Carry Gun Match Observations

[Coach]

Recently saw a short video clip from Mike Pannone of CTT-Solutions, a guy who knows a thing or two about fighting with guns.

carrying something is better than carrying nothing----just be trained and ready to hit with what you carry. Makes great sense. .

I totally disagree with this philosophy and I think those that promote it are doing a disservice to the new gun owners and novice shooters that take it to heart.

If I do my part and get the hit the round should do its job. With the mouse calibers that fails to happen often. A small caliber paired with a small gun with a short barrel is a recipe for not getting the job done. The philosophy of just train with what works for you in regard to caliber and small pistols is the just another modern, politically correct way of saying do whatever you want. It is fine. Live and let live, whatever you want the truth to be fine. History says other wise. Hope is not a course of action.

 

[jwo483]

I totally disagree with this philosophy and I think those that promote it are doing a disservice to the new gun owners and novice shooters that take it to heart.

If I do my part and get the hit the round should do its job. With the mouse calibers that fails to happen often. A small caliber paired with a small gun with a short barrel is a recipe for not getting the job done. The philosophy of just train with what works for you in regard to caliber and small pistols is the just another modern, politically correct way of saying do whatever you want. It is fine. Live and let live, whatever you want the truth to be fine. History says other wise. Hope is not a course of action.

Agree Coach, the P10C goes or I don't.

Sent from my SM-T377P using Tapatalk

 

[jkdbjj]

I am sure Mike would defend your right to your opinion...and I doubt you would change his. If it was carry a "mouse caliber" or carry nothing, you have the right to carry nothing.

 

[Coach]

I am sure Mike would defend your right to your opinion...and I doubt you would change his. If it was carry a "mouse caliber" or carry nothing, you have the right to carry nothing.

I carry every day.
I don't need Mike, you or anyone else to defend me. I will do it myself.

 

[Cameramonkey]

On a related note to the mouse calibers. Carry what you can to the best of your abilities. I carry my G19 99.999% of the time. But there are a few select times that having something more than a pocket knife just wont cut it due to certain expectations of the environment. At that time I go to plan B and carry the mouse gun. (G-42)

I'd rather have a substandard firearm than no firearm. A 22 in the pocket is better than a 45 in the safe at home. But the most important aspect is knowing what tool is best for the job and always using that tool whenever possible. (dont bring a knife to a gunfight)

 

[bwframe]

How many other instructors besides Pannone recommend a .380 for self defense carry?

 

[jwo483]

I am sure Mike would defend your right to your opinion...and I doubt you would change his. If it was carry a "mouse caliber" or carry nothing, you have the right to carry nothing.

You miss my point. if I would be somehow forced (unlikely) to carry a mouse caliber to go somewhere, I wouldn't go.

 

[jkdbjj]

On a related note to the mouse calibers. Carry what you can to the best of your abilities. I carry my G19 99.999% of the time. But there are a few select times that having something more than a pocket knife just wont cut it due to certain expectations of the environment. At that time I go to plan B and carry the mouse gun. (G-42)

I'd rather have a substandard firearm than no firearm. A 22 in the pocket is better than a 45 in the safe at home. But the most important aspect is knowing what tool is best for the job and always using that tool whenever possible. (dont bring a knife to a gunfight)

I agree. I would think most people who carry would choose a mouse caliber gun vs. carrying nothing at all, but maybe this thread proves otherwise. The carry gun matches have no caliber restriction? Which seems to show an understanding that some people might choose, for whatever reason, to carry a less-than-best caliber---but if they make that choice they should train to be as effective as possible with that choice. That is what I took Mike to be saying too.

 

[Coach]

The Carry Gun Matches have no caliber restrictions or really any gun restricttion because it was hoped that it would be a crucible of guns, gear and shooting ability. I did not want any of the mouse gun people to say that my gun is fine except for the rules of the match. If "these guns" are viable then let the facts be observed at the match and on the scoresheet. I completely disagree with the caliber choices of many and their gun choices but it is up to them. But for people to be misleading the new and novice shooter is wrong and potentially very dangerous.

I disagree with much of the logic upstream. I disagree with being willing to be good with a sub-optimal gun. Be good with a suitable gun.

 

[Topshot]

Thanks for your anecdotal info. It's true a non-insignificant portion of inmates have been military. I know of several personally because I do prison ministry. I also know some murderers and gang members. I only normally see 2 guys right now and and one doesn't fit the profile for sure but maybe they'd be willing to comment on what they've heard at least regarding this because it fascinates me.

Thought I'd follow up after talking with them. Both agreed with the stereotype that criminals don't practice from everything they have experienced and learned.

One grew up near DC but in a good suburb. Most of his huge high school was gov't of some kind and most of those dads shot frequently. He was shocked to learn of rvb's mention of gangs frequenting some ranges in the area and puzzled why they wouldn't be arrested for possessing a firearm (though not all gang members have a felony, of course). He was also shocked when he ran across another inmate that actually mentioned cleaning a firearm.

The other grew up running the streets in a MI city. Rough childhood. His sister was recently murdered. He mentioned he had a gun at 5th grade. He is an outlier since he did practice starting around 16, but it was only because one of his friend's brother's (who was leading a normal life) did. He said he learned how to shoot by watching cops in movies/shows since they always seemed to shoot better than the bad guys. He knew of nobody else that did and again brought up that it wouldn't be likely since criminals can't possess so they would have to train under cover if they did. He mentioned being shot at with an AK and returning fire with his 38 and wounding the guy, ending the fight. He's an outlier in other ways, too, one of which is being a conservative Republican and said if Trump doesn't start doing what he said and quit worrying about making everyone happy and bickering on Twitter that he won't win again. In his opinion Trump won only because so many Dems didn't want to vote for Hillary but figured Trump would lose anyway and believes they won't make the same mistake again.

Back to the regular thread though it appears to have died down now. I overheard some "horror stories" of some of the scenarios Coach has dreamed up for previous matches so I'm a bit nervous now.

 

[Turf Doctor]

Another great match put on by Coach.

 

[Coach]

Bud light has helped me come up with a lot of stuff.

 

[Coach]

Some video from the August 8, 2018 match. The Hawaiian Shirts are not necessary but encouraged. This was a very straight forward match without a lot of hoopla. We have a variety of skill levels shooting. Every match has new shooters present. Hopefully the video will encourage more people to give it a try.

Optics, ported barrels, compensators, lights and lasers put the gun into open division. We have never had an open gun win this match.

[video=youtube;yv6Aw9Wilq8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv6Aw9Wilq8[/video]

 

[rhino]

That was fun!

I did okay on Stage 3.

I didn't fall or even stumble.

No misses.

Still haven't figured out how to clear my concealment shirt with my support hand on a consistent basis. I did it with my dominant hand for a lot of years.

Accuracy was good on the longer distances (better than the close targets in some cases).

Thanks to Coach, everyone who helped, and everyone who was safe!

 

[Mattroth54]

Once again, lots of fun both shooting last night and seeing myself improve with practice. Also fun to step into this vicious cycle of train, practice , improve, and find something else I suck at, rinse, and repeat. Not sure there’s an end but I’ll keep shooting and showing up. Maybe even a Hawaiian shirt next time.

 

[Coach]

Been a while since this thread had some action. There was a holster that came off the belt with the gun at last nights match. Not to criticize anyone particularly when it was their first match. But of the holster comes off with the gun on the street it could be real bad news. I have seen in classes and practice sessions and a few matches holsters coming out with the gun.

I am not a fan of clip on holsters. Everyone I meet with one claims theirs never comes off the belt. I can name three or four people that made that claim and then it happened in a fast draw contest.

Just something to think about.

 

[praff]

Been a while since this thread had some action. There was a holster that came off the belt with the gun at last nights match. Not to criticize anyone particularly when it was their first match. But of the holster comes off with the gun on the street it could be real bad news. I have seen in classes and practice sessions and a few matches holsters coming out with the gun.

I am not a fan of clip on holsters. Everyone I meet with one claims theirs never comes off the belt. I can name three or four people that made that claim and then it happened in a fast draw contest.

Just something to think about.

I had a clip on tie that came off during a fast draw contest one time....phew, scary.

 

[NHT3]

I think you missed it but that holster came off the belt TWO times that I know of last night, but who's counting. Not what I would call a secure rig.

[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright[/FONT]

 

[Coach]

I think you missed it but that holster came off the belt TWO times that I know of last night, but who's counting. Not what I would call a secure rig.

[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright[/FONT]

I only saw one. Lessons can be learned from others. You don't have to learn the hard way.

 

[rhino]

A holster that is easy to slide onto your belt and off of your belt when you want . . . is too easy to slide on and off.