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  • Shay

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    18   0   0
    Mar 17, 2008
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    REALLY need to review this thread.

    Either I received bad training or someone needs to enlighten a WHOLE bunch of potential, uneducated gun owners.

    https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/handguns/196746-i_was_almost_robbed_today.html

    I was not there, but as the situation was stated by the OP I would not have gotten my gun out.

    I also don't typically argue with Internet tough guys who aren't going to be swayed from believing that their gun should be their first line of defense.

    Realistic, scenario-based FoF training would probably help the OP make better decisions under stress, but it is unlikely that he will devote the time, money and energy to seeking it out. In fact, his "success" in that situation probably reinforces his belief that professional training is unnecessary.
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
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    187   0   0
    Dec 7, 2011
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    Usually just letting said douche bag see the holstered piece clearly at a reasonable distance is enough to get him on to a softer target. Once drawn, you are on a rocky path, once fired your life is forever changed.
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
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    187   0   0
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    REALLY need to review this thread.

    Either I received bad training or someone needs to enlighten a WHOLE bunch of potential, uneducated gun owners.

    https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/handguns/196746-i_was_almost_robbed_today.html

    Your training was sound and not lost on me or others who are like minded.
    It is age and experience that sets some folks ahead of others. When a much younger man I was not as rational and responsible as needed to carry but I did.
    Many would just love to have a situation that "Allowed" them to pull their their pistols. I might have been that person more than a few years back. I got into a bit of trouble along the way. It changed my views of the world.
     

    jeremy

    Grandmaster
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    7   0   0
    Feb 18, 2008
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    Fiddler's Green
    As in that thread there are entirely to many details left out for me to Armchair whether or not that was a good or bad decision. Personally, I see nothing wrong with unholstering a Firearm and and telling someone to leave me alone. I have done it in the past and may very well have to do it again in the future as well.
     

    fullmetaljesus

    Probably smoking a cigar.
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    6   0   0
    Jan 12, 2012
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    Ok, for those of you who said he did something incorrectly, what would you have done differently (granted the details given)
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
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    187   0   0
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    As in that thread there are entirely to many details left out for me to Armchair whether or not that was a good or bad decision. Personally, I see nothing wrong with unholstering a Firearm and and telling someone to leave me alone. I have done it in the past and may very well have to do it again in the future as well.

    Agreed. I have been in some serious trouble over this in my life and do things in a certain order if possible. Have pulled it since and will not hesitate if need to again. I just look at things through different eyes these days. I truly enjoy choking the crap out of stupid people if I get the chance. It is such a stress reliever...................;)
     

    esrice

    Certified Regular Guy
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    20   0   0
    Jan 16, 2008
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    Having only read the vague OP, I would not have reacted the same way.

    The aggressor had opportunity, he had intent, but it is unclear if he had ability. It is also unclear what other options that OP had to avail himself of.

    How far away was the guy? Could the OP have just jumped in his car and locked the doors and driven away? Did the OP believe the aggressor was armed?

    At least the OP heard a verbal threat. Without that, pulling his gun would've been really difficult to justify.
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
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    187   0   0
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    Ok, for those of you who said he did something incorrectly, what would you have done differently (granted the details given)

    Was not there so it would only be a poorly informed opinion. Did he really feel threatened or scared...has he received more than his fair share of A$$ whippings has he been taught to respond in that way, did he feel like John Wayne and just run the BG douche bag off. Have no real feel for the situation.
    If the distance is acceptable, I let the idiot know I am not to be pissed with. The "Look" usually works. Body language shows intent if you are looking. If he continues making bad decisions I will escalate my response accordingly. If he gets inside my zone after being shown I am armed then it is all on him. You can not fix stupid but you can keep it from reproducing.
    As stated earlier, the look or seeing the gun will put most on to look for a softer target.
     

    fullmetaljesus

    Probably smoking a cigar.
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    Was not there so it would only be a poorly informed opinion. Did he really feel threatened or scared...has he received more than his fair share of A$$ whippings has he been taught to respond in that way, did he feel like John Wayne and just run the BG douche bag off. Have no real feel for the situation.
    If the distance is acceptable, I let the idiot know I am not to be pissed with. The "Look" usually works. Body language shows intent if you are looking. If he continues making bad decisions I will escalate my response accordingly. If he gets inside my zone after being shown I am armed then it is all on him. You can not fix stupid but you can keep it from reproducing.
    As stated earlier, the look or seeing the gun will put most on to look for a softer target.

    How large is your no fly zone? lets pretend that your car was 50 feet away in front of you. You hear "Give me your money and now one gets hurt" You turn around to find him at 15 feet away. you lift your shirt enough to expose your gun. He continues to move forward towards you... What happens next?
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
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    187   0   0
    Dec 7, 2011
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    How large is your no fly zone? lets pretend that your car was 50 feet away in front of you. You hear "Give me your money and now one gets hurt" You turn around to find him at 15 feet away. you lift your shirt enough to expose your gun. He continues to move forward towards you... What happens next?

    With in 15 ft I would have seen him already. Situational awareness at all times.
    If he is that close and coming it is probably going hand to hand at that point. It has been shown that a person can close on you from almost 20 ft. away before you can draw, aim, remove the safety and fire. Like I said, I would have seen him already.
    I am 6'1" and 250. I have had training and am no stranger to a decent street fight. I actually prefer giving pain to folks lie that on a personal level.
    Most folks walk around in a daze staring at the screen on the cell phone or rocking to an I pod. Meals on heels for the BG douche bags. They tend to strike the softer targets.
     

    fullmetaljesus

    Probably smoking a cigar.
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    With in 15 ft I would have seen him already. Situational awareness at all times.
    If he is that close and coming it is probably going hand to hand at that point. It has been shown that a person can close on you from almost 20 ft. away before you can draw, aim, remove the safety and fire. Like I said, I would have seen him already.
    I am 6'1" and 250. I have had training and am no stranger to a decent street fight. I actually prefer giving pain to folks lie that on a personal level.
    Most folks walk around in a daze staring at the screen on the cell phone or rocking to an I pod. Meals on heels for the BG douche bags. They tend to strike the softer targets.

    i can't argue with you about seeing him before he got that close. I guess in my pretend world he just appeared out of know where, for more detail perhaps he was crouched down behind another car or dumpster.

    I am aware of the 21 foot rule. I was getting more to, at which point does he cross your no fly zone?
     

    the1kidd03

    Grandmaster
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    5   0   0
    Jul 19, 2011
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    i can't argue with you about seeing him before he got that close. I guess in my pretend world he just appeared out of know where, for more detail perhaps he was crouched down behind another car or dumpster.

    I am aware of the 21 foot rule. I was getting more to, at which point does he cross your no fly zone?
    For me, it seems as though without the obvious "means" to do the harm if he was further than about 18 feet I think the situation could have been handled my merely turning, lifting the covering clothes in such a fashion that makes the weapon obvious and placing your hand on it. I see this as a "escalation of force" tactic. Had he seen the gun at this point he probably would have ran. If not then drawing the weapon ensures that he sees it, however it may or may not be necessary to point it at them yet. This just gives them an even better opportunity to identify that you are armed and willing to use it and the opportunity to run. If he still chooses to ignore and advances, then pointing at him, removing the safety, etc would be much more "feasible" of a reaction. Now, if he was within that 18 ft. +/- bubble, then you can skip steps as necessary depending on circumstances. This system simply ensures that you have taken all possible measures to "avoid" use of deadly force and if their attack persists, then it's hard to argue against your actions. The courts are going to want exactly that. They are going to want to know if you did EVERYTHING within your power to indicate to the attacker that you were armed and prepared to use deadly force prior to his engagement.

    Granted, in his information there is a serious lack of detail to be able to say yay or nay, but this is just a basic system I adhere to in the civilian world regarding firearms.
     
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