Example of what happens with illegal aliens

[Fletch]

How can they charge so little for the "same" work done ?

Easy ! Unlike the "average" American household , (1 generation under the roof ) they usually live together with multiple generations .

...

Living like this allows them to pool their money so the living expenses goes down and allows them money to send home .

In doing this , they wind up destroying the market for the rest of us who don't want to live with ALL of our relatives or work 3 jobs to make the same amount of money we used to make working one job .

I don't see this as a problem. As I stated upthread, I worked in Detroit for about 5 years, alongside (East) Indian and Chinese contract programmers who did pretty much exactly the same thing as me. One of them would get here through the process, start a business, and become an anchor. He'd rent a little house somewhere and start stacking the Apus or Changs in it like cordwood with work visas, and sell their programming services for $20k/year/programmer at a time when the market was rising through the $40 - 50k range and up.

It's what's known as a competitive advantage, and in this case it's a cultural competitive advantage. As a result of their culture, they don't mind being crammed into places to live. 5 people to a bedroom in America is still better than the houses they probably came from. We have a cultural disadvantage in that most Americans want some elbow room, and the "nuclear family" household is our cultural standard nowadays. So our COGS is considerably higher than a competing immigrant worker, and our price for labor is as well.

We therefore have to find other ways to distinguish ourselves in the field of competitors. I did it by offering demonstrably better work, easier communication (since English is my first language), and a higher standard of quality. As a result I was able to maintain the lifestyle to which I'm culturally inclined, instead of moving into the modern equivalent of a boarding house. Cheap foreign labor forced me to become better at what I do.

Maybe there isn't enough room for differentiating one tile job from another to make that kind of distinction; I don't know, I'm not a tile guy. But I've seen some good tile jobs and some really really awful ones, so I'm inclined to believe that if Jose and Jorge are doing top-end work, maybe their prices more accurately reflect what the job is worth. If they're not, then there is room for differentiation.

Just to be clear, when I address this, I am not talking about their advantages that result from working illegally, only their cultural advantages. I'm in full agreement that the tax situation should be the same all around.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

It's what's known as a competitive advantage, and in this case it's a cultural competitive advantage. .

Why the EFF should I have to change my standard of living , historical and cultural practices to accommodate some illegal bastard that shouldn't be here in the first place ???

Again , in construction work the customers DO NOT benefit by getting lower prices .

The GC's do by not having to pay an American wages , they get to pay pedro a little more than what he makes in mexico . Factor in all the rest of the benefits of being this country , pedro is happy to be here .

 

[Fletch]

Why the EFF should I have to change my standard of living , historical and cultural practices to accommodate some illegal bastard that shouldn't be here in the first place ???

Again , in construction work the customers DO NOT benefit by getting lower prices .

The GC's do by not having to pay an American wages , they get to pay pedro a little more than what he makes in mexico . Factor in all the rest of the benefits of being this country , pedro is happy to be here .

Again, my response is stated with regard to the competitive cultural advantage, not the advantages of illegal labor. It may be that if Pedro were paying taxes like you, his costs would rise to the point where he charges $2/foot against your $4.50/foot, but he still seriously undercuts you due to his cultural advantage.

I have already agreed that a competing worker's illegal advantage is a problem, but I maintain that I find nothing wrong with his cultural advantage. How much of the $3.50/foot price difference each confers would be an interesting area of inquiry. As I stated in my experience, cultural advantage turned into about a 50% price advantage -- they were underselling me by half. If that were to apply to your situation, Jose and Pedro could be completely legal and charging $2.25/foot, at which point I'd have to say there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[ElsiePeaRN]

Cheap foreign labor forced me to become better at what I do.

Why the EFF should I have to change my standard of living , historical and cultural practices to accommodate some illegal bastard that shouldn't be here in the first place ???

I don't see anyone suggesting that, just offering an explanation for how it happens. I think a good answer is in Fletch's comment above. Be better at what you do and people won't mind paying more.

When I lived in SoCal, we moved into a house that had a LOT of expensive landscaping, including many different kinds of palm trees. I knew NOTHING about caring for them, so we went hunting for a gardener. We interviewed two guys. One spoke very poor English and his price was very good. The other guy, An American who did not speak with any kind of accent, charged considerably more.

The American guy did a CRAPPY job. Showed up when he felt like it and we lost some beautiful plants. The trees starting looking like crap. I fired the guy and called Pedro. I never asked about his citizen status. I figured that was his business. Within a month, he had my yard looking absolutely gorgeous and I would have paid him twice what he charged. I decided to pay him more than he asked-- exactly what the American guy had charged me to eff up my yard.

The fact is, people want good work at a good price. If you have to charge more, just be WORTH it.

Is anyone here actually suggesting that I should have stayed with the American, and paid him more to do worse work because I was uncertain of Pedro's citizenship or visa?

 

[hornadylnl]

Is anyone here actually suggesting that I should have stayed with the American, and paid him more to do worse work because I was uncertain of Pedro's citizenship or visa?

Why not? That's what we're told to do when it comes to purchasing a car.

 

[BarryJaxon]

"Is anyone here actually suggesting that I should have stayed with the American, and paid him more to do worse work because I was uncertain of Pedro's citizenship or visa?"


No,you fire his ass and look for an american,since by your admission your still paying a higher rate...Maybe when the Spanish speaking start taking over the hosp. and medical field,you`ll get it.Sounds like my brother...and he`s an admin. at Comm. N.Prejudice,maybe,but until people wake up maybe that`s what`s needed.

 

[Fletch]

"Is anyone here actually suggesting that I should have stayed with the American, and paid him more to do worse work because I was uncertain of Pedro's citizenship or visa?"

No,you fire his ass and look for an american,since by your admission your still paying a higher rate...Maybe when the Spanish start taking over the hosp. and medical field,you`ll get it.

Or maybe she'll have the same reaction I've had, given that we're nominally on the same "side". And perhaps you haven't noticed, but the Hispanic doctors will need to get in line behind the Chinese and Indians who are pouring into the field, and have been for decades.

Incidentally, I'm shopping for a doctor. My biggest requirement? Speak unaccented English. Not because I'm racist, but because my health is too important to risk miscommunications because I don't do well with accents -- it might fly for taking care of my palm trees, but not my heart, for example. So right there we've got a means of differentiation if one becomes necessary for competition.

 

[ElsiePeaRN]

No,you fire his ass and look for an american.

Why? When Pedro came highy recommended and the others cost so much more? I don't even know that he was illegal. I wonder--If I had asked, and he said he was legal, do you still think I should go with someone who doesn't speak with an accent?

The fact is, the guy whose ass I did fire was one of only three "American" guys I found in my area that did that kind of work. The other two were very expensive and reported as being kind of lazy "blow and go guys" as they said. Not worth paying higher prices for less quantity and quality of work. The American that I hired charged less than them and had a recommendation from someone with much simpler needs. There were about five Mexican guys who were recommended though-- "Hard workers, reliable, knowledgeable." Pedro was the top of the heap. I was actually lucky he had time to do my yard because he was so in demand due to the quality of his work.

Maybe when the Spanish start taking over the hosp. and medical field,you`ll get it.Sounds like my brother...and he`s an admin. at Comm. N.Prejudice***maybe,but until people wake up maybe that`s what`s needed.

Most of the nurses I worked with in the hospital were actually recruited from the Phillipines because there were so few Americans wanting to go to nursing school and work the night shift. They had trouble finding people to work on the housekeeping staff, and most of the folks on the housekeeping staff spoke Spanish as a first language.

I'm not quite sure what I'm supposed to wake up to. I am not naive about this, just have a different opinion.

 

[jeremy]

Is anyone here actually suggesting that I should have stayed with the American, and paid him more to do worse work because I was uncertain of Pedro's citizenship or visa?

Actually I personally feel you should have been Jailed for aiding a Criminal...

 

[BarryJaxon]

Actually I personally feel you should have been Jailed for aiding a Criminal...

 

[BarryJaxon]

Or maybe she'll have the same reaction I've had, given that we're nominally on the same "side". And perhaps you haven't noticed, but the Hispanic doctors will need to get in line behind the Chinese and Indians who are pouring into the field, and have been for decades.

Incidentally, I'm shopping for a doctor. My biggest requirement? Speak unaccented English. Not because I'm racist, but because my health is too important to risk miscommunications because I don't do well with accents -- it might fly for taking care of my palm trees, but not my heart, for example. So right there we've got a means of differentiation if one becomes necessary for competition.

Well I guess I`m glad for a change I still live in small town,Indiana.

 

[gunman41mag]

Actually I personally feel you should have been Jailed for aiding a Criminal...

jeremy is right, if nobody would hired illegals, they won't be coming here, but the greed of saving a couple of dollars, you have sold out all AMERICANS that are here LEGALLY

 

[Fletch]

jeremy is right, if nobody would hired illegals, they won't be coming here, but the greed of saving a couple of dollars, you have sold out all AMERICANS that are here LEGALLY

And by "Americans" you mean "white people", of course, since all Hispanics are illegal until proven otherwise beyond a shadow of a doubt. And probably not even then.

 

[Lead Head]

The "banhammer" ?

Getting "banned" ?

Come on now. I've said all kinds of things on this forum, respectfully of course, but getting "banned" for basic free speech is ridiculous. I say what I want which is usually grounded on enough facts for it to stand on its own. If they "ban" me, then **** 'em. It's just the internet, not real life.

11.2 MILLION ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS "estimated" to be in the US. Probably more.

Number of Illegal Immigrants in US Steady at 11.2M | CNSnews.com

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION will eventually turn this country into another third world nation with a few ultra wealthy people running the show. It's intentional.

The invasion (yes I said INVASION) of illegals into this country is being allowed by the government, past, present and likely the future. This includes the dumbicrats and the republicants.

The midwest is really just now waking up. Other parts of the country are drowning in it. I've been around. It's really THAT bad !

The liberal media hides it most of the time.

Why is this happening ? Greed (money, power, etc.) is the root cause but the intended effect is the destruction of the working class which was a solid portion of the middle class.

Why ? The middle class had power and a near universal voice. It frighten the powers that be so what better way than to allow dirt cheap labor to come in and bring us down.

Our country (as we know it) is dying.

You can write, vote, protest, ***** on forums, etc. and keep trying but the damage already seems too deep.

It will take a few more generations to finally have enough. By then, it will be too late. Maybe I should say it this way.

Is it too late ?

 

[gunman41mag]

And by "Americans" you mean "white people", of course, since all Hispanics are illegal until proven otherwise beyond a shadow of a doubt. And probably not even then.

I never said white people. I said all "LEGAL AMERICAN", I don't care where they came from as long as they are L E G A L

 

[Fletch]

I never said white people. I said all "LEGAL AMERICAN", I don't care where they came from as long as they are L E G A L

Yes, but on the basis of the following pieces of information:

1: a guy named Pedro
2: who doesn't speak much English and
3: charges less than the local white guys,

you and Jeremy are going to assume that he's illegal until proven otherwise. Tell me how else that's supposed to play.

 

[Fletch]

Why is this happening ? Greed (money, power, etc.) is the root cause but the intended effect is the destruction of the working class which was a solid portion of the middle class.

Why ? The middle class had power and a near universal voice. It frighten the powers that be so what better way than to allow dirt cheap labor to come in and bring us down.

Illegal immigration can be completely explained by market forces. A conspiracy is utterly unnecessary.

 

[BarryJaxon]

"Tell me how else that's supposed to play."

I can live with that!

 

[gunman41mag]

Yes, but on the basis of the following pieces of information:

1: a guy named Pedro
2: who doesn't speak much English and
3: charges less than the local white guys,

you and Jeremy are going to assume that he's illegal until proven otherwise. Tell me how else that's supposed to play.

Fletch, Que pasa My wife is CUBAN, & she is a U.S. CITIZEN, she is here legally. We should only hired legal AMERICANS don't care the color of their skin, hair, or the car they drive.

 

[Lead Head]

The majority of illegal immigrants (aliens) in the US are in fact Hispanic.

The "majority" related to this topic will always be the focus and it has nothing to do with racism.

If it were the Russians, then we would be pitching a fit about them.

Sure there are a variety of other nationalities that are illegal and for now, they are slipping under the radar. Some might even be terrorists.

Will I get "banned" for saying TERRORISTS ?

How 'bout Hypocritisizer.....

Will big brother or big sis wire tap me ? **** them too. I'm tired of it.

FEAR, FEAR, FEAR !

Remember that September 911 thingy ?

It woke us up to a big problem which led to the overall problem with illegals of ALL kinds. The problem was already here, we just had our heads up our careers like good little working class robots looking for the American Dream.

Now where was I ?

Mexican people in general (the majority) seem to be friendly decent people but it's NOT ABOUT THAT !

Why is it so hard to understand ILLEGAL and LEGAL ????????

ARGGGGGG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!