I lock all my doors even when I am inside armed..."
    So, open carry while you can!
     

    down3green

    Sharpshooter
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    Aug 19, 2010
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    74.3 % of all statistics are made up on the spot.

    Just as an aside, you're totally disregarding prior military and LEO that have had years of training, who are now civilians.

    Over confidence and underestimating a possible foe are generally a bad idea, 63.8% of the time.

    While I understand your point and appreciate your position, I think your data are slightly flawed. The most recent report (FY2009) from the Bureau of Data and More Data show that fully 74.7% of statistics are made up "on the spot." It also shows that "Over confidence and underestimating a possible foe" are generally a bad idea 100% of the time.

    Otherwise, I agree with you 97.2%.
     

    Redskinsfan

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    My guess is that everyone has missed the OP's original intent and that is to see how many replies he can garner from one ridiculous group of comments. This is assuming that he has the intelligence to actually do that, I may be wrong on that count. Either way I can't take his comments seriously as they are so ridiculous.

    Terry
     
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