Changing carry gun habits

[maxwelhse]

A little off topic, I'm also curious about the guys buying triplets. I'm familiar with the logic behind twins, and it makes a good deal of sense, but the 3x multiplier of the same exact carry gun is a new one for me. Can some of you enlighten me?

 

[Vigilant]

A little off topic, I'm also curious about the guys buying triplets. I'm familiar with the logic behind twins, and it makes a good deal of sense, but the 3x multiplier of the same exact carry gun is a new one for me. Can some of you enlighten me?

PACE concept Primary, Alternate, Contingency, Emergency. Well that’s 4, but 1 on your person, one in the safe at home, and one somewhere off site as a fallback. That’s in the simplest of terms. I have enough that I actually PACE them, 1 on me, one locked away in a stash compartment in my vehicle, one home in the safe, and one elsewhere. If I’m ever at E, you’ll hear about it in the news, involving extradition from another country.

 

[churchmouse]

You should, it’s a Kimber.

 

[maxwelhse]

PACE concept Primary, Alternate, Contingency, Emergency. Well that’s 4, but 1 on your person, one in the safe at home, and one somewhere off site as a fallback. That’s in the simplest of terms. I have enough that I actually PACE them, 1 on me, one locked away in a stash compartment in my vehicle, one home in the safe, and one elsewhere. If I’m ever at E, you’ll hear about it in the news, involving extradition from another country.

The furthest I've ever heard before is the P and A portions of that. So if one goes down, or God forbid is involved in an investigation, you still have the other to fall back on until you can get another P. C seems like a reasonable plan, but if the chips are that down I'd take what I could get. In my mind, mixing platforms in that case wouldn't be the worst thing ever, but I can see the logic.

I agree with you on E...

 

[Jozenbau]

A little off topic, I'm also curious about the guys buying triplets. I'm familiar with the logic behind twins, and it makes a good deal of sense, but the 3x multiplier of the same exact carry gun is a new one for me. Can some of you enlighten me?

I was kinda curious about that myself but I assumed it was a situation that they all weren’t in the same spot at the same time so I didn’t ask the question lol.

 

[maxwelhse]

I was kinda curious about that myself but I assumed it was a situation that they all weren’t in the same spot at the same time so I didn’t ask the question lol.

Again, I've known plenty of guys that have twins and I get that, but it's a carry and a reserve piece. Spreading guns out all over the country is a cool idea, but not something I've considered in any serious way before.

As far as the questions, somewhat to my surprise, this has been one of the more educational and interesting threads I've seen around here in a bit (admitting I don't read every thread). So... fire away. You're not the only guy learning things here.

Soon these guys are gonna have me selling everything to buy 3 more G21s.

 

[bwframe]

It's my understanding that, if you are forced to use your sidearm in self defense, the likelihood of you going home with that gun in the modern day is zero. Correct?

If, in the above scenario, you have a BUG in the car or in your home, that gun may also end up being deemed "part of the investigation. Right?

 

[Vigilant]

Again, I've known plenty of guys that have twins and I get that, but it's a carry and a reserve piece. Spreading guns out all over the country is a cool idea, but not something I've considered in any serious way before.

As far as the questions, somewhat to my surprise, this has been one of the more educational and interesting threads I've seen around here in a bit (admitting I don't read every thread). So... fire away. You're not the only guy learning things here.

Soon these guys are gonna have me selling everything to buy 3 more G21s.

Look at things another way, your carry gun is on you, and your backup is in the car. You’re involved in a shooting while in your car, they may search the car and take possession of both you’re primary and secondary, hence the tertiary. Once you get to “E” stuff has gotten bad, and you’re most likely PNG’d from normal sources of obtaining a weapon?

 

[maxwelhse]

Look at things another way, your carry gun is on you, and your backup is in the car. You’re involved in a shooting while in your car, they may search the car and take possession of both you’re primary and secondary, hence the tertiary. Once you get to “E” stuff has gotten bad, and you’re most likely PNG’d from normal sources of obtaining a weapon?

I don't store a weapon in my car fulltime or carry a backup. It's up for debate whether or not I should, but, that's not a scenario that would currently effect me. This guys I know with twins usually don't have both in the same place at the same time either, though a couple may carry a BUG and their primary, their secondary is at home (as well as a secondary BUG).

 

[ultra...good]

I am in the never sell a gun crowd. I have given a few away as gifts, and sold one back that was collateral for a loan, but never sold one outright.

And I am also in the club that keeps weapons at multiple locations. Never know what will happen or when. Try to be prepared for worst case scenarios.

 

[Vigilant]

I don't store a weapon in my car fulltime or carry a backup. It's up for debate whether or not I should, but, that's not a scenario that would currently effect me. This guys I know with twins usually don't have both in the same place at the same time either, though a couple may carry a BUG and their primary, their secondary is at home (as well as a secondary BUG).

What if the shooting happens at home? I’m not telling you what to do, just gaming the scenarios. It’s not a stretch to think any firearms on the scene may be collected?

 

[maxwelhse]

It's my understanding that, if you are forced to use your sidearm in self defense, the likelihood of you going home with that gun in the modern day is zero. Correct?

If, in the above scenario, you have a BUG in the car or in your home, that gun may also end up being deemed "part of the investigation. Right?

This has generally been my assumption, except for "in the home". If I ever have to defend myself and they're attempting to confiscate every gun in the house, I think they'd be up for some pretty nasty legal battles in the future and they're going to need some pretty strong probable cause to pry my safe open without a warrant when I'm the guy that called them... I'm sure it's happened to some poor SOB out there before though.

 

[Vigilant]

BTW, geo-caching is a very cool way to pass the time!

 

[maxwelhse]

What if the shooting happens at home? I’m not telling you what to do, just gaming the scenarios. It’s not a stretch to think any firearms on the scene may be collected?

Kinda covered in a previous response. I'm not saying that having an offsite backup isn't a decent idea. I have to admit I'm also looking at the scenario where if they were to do that and then prevent me from buying another gun somehow (I don't think even Zimmerman had that put on him even with the huge spotlight all of that got) that it may be in my best interest to just remain unarmed (I know... I know...). If I'm somehow slapped with murder charges, legally forbidden from getting or owning another gun, and somehow get caught with one, that's not going to bode well for my legal defense. The odds of any of us ever having to use a firearm in defense is almost 0, the odds of having to do it twice in, let's say under 2 years (for the legal case to do its thing), are astronomically small. I'd rather take the risk of being murdered by a second robber than radically increase my risk of dying in prison. I'd rather die right now given those options.

If you're talking about a WROL situation, then this all changes as there won't be any courts to prosecute me or anyone else.

 

[Vigilant]

Kinda covered in a previous response. I'm not saying that having an offsite backup isn't a decent idea. I have to admit I'm also looking at the scenario where if they were to do that and then prevent me from buying another gun somehow (I don't think even Zimmerman had that put on him even with the huge spotlight all of that got) that it may be in my best interest to just remain unarmed (I know... I know...). If I'm somehow slapped with murder charges, legally forbidden from getting or owning another gun, and somehow get caught with one, that's not going to bode well for my legal defense. The odds of any of us ever having to use a firearm in defense is almost 0, the odds of having to do it twice in, let's say under 2 years (for the legal case to do its thing), are astronomically small. I'd rather take the risk of being murdered by a second robber than radically increase my risk of dying in prison. I'd rather die right now given those options.

If you're talking about a WOROL situation, then this all changes as there won't be any courts to prosecute me or anyone else.

As I said, just gaming the scenarios. My PACE plan is in place, and I took up geo-caching as a hobby years before the liberal hipsters did.

 

[Vigilant]

Kinda covered in a previous response. I'm not saying that having an offsite backup isn't a decent idea. I have to admit I'm also looking at the scenario where if they were to do that and then prevent me from buying another gun somehow (I don't think even Zimmerman had that put on him even with the huge spotlight all of that got) that it may be in my best interest to just remain unarmed (I know... I know...). If I'm somehow slapped with murder charges, legally forbidden from getting or owning another gun, and somehow get caught with one, that's not going to bode well for my legal defense. The odds of any of us ever having to use a firearm in defense is almost 0, the odds of having to do it twice in, let's say under 2 years (for the legal case to do its thing), are astronomically small. I'd rather take the risk of being murdered by a second robber than radically increase my risk of dying in prison. I'd rather die right now given those options.

If you're talking about a WROL situation, then this all changes as there won't be any courts to prosecute me or anyone else.

Not for nothing, but in Indiana, using a firearm for self defense is a positive defense even for a felon. As far as odds yes 99.99% unlikely, but it’s that .01%. What’s to say you waste a mope in the Grundy gang, and his buddies come come gunning for you(Grundy gang used as a what if, but replace with Sons of Silence, Crips, Bloods, etc.)

 

[maxwelhse]

As I said, just gaming the scenarios. My PACE plan is in place, and I took up geo-caching as a hobby years before the liberal hipsters did.

I get it. Part of that scenario, in my mind anyhow, is trying not to help a DA make me die in prison while a murder investigation and potential prosecution is ongoing by stacking additional felony firearms charges on top of the list. Like I said, between prison and death, I'll take death, and in a world that still has rule of law the odds of me needing to defend myself with a firearm on two separate occasions is infinitely small. Like probably everybody else here, situational awareness is the true fundamental key of my self defense strategy. I don't put myself in high risk scenarios and if I see one coming, I split. I see my most likely use of a defensive firearm as thwarting a home invader and the law in IN is pretty strongly on my side on that one. If I end up with a DA that is out for blood, and a legal system that somehow finds a way to confiscate every gun in the house in that scenario, the deck is already stacked so far against me that another gun isn't going to make anything better at all.

 

[CampingJosh]

Sure... But my question then becomes if it was good for years why wouldn't you continue to have it around as an option? If you're confident enough in it to save your life for several years, and you have a good system in place, why dump it at all? I get it that needs change and technology advances, but a good system is still good, IMO.

I don't use "good" once I have "better." At my work, we have three lawn mowers: two nice zero-turn models, and one 30-year-old John Deere that just keeps running. The first two people mowing each time never choose the JD.

Some of this may just come down to personality types too. I think I have 10 complete, and different, wrench sets out in my tool box in the garage. Do I need 10 complete sets? No... Is it nice to have them? Yes. Could I sell some of them and recover some amount of money? Sure. But, if I have a use for them, if even occasional, I'll keep them around because it just isn't worth it to me financially or otherwise to dump 'em.

Yep, personality type goes a long way. One wrench set is a tool. Two sets is a spare. Three sets in one garage is clutter, and I don't need clutter.

I've given away several wrench sets. I've also put together vehicle kits that stay in each vehicle, and I see the purpose and value in that. But just having stuff sitting around and taking up space is, to me, the worse option than not having that stuff.

 

[maxwelhse]

Not for nothing, but in Indiana, using a firearm for self defense is a positive defense even for a felon. As far as odds yes 99.99% unlikely, but it’s that .01%. What’s to say you waste a mope in the Grundy gang, and his buddies come come gunning for you(Grundy gang used as a what if, but replace with Sons of Silence, Crips, Bloods, etc.)

In that scenario I would hope the legal system, and generally good self defense laws we have in place in Indiana, would be on my side as the innocent party. If all that goes so terribly wrong that they're not, I'd rather be murdered than increase my odds of dying in prison.

 

[maxwelhse]

I don't use "good" once I have "better." At my work, we have three lawn mowers: two nice zero-turn models, and one 30-year-old John Deere that just keeps running. The first two people mowing each time never choose the JD.

Yet the JD still has a place and is still performing a function. That's the side of the coin I'm on. Any operational firearm that I'm confident in and outfitted to carry is worth having around until some other limitation comes up that prevents it. If it's cash, or space, or whatever, that's up to each person to decide. I've never had to make that decision and I hope not to. I'm also not chastising you for making different decisions (nor do I feel you're doing that to me).

Yep, personality type goes a long way. One wrench set is a tool. Two sets is a spare. Three sets in one garage is clutter, and I don't need clutter.

I've given away several wrench sets. I've also put together vehicle kits that stay in each vehicle, and I see the purpose and value in that. But just having stuff sitting around and taking up space is, to me, the worse option than not having that stuff.

Except in this case I have normal length wrenches, stubby wrenches, long wrenches, ratcheting wrenches, and line wrenches, in SAE and Metric (sp 10 sets) and that's just my standard primary tool set (there are other sets as well). I could certainly get by with fewer sets, but I'm happy to have them all as they all can perform slightly different functions and none exactly or completely duplicates the other. All of these also occupy 1.5 drawers in my tool box (and I've got a plan to put them all in one drawer), so, no reason to thin the herd.Hell.. I think I have 5 torque wrenches with the same logic applied. The same is true with my guns. There's overlap, and even redundancy, but there's not presently any reason to cast anything off and the only ones that come to my mind would be space and money. I can always make more space and I hope the money never becomes such a big issue that I have to make that choice. If I ever own a gun that is straight up useless, then I made a bad buying decision in the first place.