Defensive Knife Class - Indianapolis, June 28th

[Jackson]

This all has me pretty curious. I'd like to hold the pad for him and feel the power first hand.

 

[chezuki]

This all has me pretty curious. I'd like to hold the pad for him and feel the power first hand.

Are you going to dramatically fly backwards for him?

 

[Jackson]

Are you going to dramatically fly backwards for him?

Only if the camera is rolling. I will yell and move my arms in slow motion, too.

Really though, only if he hits it hard enough. I want to see what the technique looks like at full speed. With a pad it should be tolerable.

 

[rhino]

If I hadn't accidentally killed myself with my own Dim Mak Touch o' Death --- AT FULL SPEED --- I'd add a witty remark here.

 

[Jackson]

Thai Jitsu is this?

Taijutsu (体術[SUP]?[/SUP], literally "body technique" or "body skill") is a Japanese blanket term for any combat skill, technique or system of martial art using body movements that are described as an empty-hand combat skill or system. The term is commonly used when referring to a traditional Japanese martial art but has also been used in the naming of modern martial arts such as Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu. More specific names than Taijutsu are typically used when describing a martial art, such as Jujutsu (focusing on grappling and striking), Judo (focusing on throwing and grappling), Aikido (focusing on throwing and joint locks) as well as Karate and Kenpo (focusing on striking).

 

[iChokePeople]

This all has me pretty curious. I'd like to hold the pad for him and feel the power first hand.

Well, at least we'd finally be able to get past the down range photographer thing. Even HE would think this is crazy talk.

 

[ColdSteel223]

I'm going to count on my Dim Mak Touch of Death to carry me through all unfortunate circumstances.

I wonder what would happen if I touched myse






<thud>

And now to completely derail this thread.
[video=youtube;wv-34w8kGPM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv-34w8kGPM[/video]

 

[Jackson]

Where is the OP? He hasn't been back to this thread in awhile. I am genuinely curious what Thai Jitsu is and what the basis for his knife defense strategy might be.

 

[cedartop]

Where is the OP? He hasn't been back to this thread in awhile. I am genuinely curious what Thai Jitsu is and what the basis for his knife defense strategy might be.

I am not sure the OP is Brian the Ninja. I believe the OP is just one of the people from Self-Reliance outfitters which by many accounts is a good business, other than who they have associated themselves with to teach some things. As to why they haven't been back I am sure you must have noticed that many of the people who push classes here only come but to push that class and are not contributing members of the forum otherwise.

 

[iChokePeople]

I liked this video, too.
[video=youtube;37XiSn81oFw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37XiSn81oFw[/video]

Here's another guy I like who addresses the problem. I've mentioned him to a few of you before, so here he is:

Oh, there's a little language in there that might offend some, so LANGUAGE WARNING. But if you're hoping to survive a knife attack someday, I hope a little language and anger doesn't shock you too much...

[video=youtube;E61jnJe_1SI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E61jnJe_1SI[/video]

I'm mostly talking about the first 80 seconds, or so, in which he just illustrates the difference between the things most people learn and the reality of a knife attack.

 

[cosermann]

Three words - Wuxi Finger Hold.

'Nuff said.

Skidoosh!!

 

[rhino]

Three words - Wuxi Finger Hold.

'Nuff said.

Skidoosh!!

That might intimidate were I not aware of a far more deadly weapon: Natalie's Thumbs.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

"You're not Mr. Purple, some other guy on some other job is Mr. Purple, you're Mr. Pink" STAB STAB STAB STAB STAB

 

[szorn]

I generally agree, and if you'd quoted/read just a little more of what I said... But still, I think people can also go too far in throwing out valid options because of a couple of insane, extreme, extremely unusual examples. Is there a possibility that I'll snap a guy's elbow and he'll keep right on coming? Sure, there is. What are the odds? Not good. I won't throw out the arm bar as an option due to the fact that some very small part of the population won't be affected. The odds are GREATLY in my favor. There are examples of people who've been shot MANY times and kept on going -- so we should discount the gun as an option? Would I base my defensive plan on defanging the snake? Definitely not. Would I take that shot if it presented itself? Depends on the situation, and I'd definitely take a head or eye shot over it, but I certainly wouldn't skip it just because there's a CHANCE that the guy with the knife wouldn't drop the knife any more than I'd skip a good opportunity for a good hard nut shot because a few people won't really respond to that.

As Josh said, 80/20. Don't throw out good options because of the 1%, even if the 1% got lots of attention and millions of youtube hits.

I would agree with most of that with the exception of the use of an armbar, at least not in self-defense as there are generally easier and more effective options available that don't rely on fine or complex motor-skills. Aside from that, I agree that breaking a major joint would potentially have a greater effect than just targeting the hand or limb, regardless of whether it's with a stick, knife, etc. Although still no guarantees. Personally, I prefer to focus on statistical probability- those tools, tactics, and techniques that have the highest probability of working for the majority of people, the majority of the time, during the majority of bad situations but I understand where you are coming from.

Steve

 

[iChokePeople]

I would agree with most of that with the exception of the use of an armbar, at least not in self-defense as there are generally easier and more effective options available that don't rely on fine or complex motor-skills. Aside from that, I agree that breaking a major joint would potentially have a greater effect than just targeting the hand or limb, regardless of whether it's with a stick, knife, etc. Although still no guarantees. Personally, I prefer to focus on statistical probability- those tools, tactics, and techniques that have the highest probability of working for the majority of people, the majority of the time, during the majority of bad situations but I understand where you are coming from.

Steve

(Bold added)

That's kind of my point... There are no guarantees for ANY of it. Go with the odds. The armbar is just one example, based on your citing a few freak examples where people continued to fight with a broken limb, BUT I'm pretty comfortable with the odds of MY being able to pull off an armbar in the situations in which I'd use it, which is "when it's there". I don't think you go hunting for the armbar any more than you go hunting for the right cross -- you take what your opponent gives you. I'll happily take what you would probably consider a low-percentage attack if it's presented and if, in my experience, the benefits outweigh the risks. The right answer, in my opinion, goes back to exactly the fact that NOTHING is 100%. Train for multiple options so that your neither a hammer looking for a nail, nor befuddled and out of options when the first thing you tried (even if it's the mighty gun) fails to stop an attack.

 

[szorn]

i won't speak for anyone else, just for me. There are very few things that are 100%. Guns, no. Trains, no. Falling out of an airplane without a parachute, no. Tasers, knives, chainsaws, sharks, cobras, no, no, no, no, no. People have survived all of those things. I won't throw out a valid option because some small number of people, or people in some small number of incidents, have survived or continued to attack... I'll just have other options. I won't put all of my eggs in any one basket. Not dim mak, not defanging the snake, not BJJ, not boxing or knife fighting or Muay Thai or even the soul-stealing 1911. I'll continue to study MANY of those things in the hopes that if I try to use one and it doesn't work, I'll have several other options to try. In the end, if all of the others fail, I hope I can learn Brian's dim mak death punch as a last resort, but even that probably isn't 100%.

this whole concept is the reason I get such amusement out of the guys who say, "I don't need to _________, I have a gun", or I'd just choke him or armbar him or...)

Have to agree with Cedartop. Time is the single most limiting factor in training. This goes back to my previous statement regarding statistical probability. There is nothing wrong with studying and training in various methods in order to become comprehensive. However, there is such a thing as "diminishing returns". If a person's primary objective is the ability to protect himself, why would he want to invest so much time and energy learning things that likely won't support that objective? I agree that there are no 100% guarantees but we are fortunate enough in this modern age to have access to plenty of research, CCTV footage, victim interviews, and the experiences of so many that we have a pretty good idea of what works more often than not. Combine all of this with proper training methodologies, pressure testing and scenario-based drills and you have a pretty good recipe for success. It's still no guarantee but will definitely increase the odds in our favor.

Steve

 

[rhino]

For what it's worth, the appearance of a wound doesn't necessarily tell the whole story.

An example earlier alluded to an arm that was shredded, but the person could still use their hand. I believe that happened, but it's also conclusive evidence that the cut(s) on the arm didn't actually sever the nerves or the muscle bellies completely. Regardless of how difficult or easy it may be to actually accomplish with certainty, it's simply factual that if the nerves leading to the hand are completely severed and/or the forearm muscles are completely severed, it's physically impossible to use a hand for grasping. If there exists no path to transmit the electrical impulses, they can't pass. If there is no connection between one end of a muscle belly and the other, it cannot contract.

My point is, it's more of an indictment of accomplishing the task effectively than it is about the literal efficacy of the concept.

 

[iChokePeople]

For what it's worth, the appearance of a wound doesn't necessarily tell the whole story.

An example earlier alluded to an arm that was shredded, but the person could still use their hand. I believe that happened, but it's also conclusive evidence that the cut(s) on the arm didn't actually sever the nerves or the muscle bellies completely. Regardless of how difficult or easy it may be to actually accomplish with certainty, it's simply factual that if the nerves leading to the hand are completely severed and/or the forearm muscles are completely severed, it's physically impossible to use a hand for grasping. If there exists no path to transmit the electrical impulses, they can't pass. If there is no connection between one end of a muscle belly and the other, it cannot contract.

My point is, it's more of an indictment of accomplishing the task effectively than it is about the literal efficacy of the concept.

True, no argument from me. Maybe someday I'll have enough confidence in my ability, in improving the odds, that such a thing will be higher on my list. I still practice it, and I'd still take the shot if it was there and seemed to be the best available option at the moment. Before you point out that I'm getting older, Dan Inosanto.

 

[rhino]

True, no argument from me. Maybe someday I'll have enough confidence in my ability, in improving the odds, that such a thing will be higher on my list. I still practice it, and I'd still take the shot if it was there and seemed to be the best available option at the moment. Before you point out that I'm getting older, Dan Inosanto.

I think for us regular folk, the chance of being able to close on someone (who has any ability at all) and get that kind of wound made is not likely. But think already being a clinch, maybe your're being choked so the bad guy has committed his limbs. You get ahold of your knife and cut him off of you. A situation like that with a sufficiently sharp blade and goes from unlikely to maybe.

 

[Jackson]

I think for us regular folk, the chance of being able to close on someone (who has any ability at all) and get that kind of wound made is not likely. But think already being a clinch, maybe your're being choked so the bad guy has committed his limbs. You get ahold of your knife and cut him off of you. A situation like that with a sufficiently sharp blade and goes from unlikely to maybe.

What if I stick it in his eye?