Noblesville shooting

[bwframe]

So what is to become the outcome of this? Do we blame "nobody?"

Is the only person held accountable and, or charged with a crime for this so young that no legal penalty will affect any adults?


Is there any deterrent what so ever for the next shunned or "bullied" youth who wants to shoot up his school?
Same for the "parents" of the next shooter?

 

[nakinate]

So what is to become the outcome of this? Do we blame "nobody?"

Is the only person held accountable and, or charged with a crime for this so young that no legal penalty will affect any adults?


Is there any deterrent what so ever for the next shunned or "bullied" youth who wants to shoot up his school?
Same for the "parents" of the next shooter?

Who said he was bullied? Who said he got the guns from his parents?

I'm not saying those things may not be true, but all I see is a mob demanding "justice" when they don't even know the facts of the case.

 

[Vigilant]

Latest news today indicated that the little maggot is 13 years old and because of his age and Indiana law he might remain in the “juvenile justice system”! There was a hint that he obtained the two pistols from his parent’s home and that the parents might face charges. I say immediately arrest the parents and charge them accordingly. This would send a message to the lazy and ignorant parents who do not secure their weapons. I’m tired of hearing stories like this. Remember Adam Lanza in Newtown killed his own mother, stole her weapons and shot and killed all those innocents in Newtown. The only difference here is that this little idiot didn’t kill his parents. I’m sorry, in this instance lock up the parents peaceful Noblesville be damned. This event can happen anywhere.

So, you keep your guns locked away from teens? My parents NEVER owned a gun safe, yet I managed not to kill anyone throughout my high school years? Do you deny your kids the right to self defense when you’re not home, or are you a helicopter parent who wouldn’t dare leave 13 year old “Johnny” home alone?

 

[nakinate]

So, you keep your guns locked away from teens? My parents NEVER owned a gun safe, yet I managed not to kill anyone throughout my high school years? Do you deny your kids the right to self defense when you’re not home, or are you a helicopter parent who wouldn’t dare leave 13 year old “Johnny” home alone?

My best friend's parents had guns growing up. They kept them locked up. He still got them out whenever he felt like it. It isn't hard for a determined teen to pick a lock or figure out a combination. I'm not saying parents shouldn't be held accountable for their kids getting their hands on guns. However, it isn't as black and white as people want it to be.

You could do all the right things and still end up with the kid getting guns. How would the law differentiate between that and negligence? How can you prove it wasn't negligence? Does the mere existence of a safe in the house exonerate the parents? There's a lot of moving parts to this problem and no easy answer.

 

[Vigilant]

My best friend's parents had guns growing up. They kept them locked up. He still got them out whenever he felt like it. It isn't hard for a determined teen to pick a lock or figure out a combination. I'm not saying parents shouldn't be held accountable for their kids getting their hands on guns. However, it isn't as black and white as people want it to be.

You could do all the right things and still end up with the kid getting guns. How would the law differentiate between that and negligence? How can you prove it wasn't negligence? Does the mere existence of a safe in the house exonerate the parents? There's a lot of moving parts to this problem and no easy answer.

My point was essentially the same, only, bgcatty came off as being in favor of denying his/her/cis(not sure of the pronoun these days) teen offspring the right to defend themselves when the parents aren’t home? I’ll bet if you really looked, the amount of teens protecting themselves and their homes outweighs the number that shoot up schools? As a teen, ALL of my parents’ weapons were readily and easily available for mine or my brothers’ use. How’s come we didn’t kill anybody? There were several times growing up in a VERY rural area (20 minute drive to the nearest place to spend money) that the guns DID come out in readiness to defend. We (my younger brother and I) were left alone for two or three days at a time starting when I was 11-12. We had friends and family that would check on us throughout the time our parents were gone, but save the gun my dad was carrying, all the rest were “up for grabs” in the house?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

So what is to become the outcome of this? Do we blame "nobody?"

Is the only person held accountable and, or charged with a crime for this so young that no legal penalty will affect any adults?


Is there any deterrent what so ever for the next shunned or "bullied" youth who wants to shoot up his school?
Same for the "parents" of the next shooter?

Let's say your child made a passing remark about a school shooting.

What should be done with the guns in your house? Would you support a law that says you must immediately surrender all guns in your house?

 

[LP1]

^^^This^^^ Unless it could be proven that they were grossly negligent, as in they gave him the guns. I was reading numerous comments on FB from both anti's and alleged gunowners (one was allegedly ex-LEO, lifetime NRA member, "been around guns all my life") that were all pushing for storage laws. The (allegedly) ex-LEO was crowing about being able to have his loaded weapon in his hand in 3 seconds or less because he used a biometric safe beside his bed. Um, yeah... unless there is a software/hardware glitch, or your batteries have gone dead. I would never trust biometric for anything more important than maybe unlocking a cell phone. Sure not going to trust my life to a couple of AA batteries, no matter what the Duracell commercials say.

Agree about not trusting electronic devices - my personal defense guns are always readily available. However, we rely on electronic systems for safety all the time - ABS, air bags, security monitoring, cell phones for emergency calls, etc., so maybe it's not as big a leap as we think it is.

As for liability if someone uses your gun, it depends on circumstances. In this case, I have read that NPD was familiar with the shooter, as there had been calls about him walking around the neighborhood with airguns. Sounds like a lack of proper training, and lack of attention to the situation by the parents. If this information is accurate, then expecting the parents to make the guns inaccessible is reasonable. Parents could keep their carry guns on their person and lock all the others up. Same thing with car keys - keeping them inaccessible might be a bit inconvenient, but the stakes are high.

 

[pack-indy]

I will say this. The teacher that stopped the miscreant murderer-in-training deserves a medal and a parade. The school should be named for him.

Governer Holcomb requested to have the teacher be the grand marshal of the July 4th parade in Noblesville in his place...the city agreed. That's something worth coming out to support.

 

[Bigtanker]

So, you keep your guns locked away from teens? My parents NEVER owned a gun safe, yet I managed not to kill anyone throughout my high school years? Do you deny your kids the right to self defense when you’re not home, or are you a helicopter parent who wouldn’t dare leave 13 year old “Johnny” home alone?

It all depends on the kid. My dad didn't lock up his guns. I knew the rules.

My best friends parents didn't lock up their guns either. Him and my other buddy decided to scare me with an "empty" gun. See the mark in my hair in the picture below? Thats from a .38.

I'd bet if the parents of my buddy hadn't just stuck the revolver between a few pairs of jeans in the closet and had it in the safe in the basement, I would have never had my hair parted by a bullet.

Some kids will find a way to access their parents guns and do bad stuff with them. Some kids will be entrusted by their parents to have access to a firearm for self defense, and use it accordingly.

It's a decision that only a parent can make by knowing what's going on in your kids life. Yes their will be the ones who slip through the cracks and fool everyone but I think those are few and far between.

 

[bwframe]

So what is to become the outcome of this? Do we blame "nobody?"

Is the only person held accountable and, or charged with a crime for this so young that no legal penalty will affect any adults?

Is there any deterrent what so ever for the next shunned or "bullied" youth who wants to shoot up his school? Same for the "parents" of the next shooter?

Who said he was bullied? Who said he got the guns from his parents?


I'm not saying those things may not be true, but all I see is a mob demanding "justice" when they don't even know the facts of the case.

Let's say your child made a passing remark about a school shooting.


What should be done with the guns in your house? Would you support a law that says you must immediately surrender all guns in your house?

Interesting that you gents read so much into my simple questions, without providing any answers to those questions.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Interesting that you gents read so much into my simple questions, without providing any answers to those questions.

I notice you also didn't answer your own questions, or those of anyone else.

I'm also waiting to find out (not from you) how we secure weapons/car keys from teenagers, and how that'll be enforced.

 

[Dead Duck]

Jason Seaman

Anyone know if he has a LTCH? If not would he be interested in getting one? If so could there be a collection taken to pay for it.
Same goes if he doesn't have a handgun.

You can see where I'm going with this -
He did a heroic thing taking on an armed shooter but I wonder if he would have preferred to be armed himself. And in his position right now, as "The Hero", if he has a LTCH he could ask the school board if he can carry in school.
Pushing forward the armed teachers movement one more step in the right direction.

If anyone knows him out there, can you find out please.

 

[Goodcat]

Jason Seaman

Anyone know if he has a LTCH? If not would he be interested in getting one? If so could there be a collection taken to pay for it.
Same goes if he doesn't have a handgun.

You can see where I'm going with this -
He did a heroic thing taking on an armed shooter but I wonder if he would have preferred to be armed himself. And in his position right now, as "The Hero", if he has a LTCH he could ask the school board if he can carry in school.
Pushing forward the armed teachers movement one more step in the right direction.

If anyone knows him out there, can you find out please.

Hell, I’ll give him a Ruger LCP custom for free if anyone knows him, whether he is ever able to carry it there or not.

 

[ghuns]

First of all, HOLY ****** ****!!!!

It's a decision that only a parent can make by knowing what's going on in your kids life. Yes their will be the ones who slip through the cracks and fool everyone but I think those are few and far between.

Parents miss the signs all the time. Whether it's a kid who ODs on narcotics or one who shoots up a school. I can't tell you the number of parents I've met who rave about their superstar of a kid and then I meet the kid and couldn't understand how this could be the person they were talking about.

We all have a blind spot where our kids are concerned, some MUCH larger than others. And kids have excelled for centuries at keeping mom and dad in the dark.

 

[Dead Duck]

First of all, HOLY ****** ****!!!!



Parents miss the signs all the time. Whether it's a kid who ODs on narcotics or one who shoots up a school. I can't tell you the number of parents I've met who rave about their superstar of a kid and then I meet the kid and couldn't understand how this could be the person they were talking about.

We all have a blind spot where our kids are concerned, some MUCH larger than others. And kids have excelled for centuries at keeping mom and dad in the dark.

Kids are devious little ****ers.
At least I was. I knew what was in every cupboard, drawer, closet, bookcase, dresser, cabinet, desk, secret drawers and hidden nooks of my entire house while growing up. Locked or not. And we has a big house. I was a very curious little boy. (with girls too) So ya, if there were guns (or candy) in my house, I would know about it. I was taught not to touch guns without an adult and in that respect I wouldn't have but my friends and their family's guns were a whole another matter.

 

[Bigtanker]

First of all, HOLY ****** ****!!!!



Parents miss the signs all the time. Whether it's a kid who ODs on narcotics or one who shoots up a school. I can't tell you the number of parents I've met who rave about their superstar of a kid and then I meet the kid and couldn't understand how this could be the person they were talking about.

We all have a blind spot where our kids are concerned, some MUCH larger than others. And kids have excelled for centuries at keeping mom and dad in the dark.

Kids are devious little ****ers.
At least I was. I knew what was in every cupboard, drawer, closet, bookcase, dresser, cabinet, desk, secret drawers and hidden nooks of my entire house while growing up. Locked or not. And we has a big house. I was a very curious little boy. (with girls too) So ya, if there were guns (or candy) in my house, I would know about it. I was taught not to touch guns without an adult and in that respect I wouldn't have but my friends and their family's guns were a whole another matter.

I agree with both of you. Like the duck said, I knew just about where everything was. And I got my butt whooped for getting into things I knew I wasn't supposed to be in. I hid things from my parents. I was eventually found out.

But playing the odds, chances are that a parent not keeping an eye out for their kids, talking to them about things that are going on in their life, they won't turn out to do something terrible.

 

[nakinate]

Interesting that you gents read so much into my simple questions, without providing any answers to those questions.

I can’t give you answers I don’t have. I’m just pointing out that it’s a very complex issue.

 

[bgcatty]

So, you keep your guns locked away from teens? My parents NEVER owned a gun safe, yet I managed not to kill anyone throughout my high school years? Do you deny your kids the right to self defense when you’re not home, or are you a helicopter parent who wouldn’t dare leave 13 year old “Johnny” home alone?

Let me clarify the position. I kept my firearms locked and secured in safes always while the kids were growing up. As a concerned and involved parent I started training my kids about firearms towards the middle-end of elementary school. We went to the ranges often and I taught them the four rules and then some. I spent innumerable weekends at the range teaching them gun safety and marksmanship. My wife and I instilled in them respect, treat people how you would want to be treated. After all the training and teaching they had access to self defense weapons in their teens that I kept in the house. I taught them as much as possible about the rules of self defense and weapons. I never worried about them and firearms. They have their LTCH permits. My kids did not play violent killing video games. They were not on psychotropic drugs. They did not do illicit drugs. They knew how to be respectful and say things like yes sir, yes ma’am, thank you and please and hold the door for ladies and girls. They were always in the company of our adult friends and learned how to conduct themselves as young gentlemen. They both graduated from great universities and are now young professionals on their own and getting on in life with great careers in front of them. It’s called involved parenting and teaching kids to do the right thing always. I’ll put my two kids up against anyone’s kids with this stuff in mind. This is what it’s all about. Period!

 

[Tanfodude]

Let me clarify the position. I kept my firearms locked and secured in safes always while the kids were growing up. As a concerned and involved parent I started training my kids about firearms towards the middle-end of elementary school. We went to the ranges often and I taught them the four rules and then some. I spent innumerable weekends at the range teaching them gun safety and marksmanship. My wife and I instilled in them respect, treat people how you would want to be treated. After all the training and teaching they had access to self defense weapons in their teens that I kept in the house. I taught them as much as possible about the rules of self defense and weapons. I never worried about them and firearms. They have their LTCH permits. My kids did not play violent killing video games. They were not on psychotropic drugs. They did not do illicit drugs. They knew how to be respectful and say things like yes sir, yes ma’am, thank you and please and hold the door for ladies and girls. They were always in the company of our adult friends and learned how to conduct themselves as young gentlemen. They both graduated from great universities and are now young professionals on their own and getting on in life with great careers in front of them. It’s called involved parenting and teaching kids to do the right thing always. I’ll put my two kids up against anyone’s kids with this stuff in mind. This is what it’s all about. Period!

Growing up, my friends and classmates have player these types of games, hell, I even love gore movies. We knew it's just fiction. Even on gore websites that's based on real people, I can watch those but yet, I don't have those urge to do harm. I watched violent movies in the 80's growing up, played toy guns that looked real, and so did my friends. Yet, none of us have these urges that these mass murderers have.

One factor that I noticed that is a factor, and I could be wrong, is the social isolation. Even though I came from a poor country and grew up in a slum area, I always had interaction with people and other kids. I think, here in US, that isolation could be a factor to some of these kids struggle and the lack of actual parenting.

 

[churchmouse]

First of all, HOLY ****** ****!!!!



Parents miss the signs all the time. Whether it's a kid who ODs on narcotics or one who shoots up a school. I can't tell you the number of parents I've met who rave about their superstar of a kid and then I meet the kid and couldn't understand how this could be the person they were talking about.

We all have a blind spot where our kids are concerned, some MUCH larger than others. And kids have excelled for centuries at keeping mom and dad in the dark.

It is actually Parental denial. We all suffer from this to varying degrees. All of us. The spouse and I have had many discussions about this.
Some people are completely blind when it comes to the little darlings.