Another police shooting in MN

[foszoe]

[video=youtube;d_CaZ4EAexQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_CaZ4EAexQ[/video]

Oh, and is it too late to say, "in before someone says, 'this is why you never inform'"?

You should never inform! Awww dang it.


My practice for a traffic stop in Indiana is to get my wallet out as soon as I see the lights and place it on the dash. Then my hands are at 10 2, maybe 11 1 until I am told to do something.

 

[historian]

My practice for a traffic stop in Indiana is to get my wallet out as soon as I see the lights and place it on the dash. Then my hands are at 10 2, maybe 11 1 until I am told to do something.

You should NEVER let a cop see your wallet!!! HAVE YOU LEARNED NOTHING ON INGO????

 

[phylodog]

Some of them with badges.

Only one that I've seen.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Be careful there Kut....A man had to move to Cuba once for pointing out such things.....I heard he hated it (Cuba) though...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Williams

I'm not giving myself a pass. I have been just as guilty.

 

[indiucky]

I'm not giving myself a pass. I have been just as guilty.

Your reputation as a curb stomping, fascist has been greatly exaggerated....

What I love is when someone (a noob) insinuates something like that and your biggest defenders are the folks you disagree with the most.....That speaks volumes for your class and character brother...

 

[The Bubba Effect]

We should follow this closely. It is important that we learn exactly what happened so that we can learn from it and avoid being on either side of an incident like this in the future.

 

[SwikLS]

BREAKING: #PhilandoCastile From #FalconHeightsShooting Was Crips Gang Member - GotNews

This says he was a Crip. I'm not saying the officer was justified but just more info.

 

[WebSnyper]

During a traffic stop- never be the first one to use the word "gun" unless the law requires you to.

Some of the wisest advice I have seen, and definitely something I live by.

Former Boone County Sheriff Ken Campbell told us in class to never admit to a police officer you are carrying. But never lie to them either.

Pretty much this. No sir, no illegal weapons in the car, etc.

You should NEVER let a cop see your wallet!!! HAVE YOU LEARNED NOTHING ON INGO????

We should follow this closely. It is important that we learn exactly what happened so that we can learn from it and avoid being on either side of an incident like this in the future.

Agreed. This one (at least as of now, which could change as facts come out) could very well be any one of us.

 

[Super Bee]

Former Boone County Sheriff Ken Campbell told us in class to never admit to a police officer you are carrying. But never lie to them either.

My brothers, both LEOs have told me the same thing.

 

[mcjon77]

This is bad.

Honestly, when I told relatives that I was going to start carrying concealed this was the number one argument they had against it. My counter was that in my training I was told EXACTLY how to handle traffic stops to avoid this. I REALLY question whether you can avoid it if this incident played out like it is being reported. Here are just a few thoughts.

Some have said that he was going for his wallet when the cop told him to not move and he brought his hands up. That is possible, and it is TERRIFYING. I can ABSOLUTELY see someone's startle reflex kicking in when a man with a gun yells (or even forcefully tells) at them not to move. It would almost be instinct to bring your hands up, either in surrender possession or to show that you have nothing in your hands. They wouldn't have to go all the way up. Just a slight movement from that startle reflex.

Some here might say that they wouldn't move at all, but this isn't a childhood game of red light/green light. Are you certain that if a cop is pointing a gun at you and while trying to comply with his commands he barks out another order, that you wouldn't flinch AT ALL? You would be able to shut down any instinctual panic response in your muscles and INSTANTLY turn to stone? Really?

Others have said that they like to get their ID out before the cop approaches the car, as soon as they are pulled over. My wallet is in my left back pocket. Would an officer see my movement in the car (me leaning over to lift my left butt cheek up and get my wallet) as some kind of aggression or preparation to ambush him? If he shot me, would he then argue that I was making "suspicious movements in the car before the officer reached the window" and that he feared I was preparing to ambush him?

Here is a BIG issue. I carry on my right side. I usually pocket carry, but sometime carry at 3:30 or 4:00. I also ALWAYS wear my seatbelt. If the officer wants to disarm me, ESPECIALLY if I am pocket carrying, I will have to get out of the car. There is no way I can dislodge the seatbelt myself without having my hand only a few inches from my firearm.

This is just REALLY disturbing.

 

[Kutnupe14]

BREAKING: #PhilandoCastile From #FalconHeightsShooting Was Crips Gang Member - GotNews

This says he was a Crip. I'm not saying the officer was justified but just more info.

It would be nice it this crip was wearing something, anything, blue. Maybe he's in the undercover division. And is giving the bird a gang signal?

 

[phylodog]

We should follow this closely. It is important that we learn exactly what happened so that we can learn from it and avoid being on either side of an incident like this in the future.

What is there to follow? All of the "facts" have already been established right here on INGO.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

It appears that he was gunned down by a jumpy cop while he was complying with the cop's instructions (which I'm sure we'll find were contradictory, as I've seen happen multiple times in various videos of interactions that have gone wrong, ie "Don't move... Keep your hands where I can see them... Give me your ID").

This is fortunately true, and a training issue. I was allowed to make those mistakes in training, learn from them with no one's life on the line, and know better when I hit the streets. Siminution, live action and electronic scenario training, etc. are vital to avoiding the conflicting or inappropriate command.As an aside, I recommend " don't move" as the generic ingrained command. Then let your brain catch up as you move to forebrain and give situation specific commands from that point.

 

[Beowulf]

BREAKING: #PhilandoCastile From #FalconHeightsShooting Was Crips Gang Member - GotNews

This says he was a Crip. I'm not saying the officer was justified but just more info.

I just read through that "proof". I'd take that with a grain of salt about the size of a small boulder. So, he's a Crip gang-banger... who spent the last decade working for a school as a cook and is known for sneaking kids extra graham crackers to be nice, with no convictions for violence or drugs that anyone has presented. Well, I'm glad that's one less thug off the streets, then.

That site then goes on to say the whole thing was a hoax, set up for some purpose or another (it's not really clear, because the author is incoherent) and that the girl is looking to make money on the incident. Then, just for fun I read some of the comments on the article, which delve into direct racism, posted by people with confederate flags as their user icon.

Yeah, how about I don't immediately believe that and wait until someone with a shred of credibility presents some information and can back it up without racially tinged paranoia.

 

[bobzilla]

Yeah, how about I don't immediately believe that and wait until someone with a shred of credibility presents some information and can back it up without racially tinged paranoia.

Hi! You must be new here! Welcome to INGO.

 

[Kutnupe14]

This is fortunately true, and a training issue. I was allowed to make those mistakes in training, learn from them with no one's life on the line, and know better when I hit the streets. Siminution, live action and electronic scenario training, etc. are vital to avoiding the conflicting or inappropriate command.As an aside, I recommend " don't move" as the generic ingrained command. Then let your brain catch up as you move to forebrain and give situation specific commands from that point.

I've made the same mistakes in training too. Good training programs catch this stuff, and correct it early.
IMPD get some grief, but having see other large metropolitan departments repeatedly step on they *****, I can say that professionally, you guy are a cut above. Now off-duty... wellllllll....... we're guilty of some of that too. I think a lot of IMPDs success comes from the fact that a good number of the officers are actually from the Indy area.

 

[Expat]

I just read through that "proof". I'd take that with a grain of salt about the size of a small boulder. So, he's a Crip gang-banger... who spent the last decade working for a school as a cook and is known for sneaking kids extra graham crackers to be nice, with no convictions for violence or drugs that anyone has presented. Well, I'm glad that's one less thug off the streets, then.

That site then goes on to say the whole thing was a hoax, set up for some purpose or another (it's not really clear, because the author is incoherent) and that the girl is looking to make money on the incident. Then, just for fun I read some of the comments on the article, which delve into direct racism, posted by people with confederate flags as their user icon.

Yeah, how about I don't immediately believe that and wait until someone with a shred of credibility presents some information and can back it up without racially tinged paranoia.

I didn't study it as much as you but I kind of wondered about it to as it seemed so contrary to everything else I had read. How many gang bangers have carry permits?

 

[T.Lex]

Only one that I've seen.

I can think of 3 off the top of my head who sometimes seem more omniscient than the rest of us mere mortals, although not all of them have posted in this thread.

And it doesn't include the one you're thinking of.

 

[T.Lex]

I didn't study it as much as you but I kind of wondered about it to as it seemed so contrary to everything else I had read. How many gang bangers have carry permits?

Actually, the smart ones do, as I understand it. They don't get the (adult) convictions, so are eligible for Larrys.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I didn't study it as much as you but I kind of wondered about it to as it seemed so contrary to everything else I had read. How many gang bangers have carry permits?

One thing, that may burn this officer, is the legality of the stop. The pics I've seen seem to show both lights working. Now this assumes that the officer uses "busted taillight" as his excuse for the stop. If he did, that may possibly push this from (if deemed a bad shoot), from manslaughter to murder.