A Knife to Fight With

[iChokePeople]

Didn't mercop recommend a folder over a fixed blade for SD?

I don't know about Mercop, but a lot of people do. I think it's usually with the intent of using it as a blunt force weapon, closed, vs. as a blade, though. Valid, good reasoning, but I'd rather use a flashlight for that role. I've tested myself a LOT and found that I can't reliably deploy a folder (as a blade) under heavy pressure. Nobody I train with has ever been successful with deploying them reliably under heavy pressure, either.

 

[the1kidd03]

Didn't mercop recommend a folder over a fixed blade for SD?

In my experience folders are slower to use, not to mention that they can fail and close on you.

I thought he recommended a folder where fixed blades aren't a suitable choice.

 

[lovemachine]

In my experience folders are slower to use, not to mention that they can fail and close on you.

mercop is th man to talk to about knives, blunt objects and fighting.

 

[the1kidd03]

I don't know about Mercop, but a lot of people do. I think it's usually with the intent of using it as a blunt force weapon, closed, vs. as a blade, though. I'd rather use a flashlight for that role. I've tested myself a LOT and found that I can't reliably deploy a folder (as a blade) under heavy pressure. Nobody I train with has ever been successful with deploying them reliably under heavy pressure, either.

Exactly why I choose fixed...

 

[Sylvain]

I thought he recommended a folder where fixed blades aren't a suitable choice.

I would use my folder as a backup, if im not already carrying a second fixed blade as my backup to my first fixed blade.

 

[Raskolnikov]

I must chime in. This is a very interesting thread. I suppose I will have a Ka-Bar TDI within the month. I did a bit of research on it, and I found this video, which may interest some:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZivRcSnPyw

Until today, I was unaware that Ka-Bar was owned by Cutco. Cutco makes great kitchen knives. My brother used to sell them, and my mother has had the same set for over 20 years. I have a Ka-Bar military knife (I believe that it is the Army model, which was made for troops in Afghanistan and Iraq). I've had it for 6 years now, and it looks the same as when I purchased it. Very pleased with that purchase, although it is much too large for EDC.

 

[the1kidd03]

I would use my folder as a backup, if im not already carrying a second fixed blade as my backup to my first fixed blade.

Yeah, I always have a general purpose/utility folder on me. Not primarily for defense, but it's there should I need it.

 

[paddling_man]

It sounds like you are describing using a TDI to defend against a gun grab. The problem is this would not work at all with the CP you would be trying to slash with te dull side of the blade. That is what I was saying about the TDI being a poor CP substitute. I was not saying it is a bad knife. It is an excellent defensive tool, just not a CP.

Sorry, but read back. I'm not interested in a CP or TDI. I'm covered.

 

[David Rose]

Sorry, but read back. I'm not interested in a CP or TDI. I'm covered.

That's why the quote tool is so handy. It gives context to your comment.

 

[MickeyBlueEyes]

I switch between a kabar, a tanto blade rubber grip kabar, a kabar leaf blade, an m-tech beast. I'm familiar with each of them and use them for utility and otherwise. Everything except my kabar has just animal blood on it, but carving critters is good practice for a civilian. You find a road kill dear, go get a gas mask and hang it up. Practice your stabs and jabs and cross cuts. Learn how to make cuts with your weak hand and learn how to drive the blade in through ribs. Most peole don't think about blade orientation when driving the blade through ribs. It helps if its flat to the ground when plunging to the heart sack. Start thinkinh about connective tissue on the hands. A blade across the back of the hand rensders it close to useless. Then also, think about what you want to do when using a knife. There are several impact points that are hard to come back from. Most jabs to the throat will make a person not want to die. You can cause a lot of damage by using the "psycho" stab in between the collar bone and the neck also. Lots to learn, just lots to consider. Are you killing or are you cutting. Speed isn't everything. Avoiding the slices is half of the fight.

 

[MattCFII]

I thought he recommended a folder where fixed blades aren't a suitable choice.

Yeah, Mercop recommends using a fixed blade if possible (unfortunately I wasn't able to make it to his class here this weekend, but have been to two others). He's a fan of the CQB Tool and has talked about the Kerambit mostly as a great way to help with handgun retention.

He teaches folders in class because that is what most of us have on us. His IET is an almost purely defensive method and will probably be more defendable in court.

My fixed blade has changed some what but pretty always in a left appendix IWB (11:00ish) at about 45 degree angle with the blade facing up. This allows for a IET (edge in and up) draw with my left or a reverse grip, edge in crossdraw for my right. Basically if I draw left handed it is my non-dominate side in a defensive use/weapon retention, right side would be the stab them to the ground aggressive stuff (which I don't really see being used legally except in the case where a family member is under attack).

Since my folder is for everyday takes and my fixed is concealed like my gun, it is pretty much self defense only. I don't get wrapped around the axle on steel and all that kind of stuff, but I do somewhat for my folders. My former fixed was a Cold Steel Roach Belly, but now I've switched to the diminutive Browning Spur since for IET you don't need a big blade.

 

[finnegan]

When asked to design a knife for use by undercover agents with no actual knife fighting experience, Spyderco came out with the Civilian. It utilizes the most common, panicky motions with a blade to designed to hook and rip flesh very effectively.

If you are more the stabby type rather than the slashing type, you could go with this crazy, beautiful monstrosity from Microtech:

That looks like it'd cause all sorts of problems for whoever gets stuck with it, and could power through a rib if necessary. The non-flat style of the blade lends itself to "bleeding the bucket" multiple stabbing techniques over more precise targeting of organs/ blood vessels that a wider, longer, flat blade would be better suited for.

 

[jbombelli]

Until recently all of my knives were tools first and weapons a distant second. Now that I'm carrying a knife dedicated to defense, I have to carry it where I can get to it. And it has to be concealed. My shirts are always either untucked polos or tucked dress shirts. Since I can't just stick with one shirt style, I have opted to carry my Benchmade 375 as a neck knife. Normally it would be a little long for that, but I made the neck loop adjustable (paracord with a simple fisherman's knot), so once it's on I can cinch it up a bit. I can get to my knife with either hand reaching under my polo shirt, or I might have to go all Hulk Hogan and rip it open if it's a dress shirt, which is really no harder to do than reaching under a polo. Yes, I actually destroyed a couple shirts making sure I can do that easily. It took some time finding all the buttons that flew everywhere, LOL.

I cord wrapped the handle to provide a little better gripping surface, and make it fill the hand a little better, as the 375 is pretty thin. The sheath is injection molded plastic, with an adjustable retention screw, and it holds the blade pretty tightly. I removed the elastic retention strap because the sheath is definitely tight enough, and it's just one more thing to get in the way if I need to pull it. The blade is double-edged, with a serrated spine, so I won't need to adjust my grip unless I want to use a reverse grip.

As far as style / technique goes, since that was one of the questions, I tend to circle back and away a lot and cut whatever insists on getting too close. If the other guy gets hold of me, I cut him off of me. If he's too close already, I try to make space and then do the above. Bottom line? I don't want to get cut, and I don't want to cut anybody. I can't speak for anybody else, but I'd rather be shot than gutted.

I've practiced slashing and stabbing with both hands. I use an old free standing heavy bag that is now covered in layer upon layer of duct tape, and has been restuffed with old rags (I'm thinking it's time for a new one, lol).

I highly recommend studying anatomy and physiology. It pays to know how the body works so you know how and where to attack it for the best results. Not that a knife is an instant fight stopper - it is not, despite what they show in movies, where a guy gets stabbed and just falls over dead. A knife just makes the other guy bleed a whole bunch. He can still usually fight for at least a few minutes. A hard blow to the head, say from a blackjack or a sap, will do a much better job of quickly stopping a fight in most cases.

 

[pingme]

You are very wise to be scared of the knife, I am too. These are easily acquired and will come from seemingly nowhere in the midst of a fight. A person with minimal knife training can neutralize numerous attackers in a matter of seconds. I train Edged Weapons to military personnel. I do not practice/teach the classic 'block & disarm' stuff; anyone with basic skills will filet that person. I will be doing another Edged Weapon course in the near future that will be open to civilians/public, pls let me know if I should post this date here. Respectfully..

 

[Squib]

I was trained during the recent unpleasantness in SE Asia. When we got to knife fighting the instructor's approach was not what I was expecting. He said the idea is never get in a knife fight, there is no winner. He finished his introduction with, "The best thing to have in a knife fight is a .45."

We spent that entire day learning how to fight with a knife. When we finished I promised myself I'd always have an extra magazine; my backup "knife".

 

[cosermann]

Along these lines, does anyone use or have you tried the CRKT Bear Claw? If so, interested in your impressions.

 

[esrice]

I will be doing another Edged Weapon course in the near future that will be open to civilians/public, pls let me know if I should post this date here. Respectfully..

Feel free to post any upcoming training courses in Tactics and Training - INGunOwners

Thanks!

 

[bwframe]

Didn't mercop recommend a folder over a fixed blade for SD?

mercop is th man to talk to about knives, blunt objects and fighting.

George teaches using the folder because that is what most folks carry. He does recommend a fixed blade over a folder understanding that it is more difficult to work into EDC than a lot of people can accomplish.

I carry an RC-4 at home, but have yet to figure how to work it into on the street EDC. The best fixed blade in the world cannot replace the extra mags on my belt. In the business climate a pocket knife clipped in my pocket draws little attention while a sheath knife might.

A couple Emerson's ride in my front pockets to shave an attacker off of me. If the attacker is within Tueller range, let alone arms reach, my gun may be more of a hazard than a help.

Another thing George instructs is that when you bring your knife into the fight it is the same as your gun, a deadly weapon. Bring a knife into a fist fight and you'll likely go to the pokey.

When you jump the imaginary line from pocket knife to "fighting knife" you also run the risk of drawing additional attention or possibly charges. If I use my "fighting knife" to fend off an attacker, it brings question to some as to why I was "looking for" trouble by carrying a weapon as opposed to a tool.

Sure, everyone can say "I'd rather be alive to fight it out in court than dead because I didn't have it." However, it's different when you are sitting in a holding cell with everything you were carrying under review. It may be totally legal to carry, but there are folks making decisions based on their own opinion of your demeanor and motives, not necessarily legalities.

 

[rhino]

If it hasn't been stressed enough, if you want to learn how to defend yourself with a knife, learn from Mercop. This is especially true if you want to learn ideas and techniques that work for everyone, not just very fit/agile people.

MODERN COMBATIVE SYSTEMS - Setting the Standard for Personal Protection and Preparedness Training

 

[traderdan]

At least 6 inches of blade,edge up,forget the slash,you need to get under the ribs and put that blade up into the heart/lungs.Defensive weak hand forearm for defense,(you are gonna get cut)....But get that one good shot into the vitals,put it in deep and move that blade around once it is in there.A knife is like a gun in this respect...Do not aim to injure,intend to kill.