As much fun as a PCC is to shoot, trying to figure out where it fits in.

[Tombs]

If the metric is how many intruders we're shooting, then this whole discussion is moot and we can all sell our guns. Maybe the discussion is more along the lines of preparation for such an event.

A $550 PCC (before the panic) that takes mags and ammo that you already own, and may even match your EDC pistol, is a much more attractive option for a lot of people than a $700 braced AR pistol, plus a $500 suppressor, plus another $200 and a long wait for a tax stamp. Frangible pistol ammo is also available, if over-penetration is a concern.

You're going a bit over the top over my comment.

I'm simply saying, if you had to shoot a 10.5" 5.56 AR indoors to save your life, some hearing damage is the least of your worries. Unless you plan on needing to do that on a regular basis, I don't think needing a hearing aid later in life is that big of a sacrifice compared to trying to use a far less competent firearm.

Of course I'd opt for 00 buck any day of the week over any of these options, and that's pretty easy on the ears.

 

[churchmouse]

This is where I was waiting for this thread to go and maybe it necessitates its own thread, but I read here all the time and I'm often left in complete awe at the things that normal people living in small, unassuming, normal places seem to be readying themselves for. So that said, if you think you're likely to end up in a situation where your only way out is a firearm? What does that scenario look like and how did the particulars of your life lead to that scenario playing out? Then lastly, what's your plan?

We can all post mall ninja fantasies in here all day long but without real world context that's all they are.

There is so much I would really love to say to you but that might best be done in person and not on the forum. Not sure what gated are you live in up in fishers but the reality's of living in the city are maybe just a bit different than yours are. What dream world do you live in. There have been home invasions and break ins all across the west side of indy. Speedway as well. The news () is worthless when it comes to covering all of this.
Now before you spout off that we should move etc that is not realistic for way to many as well.

That I may seem a bit harsh in my response your post is just.....well, you know......

 

[churchmouse]

I thought the same thing as you did. I think your answers were good. Some of these "regulars" want to judge others comments on how many INGO posts they have versus the quality of the post. Carry on.

Please dont go there anymore. It is just getting old.

Please.

 

[Karl-just-Karl]

This is the question that I'm curious about because I think we all have different answers that are related to how we think of things like PCCs. What's your personal worst case scenario?

My worst case scenario, as several others have already said is a home invasion. Honestly, where I live, the most likely would be a couple of teenagers that weren't expecting me to be at home.

I don't really wish to see anything worse than that. If they could be held at gunpoint and detained until the police arrive, or they flee when directly confronted would be fine by me. I do not wish for violence but I will not run from it. I will not cower if someone seeks to do me harm.

You can accuse people of being mall ninjas if you want, I see it. I know what you are getting at. But don't believe that all the people you are accusing should be pushed into that camp. The bluster might contain fantasy, but the resolve is real.

 

[2A_Tom]

Very well stated Karl.

I have not seen (maybe I have missed it) the member mall ninjas posturing in the PCC threads. I follow them, as it is something I am interested in. Most of them are rather informative of options available.

I personally recommend a Glock 17 or 19 and a Ruger PCC to people that ask about personal defense. This may be because of personal preference, because I am not a fan of the AR platform.

DISCLAIMER: I am for you having all o of the AR's, AK's, pistols or long guns that you can afford. (it is your money) It is just not my favorite platform.

 

[TolusD]

There is so much I would really love to say to you but that might best be done in person and not on the forum. Not sure what gated are you live in up in fishers but the reality's of living in the city are maybe just a bit different than yours are. What dream world do you live in. There have been home invasions and break ins all across the west side of indy. Speedway as well. The news () is worthless when it comes to covering all of this.
Now before you spout off that we should move etc that is not realistic for way to many as well.

That I may seem a bit harsh in my response your post is just.....well, you know......

It seems like you've already made all the judgements about who I am and where I came from that you're interested in "knowing". I think your response says a lot more about you than it does about me and I think it says a lot about this site that you're a mod here. I'm relatively new here and I thought that I would find a bunch of gun guys from all walks of life who wanted to talk about guns and gun stuff. But instead I only found a handful of people like that and am somehow surprised that there are just as many who are only looking for a safe, anonymous, consequence free place to vent their impotent rage at strangers. The rest of the internet is already like that so you can keep your safe place here where you're in charge of something all to yourself.

 

[2A_Tom]

You need to breathe, deeply in through your nose and gently out through your mouth.

Rookie will miss him.

 

[Twangbanger]

You're going a bit over the top over my comment.

I'm simply saying, if you had to shoot a 10.5" 5.56 AR indoors to save your life, some hearing damage is the least of your worries. Unless you plan on needing to do that on a regular basis, I don't think needing a hearing aid later in life is that big of a sacrifice compared to trying to use a far less competent firearm.

Of course I'd opt for 00 buck any day of the week over any of these options, and that's pretty easy on the ears.

Hey! I just realized, we're both outside the politics forum...simultaneously! Lol...

But seriously, there is absolutely nothing larger than 22LR that is "easy on the ears," fired inside a building. No shotgun rounds fall in that category. Speaking from my own experience, they will all leave you with an "artifact" in your hearing. But there is a difference between something which leaves you with a ring that goes away after a while, and permanent, debilitating damage that can prevent you from doing certain jobs, for example.

When you've killed a variety of different-sized animals with a variety of different-sized calibers, the perspective you're left with after it all, is: shot placement, shot placement, shot placement. That determines everything about what damage a mammal is going to be capable of doing, in the moments after being ventilated.

Without getting into the rabbit hole of what others should use, I will not be personally capping off any unsuppressed 5.56 inside a building without hearing protection. I gather that a lot of others won't, either, which is why I see so much interest in suppressors, 300 blackout, etc.

Incidentally, I hope none of the "PCCs are far less effective" crowd were any of the same folks who were/are on the suppressed 300 blackout bandwagon. Because subsonic 300 blackout is stepped down to a power level that is mostly the same as a hot 40 S&W fired out of a full size handgun. ("Blah, blah, blah, my custom-loaded 300 loads will do _this_...")

There, I have stoked the fire. Carry on...

 

[Route 45]

It seems like you've already made all the judgements about who I am and where I came from that you're interested in "knowing". I think your response says a lot more about you than it does about me and I think it says a lot about this site that you're a mod here. I'm relatively new here and I thought that I would find a bunch of gun guys from all walks of life who wanted to talk about guns and gun stuff. But instead I only found a handful of people like that and am somehow surprised that there are just as many who are only looking for a safe, anonymous, consequence free place to vent their impotent rage at strangers. The rest of the internet is already like that so you can keep your safe place here where you're in charge of something all to yourself.

 

[2A_Tom]

PDW combo

 

[mmpsteve]

PDW combo

Tom, I'm gonna admit my ignorance in that I do not know what that is, but the mall ninja in me says, that is just butt ugly!

.

 

[bwframe]

It seems like you've already made all the judgements about who I am and where I came from that you're interested in "knowing". I think your response says a lot more about you than it does about me and I think it says a lot about this site that you're a mod here. I'm relatively new here and I thought that I would find a bunch of gun guys from all walks of life who wanted to talk about guns and gun stuff. But instead I only found a handful of people like that and am somehow surprised that there are just as many who are only looking for a safe, anonymous, consequence free place to vent their impotent rage at strangers. The rest of the internet is already like that so you can keep your safe place here where you're in charge of something all to yourself.

 

[2A_Tom]

Tom, I'm gonna admit my ignorance in that I do not know what that is, but the mall ninja in me says, that is just butt ugly!

.

It is a FN P90 and a 5.7 pistol. They both take the 5.7x 25 round. They were designed for support troops in rear areas.

The P90 has a 50 round magazine and the pistol holds 20+1.

They are used extensively in the SIFI series SG1.

 

[2A_Tom]

Here is something to go with the P90

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/handguns/490172-keltec-goes-5-7-pistol-p90-magazines.html

 

[Sniper 79]

I felt the same way until actually spending some range time on one. Less muzzle blast, more velocity in some cases, far more accurate than a pistol, able to reach out farther, small, portable, lightweight, list goes on.......love them!

 

[Chewie]

It seems like you've already made all the judgements about who I am and where I came from that you're interested in "knowing". I think your response says a lot more about you than it does about me and I think it says a lot about this site that you're a mod here. I'm relatively new here and I thought that I would find a bunch of gun guys from all walks of life who wanted to talk about guns and gun stuff. But instead I only found a handful of people like that and am somehow surprised that there are just as many who are only looking for a safe, anonymous, consequence free place to vent their impotent rage at strangers. The rest of the internet is already like that so you can keep your safe place here where you're in charge of something all to yourself.

A little thin skinned aren't we? Did you venture into any of the political "discussion" threads? The "to mask or not to mask" thread? Now those were full of heated discussion and name calling! And most everyone knows everyone! You need to lighten up and accept the opinion of others as just what they aren't opinions. Have a very merry Christmas and a happy new year.

 

[DadSmith]

Hey! I just realized, we're both outside the politics forum...simultaneously! Lol...

But seriously, there is absolutely nothing larger than 22LR that is "easy on the ears," fired inside a building. No shotgun rounds fall in that category. Speaking from my own experience, they will all leave you with an "artifact" in your hearing. But there is a difference between something which leaves you with a ring that goes away after a while, and permanent, debilitating damage that can prevent you from doing certain jobs, for example.

When you've killed a variety of different-sized animals with a variety of different-sized calibers, the perspective you're left with after it all, is: shot placement, shot placement, shot placement. That determines everything about what damage a mammal is going to be capable of doing, in the moments after being ventilated.

Without getting into the rabbit hole of what others should use, I will not be personally capping off any unsuppressed 5.56 inside a building without hearing protection. I gather that a lot of others won't, either, which is why I see so much interest in suppressors, 300 blackout, etc.

Incidentally, I hope none of the "PCCs are far less effective" crowd were any of the same folks who were/are on the suppressed 300 blackout bandwagon. Because subsonic 300 blackout is stepped down to a power level that is mostly the same as a hot 40 S&W fired out of a full size handgun. ("Blah, blah, blah, my custom-loaded 300 loads will do _this_...")

There, I have stoked the fire. Carry on...

22lr pistol or revolvers or short barrel 22lr are pretty loud outside i imagine they are much worse inside where the sound just bounces around the walls.

A 22 pistol like a Ruger SR22 is 157 decibels
A Glock 17 is 162 decibels.
A 16" AR 15 5.56 is 165 decibels.

Does 8 decibels really matter inside a home?

 

[mmpsteve]

22lr pistol or revolvers or short barrel 22lr are pretty loud outside i imagine they are much worse inside where the sound just bounces around the walls.

A 22 pistol like a Ruger SR22 is 157 decibels
A Glock 17 is 162 decibels.
A 16" AR 15 5.56 is 165 decibels.

Does 8 decibels really matter inside a home?

I can't answer your question directly, but I do know decibel is not a linear scale. 8 decibels difference can be a lot. This is a paste from a science article I just googlefoo(d):

A typical conversation clocks in at around 60 dB. But a rock concert would be closer to 120 dB. In terms of intensity, the rock concert is 1,000,000 times louder than the conversation. That level of racket can put people at risk of hearing loss.


.

 

[cbhausen]

Each decibel increase is twice as loud as the previous. I believe that makes it a logarithmic scale but it’s been a while since I cracked a math book.

 

[DadSmith]

Each decibel increase is twice as loud as the previous. I believe that makes it a logarithmic scale but it’s been a while since I cracked a math book.

308 is 167 decibels. And with a good suppressor 133 decibels. So its still louder than a Rock Concert with a suppressor on it. NFA needs to go bye bye. It was made law by a bunch of men that have no clue about suppressors.

You would still need hearing protection with suppressors on high power rifles.