As much fun as a PCC is to shoot, trying to figure out where it fits in.

[woowoo2]

For me it was an easy decision.
I don't own anything in 2.23/5.56 but I do own a compatible pistol, lots of mags, and ammo.

 

[profjeremy]

Advantages of a PCC:
#1 A PCC platform is easier to use and learn on for most people compared to handgun. In my mind, it makes sense to step up to this from a Ruger 10/22 when teaching new shooters due to it being less "intimidating" than say an AR15.

#2 Gun control. Should gun control laws ever pass, PCCs would be harder write out of existence than AR15s.

#3 9mm is affordable compared to most other calibers yet has enough power to be a good defensive option.

#4 PCCs are compact and easier to handle compared to an M1A or bolt action rifle.

#5 Simplicity. In terms of civil unrest, if you could only have 2-3 weapons, what would you choose? A handgun, rifle, or shotgun requiring three different types of magazines and ammunition? Or, a handgun and a PCC requiring one type of magazine and ammunition?

This post makes other excellent points, but to me the one that hasn't been mentioned by anyone else is #2. Whenever you hear about gun control, AR-15s get mentioned more often than anything else. I'm not a legal expert by any means, but another angle that the ATF seems to be closing in on is guns shooting rifle calibers out of less than 16" barrels (making them AOW and requiring registration and tax stamps). Anything with a barrel of less than 16" and shooting a pistol caliber would seem to be outside of their short-term focus.

For home defense, and based on totally non-scientific hunting experience as a kid (and not the science of muzzle energy, etc.), I tend to believe that a bigger hole is what translates to "stopping power" for animals. If I'm betting my life in a home defense situation, I would rather make a hole with a 10mm bullet than with a 5.56mm bullet.

Agreeing with #4 above (plus adding the dear ol' AR-15), I also don't want a rifle for home defense. So if we're talking about shorter barrels, then I'd rather have a braced pistol in an actual pistol caliber than a handgun for reason #1 (and #2) mentioned above. No matter how good I get with my handguns, I'm always better with my braced pistols.

To me, the idea of sharing magazines, etc. is a nice economic bonus, but ultimately irrelevant if you can afford having multiple guns with unique magazines. However, I do try to limit the calibers in which I'm invested, as I've spent many times more money on ammo than magazines over my lifetime. I feel good about the calibers that I own covering the utility spectrum and for me, I don't have a need for .223/5.56. Not hating on anyone that does, just saying that I prefer my 10mm "PCC"/braced pistol/PDW as a home defense tool over an AR-15 and don't view them as simply "range toys", even though they are a lot of fun at the range!

 

[Route 45]

If you use Varmint Bullets in 556, 6.5 Grendel or 300 Blackout they won't over penetrate.

5.56 will penetrate your eardrums, if you use it indoors.

I've got boxes and boxes of 9mm Glock mags, perhaps the most common pistol mag in the United States. And most of my pistols are 9mm.
A better question for me is why wouldn't I own a handy little carbine that takes the same mags and ammo?

9mm +P out of a carbine can approach 4 inch 357 magnum velocity. No rifle round, but no weak sister, either. Plenty of men in the dirt, both good and bad, who won't argue 9mm effectiveness.

 

[bwframe]

Plenty of gang bangers out there that brag about all of the 9mm holes. Very few brag about their rifle caliber holes.

No reason to overrun the forum with gnarly pics, but there's a pic of the rifle vs pistol effectiveness in this other PCC thread...

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo.../486618-pcc-way-go-2.html?486618=#post8534255

 

[Route 45]

Plenty of gang bangers out there that brag about all of the 9mm holes. Very few brag about their rifle caliber holes.

No reason to overrun the forum with gnarly pics, but there's a pic of the rifle vs pistol effectiveness in this other PCC thread...

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo.../486618-pcc-way-go-2.html?486618=#post8534255

Wound severity notwithstanding, the rest of your post is complete and utter bull****.

I've stepped over plenty of bodies at crime scenes who were DRT with 9mm holes.

None of them were bragging.

 

[foszoe]

Advantages of a PCC:
#1 A PCC platform is easier to use and learn on for most people compared to handgun. In my mind, it makes sense to step up to this from a Ruger 10/22 when teaching new shooters due to it being less "intimidating" than say an AR15.

#2 Gun control. Should gun control laws ever pass, PCCs would be harder write out of existence than AR15s.

#3 9mm is affordable compared to most other calibers yet has enough power to be a good defensive option.

#4 PCCs are compact and easier to handle compared to an M1A or bolt action rifle.

#5 Simplicity. In terms of civil unrest, if you could only have 2-3 weapons, what would you choose? A handgun, rifle, or shotgun requiring three different types of magazines and ammunition? Or, a handgun and a PCC requiring one type of magazine and ammunition?

And the PCC stock makes a great place to carry 2 more mags

 

[bwframe]

Wound severity notwithstanding, the rest of your post is complete and utter bull****.


I've stepped over plenty of bodies at crime scenes who were DRT with 9mm holes.


None of them were bragging.

Right, centerpunch CNS hits work pretty well with most any caliber or platform. Bullet effectiveness matters more as accuracy slips out to the edges.

 

[2A_Tom]

Right, centerpunch CNS hits work pretty well with most any caliber or platform. Bullet effectiveness matters more as accuracy slips out to the edges.

?

I never want to be shot, but, I think a flesh wound with a .223 would be less damaging than the same with a .45 hollow point.

EDIT: I had forgotten about that picture.

A 9mm hollow point might measure up to that.

 

[Route 45]

Right, centerpunch CNS hits work pretty well with most any caliber or platform. Bullet effectiveness matters more as accuracy slips out to the edges.

The picture you referenced shows some gnarly arm damage, yet the bad guy didn't even drop his Glock and ran away screaming for a medic, like his lifetime sitting in front of a video game taught him to do.

Lesson: Humans are resilient, regardless of ballistics. Keep firing, dammit.

 

[bwframe]

The picture you referenced shows some gnarly arm damage, yet the bad guy didn't even drop his Glock and ran away screaming for a medic, like his lifetime sitting in front of a video game taught him to do.


Lesson: Humans are resilient, regardless of ballistics. Keep firing, dammit.

Exactly. The fight was over for the guy in the pic.

May not have been the case with a pistol caliber hit in the same spot?

 

[DadSmith]

5.56 will penetrate your eardrums, if you use it indoors.

I've got boxes and boxes of 9mm Glock mags, perhaps the most common pistol mag in the United States. And most of my pistols are 9mm.
A better question for me is why wouldn't I own a handy little carbine that takes the same mags and ammo?

9mm +P out of a carbine can approach 4 inch 357 magnum velocity. No rifle round, but no weak sister, either. Plenty of men in the dirt, both good and bad, who won't argue 9mm effectiveness.

I'm pointing out that those calibers with the right bullet won't over penetrate. Iirc I seen a 55gr sp stop in ballistic gel at 14" so it doesn't have to be a Varmint Bullet just anything that expands quickly.

 

[Route 45]

Exactly. The fight was over for the guy in the pic.

May not have been the case with a pistol caliber hit in the same spot?

It was over because he decided it was over, not because the shot stopped him. Impossible to say what he would have done with another caliber. I suppose if he had wings, he might have flown away.

I wonder if he's bragging about his rifle hole.

 

[Route 45]

I'm pointing out that those calibers with the right bullet won't over penetrate. Iirc I seen a 55gr sp stop in ballistic gel at 14" so it doesn't have to be a Varmint Bullet just anything that expands quickly.

I know. I was just pointing out that an AR in the living room is loud AF, especially if it's an SBR or braced pistol.

 

[mmpsteve]

Fun, is a purpose of course, but really trying to figure out where a PCC fits in with my other guns.

Perhaps that's the point, it doesn't.

I think the most common purpose I hear outside of fun and range games is HD.

Thoughts? Where did you land on PCCs?

I landed on: I like them ALL !! And I don't feel undergunned with a good PCC. I have lever actions with 16" barrels in 327, 357 and 44 magnum. I have Marlin Camp 9's and the Ruger PC9. My latest fancy, though, is the AR pistols in 9mm and 10mm.

The CMMG's with the rotating bolt shoot softer than the direct blowback types, and with a good red dot and weapon light, it's a more effective platform (for me) for HD than a pistol or 223, without blowing my eardrums. The 10mm Banshee with the 8" barrel, in particular, I feel is a pretty good intermediate weapon that could put a lot of lead downrange very fast to good effect. 30 rounds of 180 grain hollow point at 1500 fps of controllable fire is nothing to sneeze at, even out to 100 yards, but I don't really anticipate that need for defensive purposes.

All the platforms have their strengths and weaknesses. I have pistols and .223's of course. The good news is that we have lots of choices, for now. One thing I do lack is a cheap boat, for when the inevitable comes to pass .

.

 

[Restroyer]

My son (he is 19yrs.old) always points out to people who disregard the 9mm as weak the story of Finnish war hero Viljam Pylkas who singlehandedly in WWII killed 83 Russians in one battle with an automatic Suomi (an SMG that fires 9mm).
Finnish Forces - The real life "Rokka" of the "Unknown Soldier"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suomi_KP/-31
Not the exact same as a PCC but still uses 9mm.

 

[Tombs]

I can understand why people view them as range toys and nothing more, but for people who live in suburban or urban environments with close neighbors, it doesn't make sense to run 5.56 always. A PCC will give you the accuracy and ease of use of a small rifle at short range and not risk overpenetration.

9mm will go through FAR more interior walls and hard barriers than a 5.56 will.

Ask the navy, who dropped using the 9mm sub guns on ships because of the hazard it was to everyone. They switched to a special 5.56 round with reduced ricochet chances.

I know. I was just pointing out that an AR in the living room is loud AF, especially if it's an SBR or braced pistol.

It is, but how often are you shooting intruders for it to be a serious problem?
I can see this being a consideration for special forces, but not for home defense. And a suppressor isn't THAT expensive if you already have bought multiple guns.

 

[Twangbanger]

The primary benefit I see to the PCC is that the people who have them (prior to the ammo scare, anyway) seem to be shooting them. They're going to matches, measuring their ability against others, testing themselves and getting better.

Contrasted with the number of 5.56s you see which get built, fire a couple mags...then get sold to fund another project.

Skill is the most important thing you can invest in. For some reason, the PCCs are getting shot, most of the 5.56s are not. Or at least, not very much.

 

[Route 45]

It is, but how often are you shooting intruders for it to be a serious problem?
I can see this being a consideration for special forces, but not for home defense. And a suppressor isn't THAT expensive if you already have bought multiple guns.

If the metric is how many intruders we're shooting, then this whole discussion is moot and we can all sell our guns. Maybe the discussion is more along the lines of preparation for such an event.

A $550 PCC (before the panic) that takes mags and ammo that you already own, and may even match your EDC pistol, is a much more attractive option for a lot of people than a $700 braced AR pistol, plus a $500 suppressor, plus another $200 and a long wait for a tax stamp. Frangible pistol ammo is also available, if over-penetration is a concern.

 

[TolusD]

If the metric is how many intruders we're shooting, then this whole discussion is moot and we can all sell our guns. Maybe the discussion is more along the lines of preparation for such an event.

This is where I was waiting for this thread to go and maybe it necessitates its own thread, but I read here all the time and I'm often left in complete awe at the things that normal people living in small, unassuming, normal places seem to be readying themselves for. So that said, if you think you're likely to end up in a situation where your only way out is a firearm? What does that scenario look like and how did the particulars of your life lead to that scenario playing out? Then lastly, what's your plan?

We can all post mall ninja fantasies in here all day long but without real world context that's all they are.

 

[Karl-just-Karl]

We can all post mall ninja fantasies in here all day long but without real world context that's all they are.

Haven't we all been there at one time or another?



It's just not wise to live there.