.380 Mouse Gun...Or Powerful Stopper?

[firefighterjohn]

LCP is my EDC

Well, I carry a G19 &/or G26 &/or LCR357 or 38.

That being said, I'd rather have my LCP in my pocket than my Glock left at home.

Good HP ammo and a spare mag for your 380 & you should be okay in most situations.

That's my situation exactly. the LCP is my EDC and it's gotten so comfortable I don't even know it's there. Also carry a spare mag in the other pocket. If I can't defend myself or my family with 13 rounds of .380??? Hope that situation never comes up but the LCP is with me always just in case.

 

[BigMoose]

380ACP has had a revival of sorts, but it could be waning. There are some 9MM guns now that are just as small and light as the 380ACP guns.

I have the caliber because I have an old military gun that fires it. (Beretta M1934).

That said there are now some 1911 style guns that fire 380ACP that are good if your used to carrying a 1911 and want something smaller.

 

[ru44mag]

All great opinions guys. Thanks for sharing your ideas. I thought the study interesting. And thought others might as well. My favorite round is the 44 mag. But neither of my Super Blackhawks get much carry time.

 

[VERT]

Keep in mind that .380 ACP/9mm Kurtz as a service cartridge in Europe was carried in what we would consider to be a mid sized gun. By this I mean that these .380 service pistols had barrels that were about 3.5" long. Many of a the micro, mouse guns that we carry around in our pocket are smaller then this. The end result is a shorter barrel, less bullet velocity, generally poor or no sights, and not much firearm to hang on to. This all translates into guns that are easy to carry but hard to shoot. It is all about trade offs. Personally I am not a fan of the little .380s and 9mm pistols. But that is my opinion and nothing more.

 

[cosermann]

If there is one thing I have learned over the years, is that research can be done by 10 different groups on the same topic, and they can come up with 10 different conclusions. Oh yea, and everybody has an opinion. …

• Not all research is created equal. The objective quality of research varies from crappy (that’s a technical term ) to very well done. Hence, not all research is of equal value. Frankly, much ends up being not worth the resources it took to accomplish.
• Opinions are much the same way – not all of equal value. Opinions vary from being well reasoned based on education, experience, and/or professional judgment, to being pulled out of someone’s psychotic delusion.

It's up to you to figure out which is which.

… the only thing that can stop a determined aggressor is shot placement followed by penetration. ...

Exactly. A bullet has to be aimed at the proper spot, AND it has to perform once it gets there. All this “shot placement is the only thing that matters” sentiment means nothing without adequate penetration. Consider the example of a 25 ACP with perfect placement that bounces off a leather jacket vs. a 9mm FMJ that hits the exact same spot and penetrates clean through. Very different results will ensue. Even with perfect placement, the bullet, at a minimum, must adequately penetrate the target to achieve the desired effect.

… It all comes down to personal choice in the great caliber debate. ...

Yes, yes it does. Choose wisely.

I am in the camp of "its (sic) better to carry a small gun than nothing." ...

Is it? Is it better if it’s carried with a false sense of its capability? Is it better if carrying it precludes more effective action? Is it better if it displaces a more effective tool? (Opportunity cost). Or, would it actually be better not to carry it at all?

On the face this statement seems self-evident to many, but if one starts poking at it a little – maybe not so much. This post explores the idea a bit more:
Nothing is Better than A Small Gun. Literally. | The Truth About GunsThe Truth About Guns

"Gun battles are gambles and winning gamblers have as much as possible in their hand when tossing chips in the pot. In picking a gun for a game you may HAVE to play when wishing you didn't try to pick a winner."

 

[BigMoose]

Keep in mind that .380 ACP/9mm Kurtz as a service cartridge in Europe was carried in what we would consider to be a mid sized gun. By this I mean that these .380 service pistols had barrels that were about 3.5" long. Many of a the micro, mouse guns that we carry around in our pocket are smaller then this. The end result is a shorter barrel, less bullet velocity, generally poor or no sights, and not much firearm to hang on to. This all translates into guns that are easy to carry but hard to shoot. It is all about trade offs. Personally I am not a fan of the little .380s and 9mm pistols. But that is my opinion and nothing more.

Yep, my Beretta is bigger then the typical guns chambered in 380ACP now a days

This holds 7+1

The PPK is still made in 380, and it's got the longer barrel too. The Bersa copy has a 3.5bll too.

Beretta makes 380 guns in model 84 that held 13 plus 1, 4 inch barrel no less

 

[marv]

My sig line on another forum is my opinion of .380ACP: "I know it's a mouse gun. A few .380's in the skull will ruin any mouse's day."

 

[edeekeos]

I would have ZERO issues carrying a little .380. Matter of fact, I'm in the market for a P238!

 

[88E30M50]

Keep in mind that .380 ACP/9mm Kurtz as a service cartridge in Europe was carried in what we would consider to be a mid sized gun. By this I mean that these .380 service pistols had barrels that were about 3.5" long. Many of a the micro, mouse guns that we carry around in our pocket are smaller then this. The end result is a shorter barrel, less bullet velocity, generally poor or no sights, and not much firearm to hang on to. This all translates into guns that are easy to carry but hard to shoot. It is all about trade offs. Personally I am not a fan of the little .380s and 9mm pistols. But that is my opinion and nothing more.

Those are some of the reasons I really like my Sig P238. It's locked breech design makes for a soft shooter when compared to either my Bersa .380 or PPK. Plus, it has a normal sized set of night sights and is really easy to shoot. It gives me everything I want in a pocket gun that is carried in places that don't allow carry. It's not my first choice of what to carry, but it's better than a sharp stick.

 

[ru44mag]

Those are some of the reasons I really like my Sig P238. It's locked breech design makes for a soft shooter when compared to either my Bersa .380 or PPK. Plus, it has a normal sized set of night sights and is really easy to shoot. It gives me everything I want in a pocket gun that is carried in places that don't allow carry. It's not my first choice of what to carry, but it's better than a sharp stick.

Better than a sharp stick. I like that. I know the limitations of a .380 and I know a 9 mm would do a much better job...and I've very seriously considered moving up to something with more punch. I even sold my little TCP last week. But I just really like my little LCP and like my P238 even more. Just bought a Colt Mustang mag for it and had to try it out. Works great! Now if I tried to tell you a .25 ACP was better than a sharp stick...I think 99% of INGO would rather carry the sharp stick.

 

[ru44mag]

• Not all research is created equal. The objective quality of research varies from crappy (that’s a technical term ) to very well done. Hence, not all research is of equal value. Frankly, much ends up being not worth the resources it took to accomplish.
• Opinions are much the same way – not all of equal value. Opinions vary from being well reasoned based on education, experience, and/or professional judgment, to being pulled out of someone’s psychotic delusion.

It's up to you to figure out which is which.

Exactly. A bullet has to be aimed at the proper spot, AND it has to perform once it gets there. All this “shot placement is the only thing that matters” sentiment means nothing without adequate penetration. Consider the example of a 25 ACP with perfect placement that bounces off a leather jacket vs. a 9mm FMJ that hits the exact same spot and penetrates clean through. Very different results will ensue. Even with perfect placement, the bullet, at a minimum, must adequately penetrate the target to achieve the desired effect.

Yes, yes it does. Choose wisely.

Is it? Is it better if it’s carried with a false sense of its capability? Is it better if carrying it precludes more effective action? Is it better if it displaces a more effective tool? (Opportunity cost). Or, would it actually be better not to carry it at all?

On the face this statement seems self-evident to many, but if one starts poking at it a little – maybe not so much. This post explores the idea a bit more:
Nothing is Better than A Small Gun. Literally. | The Truth About GunsThe Truth About Guns

"Gun battles are gambles and winning gamblers have as much as possible in their hand when tossing chips in the pot. In picking a gun for a game you may HAVE to play when wishing you didn't try to pick a winner."

I read the entire article including all posts after it. What sticks with me most, is, the best weapon is the one between your ears. And secondly, a lot of different opinions.

 

[Foxxwoof]

I was carrying a full size Zastave EZ9 for a while, and it was just too big to conceal unless I was wearing a coat, so I started looking for a smaller carry pistol. I was originally shopping for a 9x18 Makarov and couldn't find one anywhere for a price I wanted to pay. So I ended up with a Bersa T380 and it's now my EDC with CorBon 90gr JHP +P. Based on what I've read it has decent penetration (around 10.5"+/-) and velocity (~1050fps), but .380 is the smallest I think I would carry for defense.

 

[Eric05]

Just picked up a Ruger LC380. I do not usually OC so my M&P9 is a bit big to conceal at times. I wanted something different so I got the 380. I will use it as my pocket pistol and edc from now on. I have no problem with the 380 round for power.

 

[walleyepw]

My typical carry gun is a 9mm Kahr. Put depending upon the situation, I have a Keltec 32 acp. I don't carry my Glock 22 very often. But to me I would prefer the 9mm or 40 s&w. I believe what is important is that you are familiar with your firearm and profiecent with its use. My next purchase will likely be a NAA 22 mag.

 

[sliptap]

I read the entire article including all posts after it. What sticks with me most, is, the best weapon is the one between your ears. And secondly, a lot of different opinions.

So true.

Pick the largest caliber and gun that you are confident carrying and you can shoot well. Practice, practice, practice with it, then move on.

Another point is choose a gun that you will actually carry. I purchased a Glock 30 in .45 and sold it a few months later. After time I saw that it was too big and I would never carry it. A .22 in your hand is better than .XYZ caliber in the safe when you actually need it.

I pocket carry a P3AT in .380 a lot. I'll do anything I can to avoid escalating a situation first and -- if I have to protect myself -- put myself in the best position to do so. I'm confident if my Kel Tec is pulled, the receiver will probably not enjoy the finale.

The rest is just unnecessary BS.

 

[maxmayhem]

i have shot at 4 people with my 380 and it has never let me down....better to have the 380 in your pocket than a cell phone left at home...stopping power is overrated unless you are at a busy intersection ..380 is barely inadequate or not barely inadequate or something line that

 

[WC Deer Hunter]

Just picked up an LCP for my wife. She has no problem handling something bigger but she won't carry something that is a hassle so we settled on the LCP for it's size and weight which is almost unnoticeable that your even carrying it. It would do no good for her to have a pistol at home that she wouldn't carry with her.

After we got her the LCP I actually carried it a couple times in my pocket and think I'm gonna get me one to have for a BUG and when carrying my Glock 27 is not a good option. I would not feel under powered with a .380 by any means. And as far as recoil goes, a pocket .380 is much less recoil than a similarly sized pocket 9 at least in the ones I have compared but YMMV.

 

[Aaron1776]

A note on shot placement: since human targets are three-dimensional, It only matters if the round continues through the body to disrupt vital structures. If the round fails to do that, then you've only suceeded in making a hole in nothing important. If your goal is to shoot them in the heart, then shooting them in the tissue that is providing cover to their heart from your bullets isn't meeting that goal. Keep this in mind when talking about sub calibers and select your ammunition wisely.

THIS

Full disclosure: I used to carry a .380 round.

People can talk about ballistic gel tests with the .380 all they want, but I personally came to hate the .380 round for a variety of reasons.

First, it's a "sub caliber". As AD Marc pointed out, hitting the thorasic cavity doesn't mean a hill of beans if the round doesn't penetrate all of the way to the heart, lungs, etc. Working in an ER, I cannot tell you how many times I've seen the .380 round fail to penetrate. Is it some sort of inert dud round that never penetrates? Of course not. But it isn't exactly what I would call "reliable" either.

Secondly, the tiny platforms the .380 comes in turn it into a mouse gun. It's been my experience that the ****-poor sight radius, lightweight frames, little sights, etc give you a gun that has almost as much noise and recoil as a slightly larger 9mm platform (or the same size 9mm with a double spring) with none of the reliable penetration. Basically, it's hard to hit with small guns to begin with. Thus your shot placement is going to suck compared to a larger gun. Then when the bullet does strike its target it has a real chance of failing to penetrate as far as you need it too.

Third, the ammo is ridiculously over-priced for what you are getting in performance. You're talking about paying as much for .380 as you do .40. That's insanity.

Finally, as others have pointed out, you can get a 9mm in the same size range with marginally more recoil and a much better round.

Thus it has been classified as a totally usless caliber in my book.

 

[CitizenX]

This is interesting. Some of you may have seen this already.
Pocket Guns and Gear: 380 Auto FMJ Heavy Clothing Terminal Testing in Clear Gel

 

[dhw9am]

Let's See Here

OK, just my opinion, but I agree with those who like th 380.
First of all, where I live 380 ammo is now $1 a box CHEAPER than 9mm
It is also far more available than 9mm.
I carry a Bersa Thunder 380 with Corbon. I feel very secure, as the Bersa
is extremely reliable, and if I ever shot someone in the chest or stomach with it, I am sure they would not list it as a useless caliber.
I have read so many stories in the last year. where people have died because of a 22 caliber wound.
Shoot what you like, just CARRY it and practice as much as you can.
Like I said, just my opinion.