Discussion of establishing a Church security/safety team

[T.Lex]

But to have them stored there is the question. Would the church have to own them.

No.

 

[T.Lex]

But to have them stored there is the question. Would the church have to own them.

Yes.

Dammit, man, stop badgering us!

 

[BrettonJudy7]

But to have them stored there is the question. Would the church have to own them.

Yeah that's really the question that I'm asking. Is it okay for a church, as an organization, to have some long guns on campus at all times, much like a security locker, in case of a shooter or two with some AR15's.

In the case that a guy comes around with 30 round mags, and the congregation is carrying, at most, some sub-compact handguns, would there be any legal ramifications if there were a storage place in the church that housed long guns? Of course I'm not wanting the state to look at any church as Branch Davidians stockpiling guns.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Yeah that's really the question that I'm asking. Is it okay for a church, as an organization, to have some long guns on campus at all times, much like a security locker, in case of a shooter or two with some AR15's.

In the case that a guy comes around with 30 round mags, and the congregation is carrying, at most, some sub-compact handguns, would there be any legal ramifications if there were a storage place in the church that housed long guns? Of course I'm not wanting the state to look at any church as Branch Davidians stockpiling guns.

IMHO, unless things REALLY ramp up (Jihad, etc) and attacks come more frequently, a rifle isnt necessary. We are more likely to encounter a need for life saving devices like an AED or first aid kit.

This article points out that the odds of being in a church shooting.
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/common-church-shootings/

FTA:
"...the likelihood of any congregation being involved in a shooting in any year is approximately one in 126,000 or 0.0000079 percent."

Not saying we need to stand down, just that as said upthread, there are more important things to address first. Things like health emergencies, and unarmed and unstable folks that just may need talked down and escorted out.

Now if you have a known potential threat, like someone actively threatening the pastor, a nasty divorce going on with a member getting a restraining order against their spouse due to violence, etc then it may be prudent for a while. There is no one size fits all solution.

 

[churchmouse]

Yes.

Dammit, man, stop badgering us!

 

[churchmouse]

OK I am getting a bit miffed.

 

[churchmouse]

If the church were to put a defensive firearms collection in storage on site and had to use it the media would slaughter them.

Church builds Arsenal. I can see the sound bites as I type.

 

[Cameramonkey]

If the church were to put a defensive firearms collection in storage on site and had to use it the media would slaughter them.

Church builds Arsenal. I can see the sound bites as I type.

And maybe I'm jaded based on my situation, but unless you have a dedicated security detail stationed near the cabinet, how do you get to it? In my case, assuming we arent storing them in the sanctuary, somebody would have to get past the attacker because they entered the only way back to the rest of the church where the locker would likely be stored. (unless one was kept hidden under the sound booth table, behind the pulpit, etc)

But some churches it may be practical. I visited one church a couple months ago and the elevated sound booth is behind where the bad guy would enter. By the time he got to where he could see the congregation, he would be forward of the booth with his back mostly to them. They could sneak out their back door to a hidden closet under their booth.

 

[JettaKnight]

And maybe I'm jaded based on my situation, but unless you have a dedicated security detail stationed near the cabinet, how do you get to it? In my case, assuming we arent storing them in the sanctuary, somebody would have to get past the attacker because they entered the only way back to the rest of the church where the locker would likely be stored. (unless one was kept hidden under the sound booth table, behind the pulpit, etc)

But some churches it may be practical. I visited one church a couple months ago and the elevated sound booth is behind where the bad guy would enter. By the time he got to where he could see the congregation, he would be forward of the booth with his back mostly to them. They could sneak out their back door to a hidden closet under their booth.

I dunno - we have church security members running out to parking lot to get their truck gun, so this is an improvement.



There's plenty of room behind our audio console for an M1A w/ bipod.

 

[ziggy]

I believe the goal of a church safety team or security team should be focused not on how to respond to a threat, but on how to prevent bad things from happening. Many of the church shootings that I reviewed involved mental illness, others domestic conflicts of one kind or another. The security team should know who has anger issues and who is going trough a divorce. If they know this in advance they can be much better prepared to deal with a potentially violent situation.
As for the sicko in Texas, the odds are better than 50/50 that he had been in that church before he went in to shoot people. If he was there previously, greeters with a little bit of training would likely have understood that something "just didn't seem right". Greeters do not need to confront problem people, but they do need to know that the safety team should be notified immediately. (Crass commercial message - I offer this kind of training.)

 

[Tactically Fat]

I believe the goal of a church safety team or security team should be focused not on how to respond to a threat, but on how to prevent bad things from happening.

Eyes and ears, eyes and ears.

People are way less liable "to do something" if their presence has been acknowledged. And, at times, a warm smile and a hello can literally impact someone's day for the better.

 

[thunderchicken]

There has also been discussion about the lack of cover in the sanctuary. Presently it consists of chairs (not sturdy) and other people. Not good, but no intention of placing brick walls in convenient spots.[/QUOTE]

I was at the church and met with our Pastor this afternoon. He is very much on board with what we are currently doing and willing to look at ways we can improve safety. Spencer- you bring up an excellent point. Every church I have beWorahiptje Woship Center is always a large mostly open room. Really no quality cover and very little concealment. With everyone's back to the main entry. My concern would be how to add some cover options without creating a funnel point/ blind spot

 

[churchmouse]

There has also been discussion about the lack of cover in the sanctuary. Presently it consists of chairs (not sturdy) and other people. Not good, but no intention of placing brick walls in convenient spots.

I was at the church and met with our Pastor this afternoon. He is very much on board with what we are currently doing and willing to look at ways we can improve safety. Spencer- you bring up an excellent point. Every church I have beWorahiptje Woship Center is always a large mostly open room. Really no quality cover and very little concealment. With everyone's back to the main entry. My concern would be how to add some cover options without creating a funnel point/ blind spot[/QUOTE]

Make sure your people are in the wings for a natural cross fire on the main entrance.

 

[T.Lex]

Enough incense induces the same reaction as tear gas.

Ask me how I know.

 

[Cameramonkey]

There has also been discussion about the lack of cover in the sanctuary. Presently it consists of chairs (not sturdy) and other people. Not good, but no intention of placing brick walls in convenient spots.

I was at the church and met with our Pastor this afternoon. He is very much on board with what we are currently doing and willing to look at ways we can improve safety. Spencer- you bring up an excellent point. Every church I have beWorahiptje Woship Center is always a large mostly open room. Really no quality cover and very little concealment. With everyone's back to the main entry. My concern would be how to add some cover options without creating a funnel point/ blind spot[/QUOTE]

Cover in carpet and install these in the floor at various points?

 

[JettaKnight]

Enough incense induces the same reaction as tear gas.

Ask me how I know.

No clue - the only thing we have is the smell of casseroles ready for lunch once the pastor stops yapping!

 

[HoughMade]

Enough incense induces the same reaction as tear gas.

Ask me how I know.

 

[thunderchicken]

No clue - the only thing we have is the smell of casseroles ready for lunch once the pastor stops yapping!

Sooo are you Baptist or Methodist?

 

[JettaKnight]

Methodist?! Why don't you just insult my mother while at it!

 

[thunderchicken]

Methodist?! Why don't you just insult my mother while at it!

That's not an insult. Heck, I'm Free Methodist.