At least TRY to get it right, Pete!

[IndyDave1776]

I think its pronounced "booty-judge", at least in the SB media...

Did they specify which gender he was judging?

 

[rw02kr43]

I'm surprised on that chart that Methodists ranked higher than disciples of christ. The DoC churches I've been to go on and on about how accepting they are. It really gets annoying. Don't talk about how accepting you are, just be accepting.

Jason

 

[Denny347]

Someone needs to inform the NY Times...... there is no such thing as "gay AND Christian". At least not 'redeemed' Christian. Geesh!

I know lots of Christian homosexuals. I know even more Christians who are accepting of homosexuality. Appears that more Christians are accepting than are not. Encouraging. https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/christians/christian/views-about-homosexuality/

 

[JettaKnight]

I can assure you that our Creator didn't make him gay, any more than the Creator made him a bloomin' political idiot.

I believe it is his choice (being an idiot).

Wow. It's unfortunate that there are Churches still propagating the "it's a choice" view, and just "pray the gay away".


Like all sinful nature, the choice is how we battle against it. I'm not "accepting", but I'm also not going to be hypocritical and kick someone down for struggling with sexual temptation when I have the same struggle (only straight). I want don't want accept gay marriage because we in Western cultural have suddenly decided it's OK. I do want to be Christian who will come along side a "gay Christian" and helps them with their struggle (i.e. fighting temptation) and accepts them as a child of God.



A thought:
We are most likely to vilify the sins we are least likely to commit.

I'm surprised on that chart that Methodists ranked higher than disciples of christ. The DoC churches I've been to go on and on about how accepting they are. It really gets annoying. Don't talk about how accepting you are, just be accepting.

I was hearing that a number of gay couples were attending non-affirming churches simply because they're willing to preach, rather than just patting them on the back for being so open.

There's a certain "church" here in town that can't stop praising itself about it's inclusiveness.

I know lots of Christian homosexuals. I know even more Christians who are accepting of homosexuality. Appears that more Christians are accepting than are not. Encouraging.

We'll agree to disagree. At least you have to admit that the Church is throwing out 2000+ years of theology and tradition because of a societal shift in last 50 years in Western culture.

Of course, the fact that the Church has excelled at shunning and beat down anyone that calls themselves a "Christian homosexuals" doesn't help matters at all.


The fact is, our binary, black and white labels aren't working. Even "affirming" vs "non-affirming" is somewhat muddy. What if I come to your church and tell you I picked up a dude and fooled around? How would the response differ if I said it was a chick instead? In either case would you take me out to lunch after church to talk, or would you tell me to GTFO?

I know how you feel, I ran the math on overtaking JettaKnight and it's six more years if he doesn't resort to ****posting more than we already do

I made this all one post to give you a sporting chance.

 

[JettaKnight]

Someone needs to inform the NY Times...... there is no such thing as "gay AND Christian". At least not 'redeemed' Christian. Geesh!

Why?

Can you be black AND Christian?
What about the mother who self identifies as a "homeschool Christian"?

To me, it sounds weird and even offensive: "What you mean gay Christian?" However, more and more the term "Gay Christian" is being used as an identity not necessarily as an indication of chosen lifestyle. It's an indication of a sinner's struggle that for a long, long time has been ignored by the Body of Christ.

In reality, what needs to happen is for us Believers to sit down and talk, to ask questions: "Why do you use the adjective gay?"

Unfortunately, the American church now prefers a four minute period of handshaking and "How you doing? Fine. Good morning." instead of deep dialog with our brothers and sisters.

 

[BugI02]

Why?

Can you be black AND Christian?
What about the mother who self identifies as a "homeschool Christian"?

To me, it sounds weird and even offensive: "What you mean gay Christian?" However, more and more the term "Gay Christian" is being used as an identity not necessarily as an indication of chosen lifestyle. It's an indication of a sinner's struggle that for a long, long time has been ignored by the Body of Christ.

In reality, what needs to happen is for us Believers to sit down and talk, to ask questions: "Why do you use the adjective gay?"

Unfortunately, the American church now prefers a four minute period of handshaking and "How you doing? Fine. Good morning." instead of deep dialog with our brothers and sisters.

To me it feels more like the whole girls wanting to join the boy scouts thing. It has the feel of people with no intention of meeting the criteria or obeying the rules wanting to be a member of a club that seems cooler than the ones they do qualify for

To me it seems they are wanting to reduce religion to mere branding and the congregation to a kind of social club. You know, people that would only 'follow' Jesus if he was on twitter

 

[JettaKnight]

I think its pronounced "booty-judge", at least in the SB media...

A distant relative?

 

[ATOMonkey]

All sins count the same, and no one is thrown out of church for any of them. However, what we can't do is make sin a lifestyle, and then say that everyone has to accept and praise us for it.

Sexual sins are particularly difficult to understand, because it is a sin against ourselves. That is why so many people are tricked into thinking that sexuality outside of marriage, between a man and a woman, isn't a sin.

Lies hurt other people, anger hurts other people, theft and violence hurt other people, etc. Sexual sin between two consenting people doesn't look like it hurts anyone, but it does. That can include fornication, homosexuality, pornography, incest, prostitution, etc. None of it should be viewed as a lifestyle, and no one should be forced to celebrate or accept it.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Can I condone homosexuality? No.

Can I make any defensible argument that it can be reconciled to any scriptural doctrine? No.

Is homosexuality a special ne plus ultra sin in a class by itself? Scripture says if you are guilty of any sin you are guilty of the entire law.
.
Is there an exemption for homosexuality in the prohibition against judging others? No.

This leaves me with the conclusion that I should treat them with kindness as they deal with their less than perfect lives as I try to deal with my own less than perfect life.

I will add that in a constitutional republic, all should be treated equal with no cutouts and no protected classes effectively making some, well, more equal than others.

 

[JettaKnight]

To me it feels more like the whole girls wanting to join the boy scouts thing. It has the feel of people with no intention of meeting the criteria or obeying the rules wanting to be a member of a club that seems cooler than the ones they do qualify for

To me it seems they are wanting to reduce religion to mere branding and the congregation to a kind of social club. You know, people that would only 'follow' Jesus if he was on twitter

I get that, and I bet that happens a lot - which is why I'm not sold on the terminology.


I think one way it's used is to say, "This is who I am, and what I deal with, and don't just tell me to try and ignore or hide it." If I was gay, I might say that at a church to know if they're going to accept me as Christian that really, really doesn't want these attractions or to act on them... or are they going to just tell me I'm going to hell or keep their kids away from me as if it's contagious.

There's the same stigma attached to mental disorders - just pray the the depression away. Those saying it are the same ones who mock those who avoid blood transfusions and anit-vaxxers. It's as if they're willing to look to science and medicine for some aspects, but set up limits to how far it can go.


I'm not saying prayer isn't required, but when a Christian has cancer, we pray AND visit them in chemo.


The term "gay Christian" should no more be an excuse to sin than me calling myself an "introvert Christian". .... "Sorry, I can't share the Gospel with others, I'm an introvert Christian."

 

[JettaKnight]

All sins count the same, and no one is thrown out of church for any of them. However, what we can't do is make sin a lifestyle, and then say that everyone has to accept and praise us for it.

Sexual sins are particularly difficult to understand, because it is a sin against ourselves. That is why so many people are tricked into thinking that sexuality outside of marriage, between a man and a woman, isn't a sin.

Lies hurt other people, anger hurts other people, theft and violence hurt other people, etc. Sexual sin between two consenting people doesn't look like it hurts anyone, but it does. That can include fornication, homosexuality, pornography, incest, prostitution, etc. None of it should be viewed as a lifestyle, and no one should be forced to celebrate or accept it.

Indeed. Well said.


I was listening to a podcast about this. We (recently?) have decided that the litmus test for ethics is "does it hurt anyone?" Which, as I've been told, is unique to modern Western culture. We can name all sorts of ethics and social norms that aren't acceptable, yet hurt no one. E.g. eating cats and dogs.

Yet, within this space, the LGBTQ community has really latched onto the argument that it's OK because no one else is hurt.

 

[HoughMade]

...Like all sinful nature, the choice is how we battle against it. I'm not "accepting", but I'm also not going to be hypocritical and kick someone down for struggling with sexual temptation when I have the same struggle (only straight). I want don't want accept gay marriage because we in Western cultural have suddenly decided it's OK. I do want to be Christian who will come along side a "gay Christian" and helps them with their struggle (i.e. fighting temptation) and accepts them as a child of God...

^^This.^^

I think this is the best, relatively short, article there is out there about a biblical view of sexuality, not just homosexuality.

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/what-is-the-opposite-of-homosexuality

If anyone has some time and is interested, Dr. Yuan spoke at my church several weeks ago. He has a perspective most of us will not. He is a person who, I would assume, still struggles with same sex attraction and who was a practicing homosexual for a long time. The second video is long, but if you really care about these issues, well worth watching. This is essentially the presentation that he and his parents did at our church.

[video=youtube;wupEp1RDDjg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wupEp1RDDjg[/video]


[video=youtube;SR-2EZe6XIc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR-2EZe6XIc&t=7s[/video]

 

[BugI02]

I get that, and I bet that happens a lot - which is why I'm not sold on the terminology.


I think one way it's used is to say, "This is who I am, and what I deal with, and don't just tell me to try and ignore or hide it." If I was gay, I might say that at a church to know if they're going to accept me as Christian that really, really doesn't want these attractions or to act on them... or are they going to just tell me I'm going to hell or keep their kids away from me as if it's contagious.

There's the same stigma attached to mental disorders - just pray the the depression away. Those saying it are the same ones who mock those who avoid blood transfusions and anit-vaxxers. It's as if they're willing to look to science and medicine for some aspects, but set up limits to how far it can go.


I'm not saying prayer isn't required, but when a Christian has cancer, we pray AND visit them in chemo.


The term "gay Christian" should no more be an excuse to sin than me calling myself an "introvert Christian". .... "Sorry, I can't share the Gospel with others, I'm an introvert Christian."

I think we are straying from the specific (Pete) into the general (whether we should accept gays into our congregation). I can see your point, that it will be hard for them to hear the word if no one will talk to them; but I think ATOMonkey has the right of it. There is no heirarchy of sin (at least for non-Catholics) and sin is sin. The nature of their sin is not what keeps them on the outside, in Pete's case it is the assumed lack of repentance and the desire to have their sin accepted and not to be called to accounting by the congregation. Acceptance of that situation does not help Pete and plants the seeds of relativism in that congregation at the same time. A liar is a liar, it matters little the magnitude of the lie. The same is true of a sinner, and acceptance by your fellow congregants is not the path to salvation

 

[JettaKnight]

I think we are straying from the specific (Pete) into the general (whether we should accept gays into our congregation). I can see your point, that it will be hard for them to hear the word if no one will talk to them; but I think ATOMonkey has the right of it. There is no heirarchy of sin (at least for non-Catholics) and sin is sin. The nature of their sin is not what keeps them on the outside, in Pete's case it is the assumed lack of repentance and the desire to have their sin accepted and not to be called to accounting by the congregation. Acceptance of that situation does not help Pete and plants the seeds of relativism in that congregation at the same time. A liar is a liar, it matters little the magnitude of the lie. The same is true of a sinner, and acceptance by your fellow congregants is not the path to salvation

Ah, yes, the track.... back on it.


I seriously don't understand the deep seated hatred that community has for Mike Pence. Well, I guess it all started with RFRA... Nevertheless, Pete "He Hate Me" Buttigieg is showing he can fit right into the DNC's culture of (false) victimhood.

 

[GREEN607]

This is how I feel about the gay issue....

It's none of my business who or what another person loves, and none of my business concerning any one else's sexual and emotional relationships. To be perfectly honest, I have a few friends (both male & female) who are "gay". I don't hate or even dislike them for it. I'll do my thing, as I believe, and you do yours. And the point of "as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else" is valid to some degree. But don't attempt to belittle my Christian faith with confused and distorted opinions of the Holy Scripture. And don't blame your personal feelings, faults and sins on my ​God.

Further, if someone like Pete gets elected President of the United States....... about half of our relationships with foreign countries would be detrimentally affected, because some of those nations and their citizens are very much against homosexuality per there long-established cultures. It would in fact, be degrading of our relationships with those nations, and literally make the U.S. a laughing stock, with some.

That, would hurt nearly every American, and is the "slippery slope" we don't want to travel. Two men, having sex with each other in our White House? Seriously?

Pray for our nation, if you don't already do so. Ponder what kind of society we are leaving to our children and grandchildren in America!

 

[CampingJosh]

Two men, having sex with each other in our White House? Seriously?

While undoubtedly sinful, it would not be nearly the most destructive thing that has happened in the White House.

 

[jamil]

View attachment 76277



Well, two of your three examples have managed to score slightly better scripturally than people who believe in "nothing in particular" and "non-practicing Catholics", so I guess you've got that going for you

I’m surprised how many religions they’ve listed below Muslim, which also throw gays off the roof of buildings.

 

[churchmouse]

While undoubtedly sinful, it would not be nearly the most destructive thing that has happened in the White House.

And odds will get you in the pool that this would not be the 1st time either.

 

[KLB]

I’m surprised how many religions they’ve listed below Muslim, which also throw gays off the roof of buildings.

It is US, not world.

 

[ATOMonkey]

I’m surprised how many religions they’ve listed below Muslim, which also throw gays off the roof of buildings.

Islam and homosexuality are kind of funny... If you have sex with a man because there are no goats around, in order to help curb your urges, then that is OK. Also, if you do it on Thursday before you are forgiven on Friday, then that is the most acceptable time. Meanwhile, masturbation will get you on the fast track to hell.

Or if could just be an Afghan Islamic cultural thing. I don't know if that applies to all muslim communities.

Anyway, as long as you're only having sex with men in order to sate an urge, and not because you like it, then that is OK.