Dan Wesson valor 10mm ss galling up during break in

[arctic427]

I did to for a long time and I still carry it when the mood suits me.

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[Robert Richardson]

I have come to the add a drop of synthetic to that mix for cold weather use. I had a qt of Royal purple racing oil on the shelf.

Great minds think alike

 

[Robert Richardson]

Here is a link if anybody else wants to follow it.
https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=984276

After reading this response, I take this as saying : Yeah, we know we have a problem on these pistols but, we are going to ship them out any way. If they screw up, we will repair them.
To make statements like that made about repairing it, tells me they have repaired more than just a few guns that this issue has happened to. Kinda reminds me of automobile manufacturers that say "Yes we have a concern but, " we will only address it if the customer complains about it."

 

[samspartan]

After reading this response, I take this as saying : Yeah, we know we have a problem on these pistols but, we are going to ship them out any way. If they screw up, we will repair them.
To make statements like me made about repairing it, tells me they have repaired more than just a few guns that this issue has happened to. Kinda reminds me of automobile manufacturers that say "Yes we have a concern but, " we will only address it if the customer complains about it."

well keith response today to me was .
"warranty doesn't work like that."
that was it not explaining anything .I had asked if they would give me a refund since I had receipt. and there gun failed within 6weeks.So far I've been disappointed with the customer service.
they used to include lube for break in with a new package. why they stopped I don't know. especially if they want to claim that customers are causing the issue not using their lube. plus their warranty doesn't state how it will be warrantied. between their gunsmith and this response I have soured on my opinion of their product. if they would just talk more than five word sentences this would be a better experience.

I also have a newer Coonan compact in 357 in stainless. the gun looks great even though it has a pretty warm diet of magnum rounds. I have probably shot more than 1400. if they come back online after this hiatus. I prefer Coonan.

 

[samspartan]

but also kudos to cz/dw for sending a notice saying they received my gun yesterday and giving me a turnaround guestimate. 4-6 weeks.
it is nice to know the time table and that they will send me weekly updates.

 

[joncon]

I've been wanting to add a high end 1911 (Wilson, Ed Brown, Dan Wesson, etc.) to my 1911 collection. After reading of your problems and the replies from the company. I think I'll eliminate Dan Wesson's
from the list. I have a few stainless pistols including an AMT and have never had a problem like you, I lube my guns but don't run them wet

 

[mcapo]

well keith response today to me was .
"warranty doesn't work like that."
that was it not explaining anything .I had asked if they would give me a refund since I had receipt. and there gun failed within 6weeks.So far I've been disappointed with the customer service.
they used to include lube for break in with a new package. why they stopped I don't know. especially if they want to claim that customers are causing the issue not using their lube. plus their warranty doesn't state how it will be warrantied. between their gunsmith and this response I have soured on my opinion of their product. if they would just talk more than five word sentences this would be a better experience.

I also have a newer Coonan compact in 357 in stainless. the gun looks great even though it has a pretty warm diet of magnum rounds. I have probably shot more than 1400. if they come back online after this hiatus. I prefer Coonan.

Your frustration is understandable but your methodology is counterproductive.

I am afraid that all your public bemoaning on two forums puts DW in a bit of a corner as to following the specifics terms of the warranty and not just sending you a replacement.

The gun has an issue. Dan Wesson agreed to start a warranty claim on it, you've had a correspondence from the VP, they are in possession of the gun. Let it play out and then draw a conclusion or course of action.

Dan Wesson currently has a reputation as one of the best out-of-the-box production 1911s in the current market and I think that reputation is well deserved. Give them a chance.

If they don't make it right; then go after them.

 

[samspartan]

I've been wanting to add a high end 1911 (Wilson, Ed Brown, Dan Wesson, etc.) to my 1911 collection. After reading of your problems and the replies from the company. I think I'll eliminate Dan Wesson's
from the list. I have a few stainless pistols including an AMT and have never had a problem like you, I lube my guns but don't run them wet

Well if you go on their forum. There is a police officer who bought a commander length who is also have a bunch of issues. Granted it sounds like he isnt using factory mags and it's not feeding his departments issued hst ammo. But they also left him hanging. I dont know if we are just two turds in a punch bowl or they have a bigger issue. But a guy on here recommended the 1911 forum and I would recommend to browse it before writing them off. I wish I would've done more research. I probably would've bought the black finish and been happier. But even it seems to have issues with staining.

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[samspartan]

Your frustration is understandable but your methodology is counterproductive.

I am afraid that all your public bemoaning on two forums puts DW in a bit of a corner as to following the specifics terms of the warranty and not just sending you a replacement.

The gun has an issue. Dan Wesson agreed to start a warranty claim on it, you've had a correspondence from the VP, they are in possession of the gun. Let it play out and then draw a conclusion or course of action.

Dan Wesson currently has a reputation as one of the best out-of-the-box production 1911s in the current market and I think that reputation is well deserved. Give them a chance.

If they don't make it right; then go after them.

I was just saying how my experience has been. I didnt start those posts till after I had called and talked to the gunsmith on the phone. I thought them telling a customer that it was their fault was terrible. None of this would've been on the forum if he had just said you know what well take care of it and make it right. Well get back to you on what caused it after we look at it. I didnt want a refund till after. Clearly cause I would like to have spent my money elsewhere. Replacement so I could take it back to dealer and ask for a refund on an unfired gun.

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[JJM7288]

I was just saying how my experience has been. I didnt start those posts till after I had called and talked to the gunsmith on the phone. I thought them telling a customer that it was their fault was terrible. None of this would've been on the forum if he had just said you know what well take care of it and make it right. Well get back to you on what caused it after we look at it. I didnt want a refund till after. Clearly cause I would like to have spent my money elsewhere. Replacement so I could take it back to dealer and ask for a refund on an unfired gun.

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I've broken-in 3 stainless Dan Wesson 1911's without a single issue.
The manual clearly states FP-10, Millitec-1 or Dan Wesson rail lube (looks like FP-10 to me) for break in.

I can't help but think the grease you applied to the rails is the cause of the problem. That said, the FAQ listing TW25b grease is confusing. Perhaps it's acceptable to use grease after break-in?

When DW returns the pistol, break it in with FP-10 and it will serve you well for a long time.

Dan Wesson is a great company making the best production 1911 available.

Good Luck!

 

[samspartan]

so gun grease in a new gun will not lube a rail in 50 shots. no way dan wesson let a defect out the door. i think you could lube with just about any gun oil or grease and be fine in 50 shots, just my 2 cents,

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[samspartan]

So still out for repair.no news

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[samspartan]

but also kudos to cz/dw for sending a notice saying they received my gun yesterday and giving me a turnaround guestimate. 4-6 weeks.
it is nice to know the time table and that they will send me weekly updates.

Well this morning I see that cz sent me email that my gun is finished and on it's way back.

Work Performed: Refit slide to frame. Polished feed ramp, fire controls and throat. Trigger set to 1 3/4 x 4. Test fired, no issues.


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[churchmouse]

Well this morning I see that cz sent me email that my gun is finished and on it's way back.

Work Performed: Refit slide to frame. Polished feed ramp, fire controls and throat. Trigger set to 1 3/4 x 4. Test fired, no issues.


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Pics when it returns.
A re-fit could entail many different things.

I just sent a brand new Sringer TRP back for Warr. repairs. 1st time for me as I will usually just correct any issue myself over dealing with the shipping etc.
This one shot 7:00 low (badly) out of the box. Nothing that jumps out hat I could/should repair to the flagship 1911 from that Marque.
It arrived yesterday. We will see.

 

[Hohn]

Don't know about all that tried and true stuff but, CM called it right in his post about the Permatex Assembly Lube. I use it on the rails and it will make about any 1911 feel like it's running on ball bearings. I tried in super cold weather and yeah, it will slow the slide velocity. What I did try was after putting the lube on the rails and just running the slide by hand on the frame, adding 1 drop of Mobile 1 synthetic engine oil on the rails and the stickines was gone, ran fine. Lucas also makes a synthetic assembly lube ,green in color.

Stainless galling is a known problem engineers have been working around since it became widely used.

Initial surface roughness is a primary contributor because stainless has hard (mostly Chromium) oxides on the surface that form the passivation layer that gives it its corrosion resistance. A rough surface in sliding contact will abrade those oxides away and expose softer metal beneath. If the sliding speed is sufficiently high, the sliding surfaces will microscopically weld together and tear a little piece of metal out, making it rougher. This sets in motion the snowball effect that leads to serious galling.


What can someone do to prevent?

1) use the appropriate lube. This would be a *grease* and not a light oil, and one that contains EP additives. Engine assembly lube is exactly something of this type. Apply very sparingly and wipe off the extra with a dry paper towel. Since you cannot remove all the grease with a paper towel, it will leave the thinnest possibly layer of grease behind, which is exactly what you want (irony alert: less lube lubes better than more, it will be slicker and carry more load). Add a drop of synthetic oil on top of you want, but wipe off the excess of that, too.

2) Cycle by hand several times at low speed to do initial break in. Remove the recoil spring if you want and can. Just move the slide at hand-action speed several times. This will burnish the SS surfaces at a speed slow enough to prevent the microwelding and galling.

3) Shoot some weak (WWB) ammo for a box or two to break in. This will again have slightly reduced slide velocity and prevent galling.

4) Home free, use your regular lube and loads and enjoy. (although the advice about not over-greasing or oiling is always sound advice). Wiping off all visible oil/grease with dry paper towel (i use blue shop towels that are lint free) is key.

 

[churchmouse]

Stainless galling is a known problem engineers have been working around since it became widely used.

Initial surface roughness is a primary contributor because stainless has hard (mostly Chromium) oxides on the surface that form the passivation layer that gives it its corrosion resistance. A rough surface in sliding contact will abrade those oxides away and expose softer metal beneath. If the sliding speed is sufficiently high, the sliding surfaces will microscopically weld together and tear a little piece of metal out, making it rougher. This sets in motion the snowball effect that leads to serious galling.


What can someone do to prevent?

1) use the appropriate lube. This would be a *grease* and not a light oil, and one that contains EP additives. Engine assembly lube is exactly something of this type. Apply very sparingly and wipe off the extra with a dry paper towel. Since you cannot remove all the grease with a paper towel, it will leave the thinnest possibly layer of grease behind, which is exactly what you want (irony alert: less lube lubes better than more, it will be slicker and carry more load). Add a drop of synthetic oil on top of you want, but wipe off the excess of that, too.

2) Cycle by hand several times at low speed to do initial break in. Remove the recoil spring if you want and can. Just move the slide at hand-action speed several times. This will burnish the SS surfaces at a speed slow enough to prevent the microwelding and galling.

3) Shoot some weak (WWB) ammo for a box or two to break in. This will again have slightly reduced slide velocity and prevent galling.

4) Home free, use your regular lube and loads and enjoy. (although the advice about not over-greasing or oiling is always sound advice). Wiping off all visible oil/grease with dry paper towel (i use blue shop towels that are lint free) is key.

Thanks Hohn.

 

[Grelber]

Interesting thread.
I wonder what DW is doing different with SS that creates more warranty issues and a unique ( ??? ) need for a special lube.
Machining, composition, heat treatment?

 

[Brad69]

I remember the AMT pistols had issues with galling.
Pulled my Valor Commander out of the box and sent 300 rounds downrange not a single issue. In retrospect I should have looked at the owners manual. Then I cleaned it very carefully lubed with Lucas Extreme Duty grease and oil put a idiot scratch on it during reassembly. Since then I have shot the crap outta it and carry it so it has some holster wear as well. No functioning issues I would have been extremely upset if my DW didn’t work it was recommended by the 1911 elders here on INGO.

BTW
I think I am gonna get a Fusion Commander in 10mm

View attachment 74947

 

[churchmouse]

I remember the AMT pistols had issues with galling.
Pulled my Valor Commander out of the box and sent 300 rounds downrange not a single issue. In retrospect I should have looked at the owners manual. Then I cleaned it very carefully lubed with Lucas Extreme Duty grease and oil put a idiot scratch on it during reassembly. Since then I have shot the crap outta it and carry it so it has some holster wear as well. No functioning issues I would have been extremely upset if my DW didn’t work it was recommended by the 1911 elders here on INGO.

BTW
I think I am gonna get a Fusion Commander in 10mm

View attachment 74947

I scratched the finish on one of my customs last night. Not with the slide stop but I was fooling around in the slide stop hole. Yup. Idiot.

 

[Grelber]

I think I am gonna get a Fusion Commander in 10mm

I kept all of the emails I had exchanged with Bob Serva of Fusion while trying to get a 40 cal Fusion 2011 to run, for a while. Eventually deleted them because having them around just brought the bile back up.
Sold that gun for the worst loss I've ever taken on a gun and was just glad to be rid of it.