Florida school Shooting

[KittySlayer]

Well look at this this way. Christopher Wray, a Trump appointment, has only headed the agency since August of last year. If one is to believe that James Comey and Mueller ruined the good name of the FBI, how much time do you think is needed for the new guy to clean up that mess? Don't you kinda think people may be jumping the gun on a guy who hasn't really had the time to make that agency his own yet?

Don't know enough facts about Wray individually and what he is doing internally to form a coherent opinion.

 

[Coach]

The FBI is not being discredited for political purposes. They dropped the ball on this. They did not see the investigation through.

The local police everyone should be able to report to shots fired at the local school, get there fast and find the gunman. It should happen faster than it did in Florida. He was hiding out among the students. So what find him and do it faster. There are unarmed people being slaughtered.

I have sat in more than a few meetings locally where LE has taken the position that we will arrive and save the day. Which I have always known is bull****.

 

[jkdbjj]

If the timeline is correct, murderer started shooting at 2:21pm. Other reports have 911 call at 2:23pm. If true, then a 911 call came in 1 minute before the murderer stopped shooting, blended into the chaos, and left the campus. Since 911 calls are not broadcast direct to officers over radio...but instead need to be dispatched (taking time)...there is something less than 1 minute for the dispatch, response, capture of a reported shooter in an unknown location on a campus?

I expect a lot from law enforcement and they expect a lot from themselves, but expecting that from anyone, including school officials, not on the same floor of the shooter with eyes on the shooter, is unrealistic.

The bigger question that one day has to be addressed is what are school corporations willing to do, and give up, for true premises security?

 

[Coach]

Getting those tactical vests on and armor cars down there take time. I don't trust any time line published.

Allow me to carry my gun and the students in A202 will be safer than they ever have been. Schools and people need to stop believing that nothing can be done.

After being a reserve officer and seeing how thin the thin blue line really is. I starting carry and got a whole lot better with a gun. We are on our own and there is no escaping that fact.

If we would finally allow teachers to arm themselves at school it needs to be done right. NRA Basic pistol is not the level of training that would be needed.

I have personally called the police and reported a man with a gun at a local school building that claimed to be cop. He had no badge or ID. The officer arrived and talked to him and let him go. He was not a cop and was carrying openly on school property. No arrest ever made. I had to pound on the desk of school officials to have the man no trespassed.

The should have been arresting officer said the guy did not understand it was illegal. The ball gets dropped a lot and people are dying as a result. Things need to change.

 

[BigRed]

We are on our own and there is no escaping that fact.

AMEN!

No reason to escape it.... accept it and prepare accordingly.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Getting those tactical vests on and armor cars down there take time. I don't trust any time line published.

Allow me to carry my gun and the students in A202 will be safer than they ever have been. Schools and people need to stop believing that nothing can be done.

After being a reserve officer and seeing how thin the thin blue line really is. I starting carry and got a whole lot better with a gun. We are on our own and there is no escaping that fact.

If we would finally allow teachers to arm themselves at school it needs to be done right. NRA Basic pistol is not the level of training that would be needed.

I have personally called the police and reported a man with a gun at a local school building that claimed to be cop. He had no badge or ID. The officer arrived and talked to him and let him go. He was not a cop and was carrying openly on school property. No arrest ever made. I had to pound on the desk of school officials to have the man no trespassed.

The should have been arresting officer said the guy did not understand it was illegal. The ball gets dropped a lot and people are dying as a result. Things need to change.

You don't think there's a little bit of a knee jerk reaction here? Ignorance of the law isn't an excuse, but lots of LE use common sense when deciding when to, and when not, to arrest people. Now there, no issuing with you calling, you should have. If this was a first instance involving the particular individual carrying a gun on school grounds, then I probably wouldn't have arrested him either (assuming he had a legitimate reason to be there). The second time I'd view quite differently.

 

[HenryWallace]

So we trust police with a firearm at the hip.

Couldn't we trust teachers with the same?
Or does that throw a wrench into the Left Lib agenda?

 

[Kutnupe14]

So we trust police with a firearm at the hip.
View attachment 64031
Couldn't we trust teachers with the same?
Or does that throw a wrench into the Left Lib agenda?

I would bet that the vast majority of people would not like the "look" of teachers carrying handguns on their hips.

 

[indyartisan]

Depends on the hips

 

[Thor]

So we trust police with a firearm at the hip.

Couldn't we trust teachers with the same?
Or does that throw a wrench into the Left Lib agenda?

Yes and yes...

 

[Coach]

You don't think there's a little bit of a knee jerk reaction here? Ignorance of the law isn't an excuse, but lots of LE use common sense when deciding when to, and when not, to arrest people. Now there, no issuing with you calling, you should have. If this was a first instance involving the particular individual carrying a gun on school grounds, then I probably wouldn't have arrested him either (assuming he had a legitimate reason to be there). The second time I'd view quite differently.

What about carrying it and claiming that it was ok because he was an officer, which he was not.

How many times does it take to be a shooter in a place that you are not allowed to have a gun. Which laws can be ignored with being arrested? Why does it happen at all?

Someone carrying on school property and lying about being an officer should go to jail the first time. That way there are not dead kids there the second time.

 

[Coach]

I would bet that the vast majority of people would not like the "look" of teachers carrying handguns on their hips.

Would they rather their kids get shot instead? If that football coach in Florida had a gun he might be around to give his side of the story and the shooter may have died at the scene like he deserved. The police would have had a much easier time finding him then.

He is laying over there officer. His gun is right there. Glad you are here.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Would they rather their kids get shot instead? If that football coach in Florida had a gun he might be around to give his side of the story and the shooter may have died at the scene like he deserved. The police would have had a much easier time finding him then.

He is laying over there officer. His gun is right there. Glad you are here.

Honestly, it would be a 20/20 thing. You'd have a hard time convincing me that most parents would be ok with teachers carrying guns, unless they had been involved in some sort of school shooting before.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Depends on the hips

Why yes...yes it does.

 

[Kutnupe14]

What about carrying it and claiming that it was ok because he was an officer, which he was not.

How many times does it take to be a shooter in a place that you are not allowed to have a gun. Which laws can be ignored with being arrested? Why does it happen at all?

Someone carrying on school property and lying about being an officer should go to jail the first time. That way there are not dead kids there the second time.

If he said that, yeah, that would be a problem... but I'm betting once the officer arrived, he didn't say he said that. If he does say that, sure "hook 'em." But in absence of that confession, we have a "he said, he said" situation. I honestly think, it's going a bit overboard in arresting person OCing a gun on a school campus, "if" they had a legitimate reason to be there, and were honestly ignorant of the law. The guy should have been stopped, identified, intent ascertained, reported to the school, and cut loose with a warning if everything else was on the up and up. If the school wanted him trespassed, ok, let's do that.... but carting them off to jail, that's a bit much IMO.

 

[Coach]

I will give you another example locally that I was involved in personally.
The day before the Newtown shooting the high school I teach as was locked down after school for 17 minutes. I was my classroom with a student. We were conferencing about effort and study skills and a various number of things. The asst principal came over the PA and put us on lock down. The fear in her voice was plain and obvious. No details were given at that time. It was a very long 17 minutes. We were then given the all clear.

The police had called that a former student was said to be on the way over to the school with a gun. This student did not graduate. (sound familar) The police had called back to say the student was in custody and nothing to worry about. The next day were are having a staff meeting to debrief. The Principal announced that the police had apprehended the former student before they got to the school. Everyone felt pretty good about that. Then they told us the name of the student. The former student had been in the building when classes dismissed for the day and talked to a couple of teachers face to face. They had not seen a gun but the student was there and had left and went home before the police caught up with him.

Now we are not feeling so good about the situation. The local police were on the job and making a good effort but were not as good as they thought and claimed that they were. The administration argued for several minutes in the staff meeting that it did not happen the way the teacher were telling them. Because the cops would not lie. But the student was on campus before the lock down happened and then left. Eye witnesses who knew the kid said so.

We are on our own. At school we are not allowed to be ready for the worst day of our lives. It keeps happening and there is no pressure to put meaningful protective measures into place.

 

[Coach]

If he said that, yeah, that would be a problem... but I'm betting once the officer arrived, he didn't say he said that. If he does say that, sure "hook 'em." But in absence of that confession, we have a "he said, he said" situation. I honestly think, it's going a bit overboard in arresting person OCing a gun on a school campus, "if" they had a legitimate reason to be there, and were honestly ignorant of the law. The guy should have been stopped, identified, intent ascertained, reported to the school, and cut loose with a warning if everything else was on the up and up. If the school wanted him trespassed, ok, let's do that.... but carting them off to jail, that's a bit much IMO.

I would think the majority of parents would disagree.

 

[stoneytoney]

Unlike us, schools main concern is money. You might think your child is the priority but he or she is not. The schools only get funding from how big the school body is. That's why you're child is probably still reading the books you did reports on! They don't think it can happen to them and are oblivious to the dangers outside of campus for some odd reason. There's no money spent on training staff on what to do on these situations. No money is being spent on security, and if it is, it's the most basic. One guard with cameras at the main entrance. None of these will stop a gunman on a campus style school of any level.

 

[hpclayto]

Honestly, it would be a 20/20 thing. You'd have a hard time convincing me that most parents would be ok with teachers carrying guns, unless they had been involved in some sort of school shooting before.

Bingo. Same with all crime really, people think that it can never happen to them.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I would think the majority of parents would disagree.

You mean most would want the guy arrested? If that's what you meant, I would probably agree. Do you think most 2nd Amendment loving gun owners would agree. I would bet not. I'm firmly in the "commit a crime that victimizes someone - go to jail" ...and admittedly, I have arrest people for crimes where other people have have not been victimized (i.e. drugs/10-55), but generally, I think there should be a victim in order to hook someone up... hurt feelings isn't victimization.